Champ Bailey vs. Clinton Portis

[CM916]

YES! For the thousandth time! That is probably the best trade we have made over the last three years.

2005 Redskins without Portis: 7-9, maybe

I still love Champ but we probably would have lost him in the long run anyway. He didn't want to be here anymore and he was looking to make ridiculous money.

[PA Skin Fan]

For the millionth time, YES!

I never liked Roland, even when he was here. I considered him overrated and not truly a shut-down corner. Yes, he is better now. But we got an elite back who when he has a bad season only rushes for 1,200 yards when not injured, who is the heart and soul of our team, and got us to the playoffs!

What did Roland ever do for the defense and the Redskins. A typical me-first player, he was always putting up stats while the defense as a whole was struggling and the team was a losing team.

The only thing I wish we didn't do was give away the 2nd round pick. We probably could have done better here, but then again, was it because everyone knew Bailey was leaving anyway??

[TheU2689]

Winning without the best doesn't justify that it was the right thing to do. If your team wins without a top player. Kudos. But that doesn't mean that player wasn't needed or preferred. The Patriots won Superbowls with and without Ty Law. Didn't mean he wasn't needed.

The Skins received Portis and Springs. 18 mill and 10 mill respectively. Plus a 2nd rd pick. Well lets say they keep Champ at 18 mill. Lets say they take a RB with the 2nd pick. Say Tatum Bell(Not Portis but respectable) The extra 10 mill they woulda had could've kept Smoot and Antonio Pierce around because they would've had more cash to play with. Now you possibly could've had Smoot, Champ, Bell and Pierce. Which means the Skins would've never taken Carlos Rogers and maybe would've drafted and young D-lineman which they desperately need to me. Just a thought. They wanted a so called quick fix though.

yeah i understand your point in it as well. Yes Champ would have probably helped us make one more step closer to the Super Bowl last season, but i look at it as if we didnt have Clinton Portis we wouldnt have gone as far as we did that year. I understand that Bailey is an AMAZING Corner back, but the thing is, you can throw away from him, you cant run away from Clinton Portis, you have to tackle the man. But i understand your point as well. But at the same time the trade HAD to happen, because there was no way that Champ was gonna come back here, whether we traded him or not. He wanted out, so we got a top 5 running back in the process, and a leader of our offense. But definantly i understand what you are sayin to tho.

[thespaniard]

Shouldn't this be a poll?

[Chachie]

Champ would have left anyway, if that rumor was true about his love life

What rumor?

I heart Clinton Portis.

[BDOG510]

No. Terrible move.

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

I was so pleased to see Fred Smoot re-join the Redskins. But here is the question.....If you had it to do all over again would you still make the Bailey/ Portis trade?

Seriously, how many times does this question need to come up? It's been done for years now, why bother?

[GhostRider]

I think we got the best player we could, since Bailey wasn't going to play here anymore. The real problem was picking Lavar for the big contract extension over Bailey earlier in the year. The Redskins choose to give a huge contract to an overrated linebacker and let the best cornerback in the league go. One of many poor management descisions.

[TheU2689]

I think we got the best player we could, since Bailey wasn't going to play here anymore. The real problem was picking Lavar for the big contract extension over Bailey earlier in the year. The Redskins choose to give a huge contract to an overrated linebacker and let the best cornerback in the league go. One of many poor management descisions.

Yeah agreed to that, Champ was really P.O'ed when he found out we gave Lavar a monster contract, and then we didnt have the money to pay him. But seriously i would have rather of kept Champ this way, and traded Lavar for Portis. That would have been ideal.

[JRAB]

The real problem was picking Lavar for the big contract extension over Bailey earlier in the year. The Redskins choose to give a huge contract to an overrated linebacker and let the best cornerback in the league go. One of many poor management descisions.

Exactly!

I've said it a million times... a good CB is much more difficult to find than a good OLB in a 4-3 defense. Linebackers in a 4-3 are nearly a dime-a-dozen and shutdown corners are a rare commodity. Any time you can secure a shut down corner over a LB, I think you should do it and replace the LB.

Just my two cents.

As for the trade... No, I wouldn't have done it. Shutdown corners are rare in the NFL and to let one go in his prime for a good RB should never happen. RB's are too easy to find, plus their careers are usually shorter than CB's.

[NewCliche21]

Exactly!

I've said it a million times... a good CB is much more difficult to find than a good OLB in a 4-3 defense. Linebackers in a 4-3 are nearly a dime-a-dozen and shutdown corners are a rare commodity. Any time you can secure a shut down corner over a LB, I think you should do it and replace the LB.

Just my two cents.

As for the trade... No, I wouldn't have done it. Shutdown corners are rare in the NFL and to let one go in his prime for a good RB should never happen. RB's are too easy to find, plus their careers are usually shorter than CB's.

Good? In his career, Portis's YPC is only behind Jim Brown and Barry Sanders of people who've played 50+ games. He's rarely hurt, he's a team leader, and he's un-effing-believable on the field. With our end of the season line and a healthy Portis, he would've had 1700-1800 easy.

