How the Skins can create Cap Space Updated #3

[D-Day]

I have decided to review my list below and update it as players are released to show the estemed members of ES the moves that can still be made and the space those moves will create.

All numbers taken from this link

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Sal...0-%20Detail.htm

Feb 26th 6.053 mil under the cap - Thought to be the result of prorating the Roster or Other Bonus money owed this year, can be done without player approval or restructure, cutting Vincent, and through the restructures of Jansen and Thrash.

MOVES ALREADY MADE

Brunnel

EXPECTED

- Expect to see a salary reduction, I would hope he would go down to the going rate for backups (1 mil) but trying to give the low side for the team I will say 2.5 mil salary for next year is probable. 3.7 mil saved

ACTUAL

-Restructured with a salary cut and saved us 3.2 mil( Not confirmed as the actual details have not been released could be more or less )

:applause: :applause: :applause:

FAURIA

EXPECTED

-cut and save 1 mil

ACTUAL

-CUT = savings 1 mil :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Duckett

Released = savings .700

So far we have saved 6.053 (starting point)

+ 4.9 mil already saved

Total CAP ROOM AVAILABLE S FAR = 10.953

Signings to date

Frost = 850 K tender - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .565 mil

Pucillo = .530 vet min - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .245 mil

Signings so far = .810 mil additional charges to this years cap #

CURRENT CAP SPACE = 10.043 MIL

NOW LETS LOOK AT MOVES THAT CAN STILL BE MADE

Other possible moves

Hall = 1.5 mil savings -PROBABLE

Todd Collins = Make him a coach and save 1.025 mil -NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE

Daniels = Production does not match Contract = 1.4 mil (If roster bonus was paid and prorated - If not then save 1.9 mil)

Patten - Cut and Save .725 mil (1.762 if cut after June 1st) - NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE

Salavea - If we get another DT through FA or the Draft = .720

Wynn = 4th DE not worth the cost = 2 mil Savings

STILL MAKE ADDITIONAL CAP SAVINGS OF 7.37

Probable additional deals to be made

Springs - Talk out of redskins park is he is wanted to take a pay cut to make him on par for the Safety Position. He will probably be gone and I would think they will make him a June 1st cut to save around 4 - 4.5 mil

Other possible restructures - Taking current salary and reducing it to 1 mil and converting the rest to bonus over the life of the contract. (conservative estimates) - personally I wouldnt do any of these due to age and all of these players COULD be cutable after this year for net cap savings or small hits.

Washington - 2 mil

Griff - 2.2 mil

Thomas - 2.25 mil

Other possible restructures can save about 6.5 mil

Without the other Possible restructures the skins can be

10.56 (currently under)

7.37 MIL (cuts)

4 - 4.5 (Probable Moves)

------------------------------

We can realistically be about 21.93 mil under the cap if the above moves are done without the restructures of Washington, Griff, and Thomas.

****ORIGINAL PREDICTION ****Grand total of 23.245 mil to 25.725 mil under the cap or 29.545 - 32.250 mil under if all possible or conceivable restructures are done.

Thanks for reading this long thread.

The :applause: are my ratings of what I think of the actual moves 1-5.

*Update #1 - Updated MB's contract and Frosts and fixing the signings cap hit for the rule of 51.

*Update #2 - Updated to add TJ Duckett as a probable cut since he will probably void his last year and currently ESPN has him listed as released.

*Update #3 - More evidence from JLC of MB new contract and confirmation of Ducketts release.

****If any of my new numbers are wrong or if I miss a signing/restructure/ or release please inform me so that I can edit and correct. I want this to not be a pissing contest between my numbers are better then yours but I want this to be as accurate as possible for my own and other board members peace of mind and reference*******

[TheGift]

You should be in the FO.

[Zen-like Todd]

You may be neglecting the rule of 51 in some of these signings, not that it makes a major difference.

[Skin Patrol]

My brief comments, good work on everything.

I don't think Phillip Daniels will ultimately be cut, especially if we pickup a DT in the draft. If you want to say that Daniels will be cut it's unlikely that Salave'a will be; I view it as an either/or kind of thing. Come to think of it, I'd say Boschetti is the more likely casualty at DT.

I do not think Washington or Griffin or Thomas will renegotiate/restructure.

[D-Day]

You may be neglecting the rule of 51 in some of these signings, not that it makes a major difference.

I am I will anotate that thanks and I am also correcting MB new numbers and Frosts tender thanks to Sean Taylor is God.

[D-Day]

My brief comments, good work on everything.

I don't think Phillip Daniels will ultimately be cut, especially if we pickup a DT in the draft. If you want to say that Daniels will be cut it's unlikely that Salave'a will be; I view it as an either/or kind of thing. Come to think of it, I'd say Boschetti is the more likely casualty at DT.

