The Double Standard Exemplified

[Destino]

Note to self. Never introduce teenage daughter to Destino.

I wouldn't touch a teen... hell I don't even like 18 and 19 year olds, which seem to be all the rage in the adult industry. Clearly there are more pervs out there looking for the "young" look then people care to think about. I am not one of them

Seriously though, your second part is the reason that they are a victim. They don't know what's best for them and someone with more experience can take advantage of them and manipulate them.

Right because that knowledge is suddenly delivered to you at 18. It travels down from the heavens on a ray of sunshine.

I found that I matured in stages linked to what I was doing more then how many years I had been alive. You take a big leap when you leave for college, another when you get out, and the biggest when you go out on your own and make a life for yourself. I imagine there are more stages but that's the extent I've experienced.

[panel]

sometimes double standards are OK, I can't explain it, but I am fine with female teacher getting off on charges of sex with students, but not ok with the men getting away.

Just makes sense to me.

[Destino]

sometimes double standards are OK, I can't explain it, but I am fine with female teacher getting off on charges of sex with students, but not ok with the men getting away.

Just makes sense to me.

Pure sexism... and I completely agree. Terrible but it is what it is.

[LegionOfDoom]

He had sex under the roof of the house with the parents in the other room. He knew what he was doing.

He got caught. But the girl made a decision to be with him. He deserves to do the time but not a maxed out term for sentencing.

[Zguy28]

What about that woman Bonnie Sue Davis who alleged had sex with two boys, 14 & 15 years old in Virginia?

EDIT: Just found this after much searching.

Teacher pleads to misdemeanors

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/092006/09232006/223700

A former Spotsylvania County high school teacher pleaded guilty yesterday to two misdemeanors involving sexual relations with teenage students.

Bonnie Sue Davis, 36, who used to teach at Courtland High School but has since resigned, entered an Alford plea yesterday in Spotsylvania Circuit Court to two misdemeanor counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

The Alford plea means Davis acknowledges that the prosecution has enough evidence for a conviction, but that she doesn't admit guilt.

A Courtland student who was 15 at the time told detectives that he had sex with Davis on several occasions during the 2005-2006 school year. A 14-year-old Courtland student told investigators that he kissed Davis, who taught math to both of the teens.

Davis denied having any sexual relationship with either boy. In a written statement, defense attorney Peter Greenspun said she took the plea agreement because it was in her best interests.

Davis, who was taken to jail after her arrest earlier this year, will not serve any additional time under the terms of the plea. She got a 12-month suspended jail sentence.

Davis will no longer be allowed to teach in any public school in Virginia, under the terms of the plea agreement. She could teach somewhere outside the state or at a private school in Virginia, but she said after court that she doesn't intend to return to the classroom.

According to prosecution evidence, the 14-year-old's mother found her son and Davis together in a dark bedroom the evening of this past Feb. 10. Her son was on a bed, and Davis was on a couch. Davis reportedly told the boy's mother that she was "just checking on" the 14-year-old. The mother and son then left. The boy later told detectives that Davis had been wearing nothing but a sweatshirt and socks in the room.

The 15-year-old told detectives that he and Davis had started flirting with each other at school. That led to a sexual relationship, according to prosecution evidence. The 15-year-old told police that he had sex with Davis the night that the 14-year-old's mother found her son in the bedroom with the teacher. He was able to accurately describe tattoos that Davis had on her body.

Greenspun submitted paperwork to the court giving Davis' side of the story. The teacher "adamantly denies engaging in any sexual conduct or behavior" with the students.

According to the paperwork, Davis' tattoos were well known to the Courtland High School community because students had once had a scavenger hunt in which one of the questions asked them to identify the teacher with "eight piercings and four tattoos." That teacher was Davis.

[China]

If you want to see what female teachers get for these types of crimes, here is a list of them (w/ pics) with details of their crimes/status.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53859

Of note, even the judges acknowlegde the double standard:

Cameo Patch, 29: Substitute teacher at Tooele High School in Tooele, Utah, arrested for allegedly performing oral sex on a 17-year-old male student. The sexual activity was allegedly consensual, and reportedly took place off school grounds after the pair had exchanged phone numbers in a restaurant. In November 2006, Patch was sentenced to no jail time, despite comments from the judge that a man would have likely gone to prison.

[Ghost of]

I had completely forgotten about this thread after I posted it. Guess my mind and heart's been on other things recently

Anyways, I still stand by what I said. I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve SOME punishment but the idea that he even faces 40 years while America laughs or even PITIES these women is ridiculous. Roman women would pay to have sex with the top gladiators, women are capable of lasciviousness no less than a man. You're telling me the MULTITUDES of women getting caught and getting off (WITHOUT punishment, you gutter-minded sons o' bs!) are all so different from this guy? They see young men/boys they can easily please, no strings (generally) and use their position of closeness and the allure of authority to obtain sex. It's what this guy did.