Bailey was wonderful, but not in the locker room. A team is never built on a cornerback, it is ALWAYS built on a QB/RB/WR.

[DCMONEY]

yeah i understand your point in it as well. Yes Champ would have probably helped us make one more step closer to the Super Bowl last season, but i look at it as if we didnt have Clinton Portis we wouldnt have gone as far as we did that year. I understand that Bailey is an AMAZING Corner back, but the thing is, you can throw away from him, you cant run away from Clinton Portis, you have to tackle the man. But i understand your point as well. But at the same time the trade HAD to happen, because there was no way that Champ was gonna come back here, whether we traded him or not. He wanted out, so we got a top 5 running back in the process, and a leader of our offense. But definantly i understand what you are sayin to tho.

The Skins brass put that out there that Champ wanted out. No one on this forum can say that Champ wanted out no matter what because once again the Skins never ever offered what Denver offered. Champ had problems with the constant changes but don't get it twisted, the 4.5 million more that the Broncos offered was the nail in the coffin.

[CaptChaos86]

Thats a big YES!!! Portis has something special that the redskins havent had at the running back position in awhile. He adds character to the team and is a great player. I dont miss Champ Bailey at all. And now with Smoot back it makes it even better.

[SnyderMustGo]

This was a horrible trade.

Portis for a 2nd rounder would have fair.

Bailey for two 1sts rounders would have fair.

By that metric, we traded 2 1sts and a 2nd for a 2nd. We got fleeced.

Everyone kept saying that Champ wanted to leave. Fine. If he has to leave, then get value for him. We should have traded from draft picks. If Sean Gilbert and Joey Galloway were worth 2 1st rounders, then Champ Bailey surely the hell was. But instead of getting value for Bailey, we used Bailey basically as a throw-in to a trade for Portis who we then gave all the money in the world to. Portis is only worth a 2nd rounder (see S. Alexander, E. James, etc.). Yet we gave a 2nd rounder, which should have been enough for Portis, and threw in someone who should have netted us at least a 1st rounder.

What a horrible, horrible trade. If Bailey had to leave, we should have got something for him instead of nothing.

[Cliffmark1]

I liked Bailey but after seeing Green, he just didn't seem all that impressive to me. Green was still better than him in his late thirties... (Don't get me wrong this year I was missing both of them.)

Portis broke away for a touchdown his first (?) regular season play. Call it what you want but I think that says alot.

[laurent]

My biggest complaint in regards to the trade is that Gibbs' didn't fully know the personnel on his team before making the deal. In my opinion, if Gibbs' knew that Betts could potentially carry the load as the #1 back, I don't think he makes that deal. However, from everything he's said in the past, he was told (don't ask me by who) that Betts was mostly a 3rd down back and not much more than that. As far as Bailey not wanting to play in Washington anymore, I don't buy it. 99% of that talk is just posturing for bigger money. I'm sure if Snyder was willing to pony up, he would have gladly signed on.

That in my book has been the biggest problem with Gibbs tenure so far. He came in wanted too much too soon. I would have liked to see Gibbs come in, work with what he has and then make his adjustments the following year.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

In a Heartbeat.... Champ is not as dynamic of a player as Portis. This about it Portis was more of a use to us then champ and we did get a very replace in shawn springs

[SnyderMustGo]

I cry when people talk about how awesome Portis has done for us (he set a team record!!). His ability is way, way over-hyped by our fans. His worth is way over-stated. If you look at what he has produced since he has been here, you will see he is not a top 5 back. You will see he is not worth a lot. You will see how replaceable he is.

Here are Portis' stats:

2004 - 1315 yards

2005 - 1516 yards

2006 - 523 yards

Here are the leaders in the league last years:

1. LT - 1815

2. LJ - 1789

3. Gore - 1695

4. Tiki - 1662

5. S. Jackson - 1528

6. Willie Parker - 1494

7. Rudi Johnson -1309

So Porits' OMG RECORD SETTTING!!1! year would have been #6 in rushing last year.

But look what Portis has done since he got here.

Of course he has less yards than LT, LJ (who only played in 3 games in 2004), Edge James and S. Alexander over that time period.

Here are Tiki Barber's numbers of the last 3 years:

2004 - 1518

2005 - 1860

2006 - 1662

So in the last 3 years, Tiki's worst season is better than Portis' best.

Want more?

The Bills can't find anyone willing to give anything for Willis McGahee this off-season. Apparently he can be had for 3rd round pick.

Guess who has more yards over the last 3 seasons despite being injured last year? That's right, Willis McGahee has more yards over the last 3 years than Portis. Over the last 3 years, McGahee has 3,365 yards. Portis: 3,354. So "worth a 3rd rounder McGahee" has more yards than "worth the best CB in football plus a 2nd rounder Portis."

More?

- Thomas Jones has more yards over the last three years than Portis (and Jones has been injured as well).

- Over the last 3 years, Portis, Mr. Record Breaker and supposedly top 3 running back has a whopping 120 yards more than Reuben freaking Droughns.

- Over the last 3 years, Rudi Johnson has almost 1,000 yards more than Portis.

- Little Warrick Dunn has more yards than Portis over the last 3 years.