I do not think Washington or Griffin or Thomas will renegotiate/restructure.

I hope they don't that is why I have them as possible restructures, it was my intention to show what COULD be done. That is why they are also not in my final possible figures.

[fdarugar]

Great post, lets cut some old bums and sign some middle aged free agents...I'm down like a clown charlie brown.

[Skin Patrol]

By my count we need to replace about 8-11 players with the 17M remaining (per you, great work again). A starting CB to replace Springs will cost us 5-9M, if we get Fletcher I think it will be 4-7M, so that's 9-16M taken up by two. We need to fit 6-9 players on the team with the remaining money.

[CapitalDefense]

21 million for what? Oh so that Joe Gibbs and company can go on yet another FA shopping spree that will make us one game better next year. Oh wait, we need to be 6 games better even to qualify for the playoffs, is Peyton Manning avalible? If not, the rest of the FA's are not going to make us 6 games better.

The only FA's ever to make a huge impact in this league after going to another team were Primetime, in his prime, and The Priest, may he rest in peace.

Can't wait, what, a 32 year old MLB is the answer to our defensive woes, oh ok.

We could blitz 8 and never sniff a sack last year but the 32 year old will get there.

I hate you Daniel Snyder, you have destroyed my football team, and you are getting ready to do it again in 2 days!

[TaylorPickSix]

Awesome. Great job man.

[D-Day]

21 million for what? Oh so that Joe Gibbs and company can go on yet another FA shopping spree that will make us one game better next year. Oh wait, we need to be 6 games better even to qualify for the playoffs, is Peyton Manning avalible? If not, the rest of the FA's are not going to make us 6 games better.

The only FA's ever to make a huge impact in this league after going to another team were Primetime, in his prime, and The Priest, may he rest in peace.

Can't wait, what, a 32 year old MLB is the answer to our defensive woes, oh ok.

We could blitz 8 and never sniff a sack last year but the 32 year old will get there.

I hate you Daniel Snyder, you have destroyed my football team, and you are getting ready to do it again in 2 days!

I am making no claims as to what to do with the money,

So by your logic we should keep the 32 year old bench warmers making starting pay on the team, thats a great way to improve. I am not saying what to do with the money, I am trying to help end the rampant "we don't have the money for this and that crap" that is believed by most because of what the papers say. calm down and if the skins give you that much heartache maybe you should just log off and go play golf or something. It is not good for your health.

[Zen-like Todd]

By my count we need to replace about 8-11 players with the 17M remaining (per you, great work again). A starting CB to replace Springs will cost us 5-9M, if we get Fletcher I think it will be 4-7M, so that's 9-16M taken up by two. We need to fit 6-9 players on the team with the remaining money.

Signing bonuses prorations are 6 years the last time I checked. We could float an 18 million dollar signing bonus to Clements. Combined with a vet minimum first year salary, that's under 4 million.

If we gave Fletcher an 8M SB, that's only a prorated hit of 1.333 million. With a vet min salary, it's a total hit of just over 2 million.

A total of 6 million taken up for the two biggest FA acquisitions of the offseason were those moves to come to pass.

In short, exchanging Springs (via cut) for Clements costs us just about nothing this year, and Fletcher only 2 million.

[freeseantaylor2k6]

Great post, I had no idea we were within striking distance of having 20 million dollars in cap room. Maybe signing Nate Clements isn't as far fetched as it seemed...

[D-Day]

By my count we need to replace about 8-11 players with the 17M remaining (per you, great work again). A starting CB to replace Springs will cost us 5-9M, if we get Fletcher I think it will be 4-7M, so that's 9-16M taken up by two. We need to fit 6-9 players on the team with the remaining money.

You are giving the new FA's way to much. Remember as a example I like to use is the 4 fa's from last year each got 30 mil 6 year contracts to equal out to 5 mil a year.

The actual cap charges for those contracts in the first year was 1.5 mil and about 2.4 mil this year. So eventhough NC will get a average of 8 or so mil a year I expect his first year charge to be around 3.5 mil. Fletcher will probably get a contract that starts our in the first year around 2 mil.

A lot of the spots you are counting are backups and 4 th stringers so don't fret the money is there for the skins to do what they want, it all depends on what they want to do and the bidding competitions.

[Higgs44]

Great job D Day... very informative and nice to see we are "doomed" like the "experts" claim :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[PCS]

21 million for what? Oh so that Joe Gibbs and company can go on yet another FA shopping spree that will make us one game better next year. Oh wait, we need to be 6 games better even to qualify for the playoffs, is Peyton Manning avalible? If not, the rest of the FA's are not going to make us 6 games better.