As for the idea that there SHOULD be a double standard when it comes to this? Nah. Because that then extends to murder sentences and all manner of other crimes. Women simply aren't punished as men are and that is NOT just the way it should be. Unless women are willing to have the vote stripped from them or take a step down the social status/power/privilege ladder, which I doubt (and do not propose, of course.)

If I were a man facing these charges, I would appeal based on 14th amendment grounds. Either we are equal before the law or we are not. If a judge actually SAYS that a man would have gone to jail for the same offense, then the courts/legislatures/etc are violating the Constituion, let alone ethics and morality.

[Art]

I've said before in these cases and I'll say again, if one of my daughter's gets taken advantage of by an older man, I'll be doing the jail time. If my son -- one I don't yet have -- bangs the hottie teacher, I'll be holding a kegger. There isn't a "double" standard. There's a difference between men and women.

Honest.

I'd also let my son have a beer with me when he's a teenager. I'd probably let my daughter have a glass of wine with me. I was at Toys R Us today buying my daughter her first bike. She wanted the "pink one". She got that one. My boy could want that one too, and would be denied, as another couple with a boy who wanted the same bike denied him. When you guys figure out there's also a difference in how sexual relationships are taught and handled between sexes, you might realize there'll be a difference in how sex with minors is handled.

[Ghost of]

There is a difference between men and women but equality before the law should not be one of them. Just as there may be a difference in physical strength or what-have-you but they shouldn't have different standards for a passing score for the military, police or fire department.

Also, what struck me about some of these cases is that this guy is 22 and looks like the girls were 16 and up. A generation, maybe two ago, this would not have been out of the ordinary.

IN FACT, it's not out of the ordinary pretty much most of the world, and no I'm not defending marrying off a 12 year old girl to a 30 year old man but 22 and 16-17? Please. That's one year outside of that buffer they establish in some states. be lucky it's not Canada because the age limit is 14.

If a 14-17 year old can be held responsible for murder, something that is outside the norm of the average human being (let alone young person's) normal thinking and state of mind, then how can they not be held responsible for their decision to engage in something that IS quite normal for someone their age and often, when it occurs, shows a great deal of manipulation and deception by the 'victim.'

I believe that a fake ID being given would be a valid defense for a man on trial for statutory or improper contact with a minor. So, that's it? It's a crime if he knows and not a crime if he doesn't? It's either wrong or it isnt. In the case of the deception, we are holding the girl responsible for her actions (though not criminally, of course) by not charging the man. But if there is no ID deception but the girl lies about her age or the man is a year outside of the buffer, all of a sudden it's a great moral transgression?

is a 21-22 year old man MORE guilty than a 37 year old female teacher who has a family, children and should know (at least by THAT age) a lot better? That seems absurd on its face.

EDIT: You never explained how this double standard when it comes to a sexual matter seems REMARKABLY similar to the double standards when it comes to sentencing for criminal infractions, women getting pregnant JUST in TIME for combat (and not facing charges,) divorce court and child custody cases. Seems to me if it exists in favor of women in all these other areas, then the "sex is different with men and women" defense would not seem credible as an explanation.

[Art]

Women and children first, Ghost.

That is our society. Period. Deal with it. The ship is sinking and it's women and children we are trained as a society and as men to SAVE. To PROTECT. You know this. So, don't be surprised when an adult male screws a minor child in this country that HE is seen as a predator to prey but an adult woman who screws a minor child in this country is seen differently.

Mostly men ARE the predator and women ARE the prey sexually. We have the outtie. They have to willingly surrender. As a white man, I understand the absurd nature of a society that ever turns against us, treating us differently in negative ways, but, as a MAN I value the premise I have some responsibility to protect women and children in this society and when another man violates that, we seek to punish him more harshly because he deserves it more.

Now, I don't disagree with as to sexual laws in this country. Our enlightened Canadian brothers give the age of consent at 14. I also question the law holding a man responsible if he can somewhat reasonably be said to not be certain as to the age of the person he's with. Years ago I was actually in a situation where I can be said not to have known the age of someone until a few nights into the relationship. When I found out, I stopped.

In my case, it would have been unlikely the courts would have seen me as a threat to minors because the manner of our meeting was through someone of age, in a place you had to be of age, in a situation that was not one I would reasonably have thought to question. Here, the story is a tad different. You have a guy who's at a high school. He knows the score. And he's sneaking into her basement. Again, he knows the score.

America, as a society, still holds pretty conservatively around sexual things. I was listening to a Christian Bale interview about American Psycho and he said a sex scene in the movie gave it an NC-17 rating so it was cut for R and he offered it struck him as odd America was the only country to see a different movie and how it wasn't the violence that anyone objected to, but the sex. Typically American he said.

And it is.

We are far more uptight about sex than just about any other country.

But, as our social norms around appropriate sexual behavior break down, that'll change. In a generation, the country will further redefine its norms in a way that may not be all that good an idea. But, that's never stopped us before from "evolving".