- Corey Dillon, who has started one less game than Portis over the last 3 years is less than 100 yards behind him.

- S. Jackson, who only played in 3 games in 2004, is only 100 yards behind C. Portis over the last 3 years.

- Take off last season when he didn't play a game, and Curtis Martin had 400 more yards over that 3 year period than C. Portis did.

- Though he played only 1 game in 2005, Frank Gore has 264 more yards than Portis in the last 2 years. (FG: 17 games, 2303 yards; C.P. 23 games, 2039)

So our fans can applaud that "record-setting" year that Portis got since we have him. But one can make the feasible case that over the last 3 years, Portis is not in the top 10 RBs in the league in terms of production.

In no particular order, these 10 have been more productive over the last 3 years (and most of them have been injured, too).

1. LT

2. LJ

3. S.A.

4. E.J

5. T.B.

6. W.M.

7. T.J.

8. S.J.

9. W.D.

10. C.D.

____

Quite simply, Portis hasn't been worth it. We should have done everything we could to keep Champ because he is great and would have made the franchise proud. Failing that, we should have tried to get a couple high draft picks for him (2 1sts or a 1st+2nd... or even 2nds would have been better). It was a horrible pick. We could have replaced Portis' production with Betts or one of the high picks we got for Bailey, and we would have kept our own 2nd plus the other high pick we got for Bailey.

[Skins4481]

Winning without the best doesn't justify that it was the right thing to do. If your team wins without a top player. Kudos. But that doesn't mean that player wasn't needed or preferred. The Patriots won Superbowls with and without Ty Law. Didn't mean he wasn't needed.

The Skins received Portis and Springs. 18 mill and 10 mill respectively. Plus a 2nd rd pick. Well lets say they keep Champ at 18 mill. Lets say they take a RB with the 2nd pick. Say Tatum Bell(Not Portis but respectable) The extra 10 mill they woulda had could've kept Smoot and Antonio Pierce around because they would've had more cash to play with. Now you possibly could've had Smoot, Champ, Bell and Pierce. Which means the Skins would've never taken Carlos Rogers and maybe would've drafted and young D-lineman which they desperately need to me. Just a thought. They wanted a so called quick fix though.

When the Patriots won WITHOUT Law, that showed that he WASN"T NEEDED. When the Skins went to the playoffs WITHOUT Champ, that showed he wasn't NEEDED. The ultimate goal in the NFL is to win. To go to the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. When a team shows that they are capable of accomplishing these tasks without player X, they prove that he wasn't needed.

[Atlass]

Not that this topic hasn't been discussed in one of the other CP/Bailey threads but Champ isn't the best corner in the league and if you talk to Denver fans they'll tell you that he's good but has a tendency to get burned on the regular. Walt Harris went to the Pro Bowl but was average for us. It depends on the scheme, the division you're in and so many other variables to adequately assess overall talent. Walt having the year he had probably had nothing to do with the NFC West being an atrocious division. :doh:

Again, Champ is one of the top Corners in the league but to say he's the best is a stretch IMO. CP is one of the top RB's in the league, the best not yet but don't be suprised if he doesn't rise to the top when 100% healthy and Al's had time to work with him.

Dude what Bronco fans have you been talking too??

Bailey hasn't been burned in 2 years. He was hardly thrown at last year and he led the league with 10 ints. The year before he was personally responsible for 3 Denver wins. IMO He is the best defensive player in the NFL. Not only is he a shut down corner but he is the only shutdown corner in the NFL today.

As far as Bailey not wanting to play for the Redskins.. Well, if they would have paid him like the Broncos did then he would have stayed.

I hope Denver keeps Bly. Denver would have a very good secondary then with Foxworth back at nickle.

[Atlass]

I still love Champ but we probably would have lost him in the long run anyway. He didn't want to be here anymore and he was looking to make ridiculous money.

Washington didn't sign Champ because he wanted ridiculous money but yet then they make Portis the highest paid RB in the NFL which he will be long retired before he see the end of that contract.

Being a Bronco fan I just fell in love with Champ's game, he is also a team leader and role model to the younger CBs on the team. Darrent Williams and Foxworth just idolized the guy. He has been worth every penny of what Denver has paid him. Portis was always injury proned in Denver and I think Shanny knew that he might fade fast once he started getting banged up.

You will not find one Bronco fan that would not want the trade.

[Atlass]

Good? In his career, Portis's YPC is only behind Jim Brown and Barry Sanders of people who've played 50+ games.

That is only if you consider his stats of his first two years in Denver's system. Since he came to Washington his Ave. yards per carry isn't nearly as impressive.

[ross3909]

Baily would have been nice to have, especially this last year but in 05 I would have taken Portis and in 04 I would have definetly taken Portis, Champ was stinking up the joint. Who knows what we will be saying at the end of this year about who got the better of the deal. The bottom line is, Baily wanted out and we did not have an option to keep him.

[Atlass]

The bottom line is, Baily wanted out and we did not have an option to keep him.

That's hog wash. If Washington would have given him the contract Denver gave him he would styayed. It's always about the money.