The only FA's ever to make a huge impact in this league after going to another team were Primetime, in his prime, and The Priest, may he rest in peace.

Can't wait, what, a 32 year old MLB is the answer to our defensive woes, oh ok.

We could blitz 8 and never sniff a sack last year but the 32 year old will get there.

I hate you Daniel Snyder, you have destroyed my football team, and you are getting ready to do it again in 2 days!

Nothing like a ray of sunshine amongst all the doom and gloom.

[Skin Patrol]

Signing bonuses prorations are 6 years the last time I checked. We could float an 18 million dollar signing bonus to Clements. Combined with a vet minimum first year salary, that's under 4 million.

If we gave Fletcher an 8M SB, that's only a prorated hit of 1.333 million. With a vet min salary, it's a total hit of just over 2 million.

A total of 6 million taken up for the two biggest FA acquisitions of the offseason were those moves to come to pass.

In short, exchanging Springs (via cut) for Clements costs us just about nothing this year, and Fletcher only 2 million.

Wasn't talking about signing bonuses, but how much these players make per year against the cap. This would include base salary, roster bonuses, etc. In 2007 Clements will make around 8-10M and Fletcher will make (I believe) 4-7M.

[D-Day]

Wasn't talking about signing bonuses, but how much these players make per year against the cap. This would include base salary, roster bonuses, etc. In 2007 Clements will make around 8-10M and Fletcher will make (I believe) 4-7M.

No actually he is correct, you are looking at the averages of the deal say NC signs a yr 63 mil he is averaging 9 mil

The actual structure of a deal like that would put hiim around a 3.5 mil cap hit this year. That is where the bonus money proration and the "Funny Money" that the player never sees comes in.

[Skin Patrol]

You are giving the new FA's way to much. Remember as a example I like to use is the 4 fa's from last year each got 30 mil 6 year contracts to equal out to 5 mil a year.

The actual cap charges for those contracts in the first year was 1.5 mil and about 2.4 mil this year. So eventhough NC will get a average of 8 or so mil a year I expect his first year charge to be around 3.5 mil. Fletcher will probably get a contract that starts our in the first year around 2 mil.

A lot of the spots you are counting are backups and 4 th stringers so don't fret the money is there for the skins to do what they want, it all depends on what they want to do and the bidding competitions.

I hope you're right but think you're wrong. Thinking NC will go from a 9M hit a year to a 3.5M hit a year, and Fletcher will go from a 6M hit a year to a 2M hit a year is simply wishful thinking. B. Lloyd and Andre Carter were leaving town because they didn't like the situation and thought they were joining a Playoff team; they were willing to play contract games. Antwaan Randle-El was a third string WR, not a 1st string ILB.

NC and Fletcher simply aren't comparable in situation to any of those guys. NC is a higher yield player than all of them; than many of them combined. Fletcher has multiple teams going after him. The increased salary cap also increases the amount players demand, so using last year's numbers is (I think) ultimately naive.

But again, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

[Kurd Cudins]

I hope you're right but think you're wrong. Thinking NC will go from a 9M hit a year to a 3.5M hit a year, and Fletcher will go from a 6M hit a year to a 2M hit a year is simply wishful thinking. B. Lloyd and Andre Carter were leaving town because they didn't like the situation and thought they were joining a Playoff team; they were willing to play contract games. Antwaan Randle-El was a third string WR, not a 1st string ILB.

NC and Fletcher simply aren't comparable in situation to any of those guys. NC is a higher yield player than all of them; than many of them combined. Fletcher has multiple teams going after him. The increased salary cap also increases the amount players demand, so using last year's numbers is (I think) ultimately naive.

But again, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

It's not wishful thinking, it's the way contracts are structured. Big signing bonus with the vet min for the first year. The first year cap hit depends on the signing bonus and length of the contract, but D-Day's #'s are very reasonable. All of our contracts are backloaded with the notion of being restructured or cut. Players sign on for the bonus money. Just look at the structure of our recent signings and you will see that it's actually quite feasible.

edit: for the record my prediction is that Fletcher's cap hit this year will be $2.72 he will get a five year deal with a $10 million SB. Clements, if we get him would be $4.595. he would sign a seven year deal with a $24 million SB(prorated over 6)

[cmorina69]

You should be in the FO.

At this point a bunch of moneys could run our FO , like that comercial.

[D-Day]

I hope you're right but think you're wrong. Thinking NC will go from a 9M hit a year to a 3.5M hit a year, and Fletcher will go from a 6M hit a year to a 2M hit a year is simply wishful thinking. B. Lloyd and Andre Carter were leaving town because they didn't like the situation and thought they were joining a Playoff team; they were willing to play contract games. Antwaan Randle-El was a third string WR, not a 1st string ILB.

NC and Fletcher simply aren't comparable in situation to any of those guys. NC is a higher yield player than all of them; than many of them combined. Fletcher has multiple teams going after him. The increased salary cap also increases the amount players demand, so using last year's numbers is (I think) ultimately naive.

But again, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

The players get a SB the first year which is what they want, they usually always get paid the min salary for the first year. I will give a quick example to help show how a contract is usually structured.

***Contract Numbers not a indication of what I think he is worth just a example of how a large contract is actually small to the cap in the beginning********

Lets say Fletcher signs a 7 yr 42 mil bonus 6 mil Signing bonus + 4 mil Option Bonus + 4 Mil in Roster Bonus =

6 yr 42 mil with 14 mil in bonus money 10 guaranteed

yr 1 = .820 Salary + 1 mil sb (6 mil SB prorated) = 1.820 cap hit but the player gets 6.82 mil in his pocket.

yr 2 = 2.5 mil Salary + 1 mil sb = 3.5 mil cap hit but the player gets 2.5 mil in his pocket

yr 3 = 3 mil Salary + 1 mil SB + 1 mil OB (4 mil Option Bonus gets prorated over the remaining 4 yrs of his contract for a cap hit of 1 mil per year) = a cap hit of 5 mil but the player gets 7 mil in his pocket

yr 4 = 3.5 mil Salary + 1 mil SB + 1 mil OB + 1 Mil RB = 6.5 mil Salary cap hit but the player gets 4.5 mil in his pocket.

yr 5 = 4 mil Salary + 1 mil SB + 1 mil OB + 1 mil RB = 7 mil cap hit but the player gets 5 mil in his pocket.

yr 6 = 4.5 mil Salary + 1 mil SB +1 mil OB + 1 mil RB = 7.5 mil cap hit but the player gets 5.5 mil in his pocket.

yr 7 = 9.68 salary + 1 mil RB = 10.68 cap hit but the player gets 10.68 mil in his pocket.

If you look at year 7 you see the definition of "Funny Money" and the "backloaded Contract" or the money the player will never see. The last couple of years make up the difference of the average cap hits for the first couple of years. At which time the player is cut for a cap hit but it would actually save money comparable to the cap charge.

yr 1 Cap hit = 1.820 cap hit

yr 2 cap hit = 3.5 mil/cost to cut = 9 mil or cap hit of 5.5 mil

yr 3 cap hit = 5 mil/cost to cut = 7 mil or cap hit of 2 mil

yr 4 cap hit = 6.5 mil/cost to cut pre Roster bonus = 5 mil or a 1.5 mil CAP CREDIT

yr 5 cap hit = 7 mil/cost to cut pre Roster Bonus = 3 mil or 4 mil CAP CREDIT

yr 6 cap hit = 7.5 mil/cost to cut pre roster bonus = 1 mil or 6.5 mil CAP CREDIT

yr 7 cap hit = 10.68mil/cost to cut pre roster bonus = 0000000

That is why most say it is a 3 or 4 yr contract and the rest is funny money.

[Rufus T Firefly]

As for first year cap costs- It should be pointed out that last year's big 4 additions cost us about 6.2 mil in cap space last year combined.

That's on deals that averaged 4.5-5 mil per year.

[Zen-like Todd]

I hope you're right but think you're wrong. Thinking NC will go from a 9M hit a year to a 3.5M hit a year, and Fletcher will go from a 6M hit a year to a 2M hit a year is simply wishful thinking. B. Lloyd and Andre Carter were leaving town because they didn't like the situation and thought they were joining a Playoff team; they were willing to play contract games. Antwaan Randle-El was a third string WR, not a 1st string ILB.

NC and Fletcher simply aren't comparable in situation to any of those guys. NC is a higher yield player than all of them; than many of them combined. Fletcher has multiple teams going after him. The increased salary cap also increases the amount players demand, so using last year's numbers is (I think) ultimately naive.

But again, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

You're wrong, but it's not your fault. NFL contracts are nothing like NBA and MLB contracts. When you see a 10 year 125 million dollar contract in MLB, that's guaranteed, and more than likely a 12.5 million dollar a year deal. In the NFL, you have your signing bonus, your base salary, and your roster bonuses. If someone signs a 6 year 30 million dollar contract with a 10 million dollar signing bonus, you are expecting it to cost us 5 million a year every year. It doesn't. Signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract up to 6 years, so in this case it's only 1.667 per year. On top of that, in any given year you have the base salaries and various roster bonuses in the contract. First year salaries in NFL contracts are almost always minimum or near minimum levels (under 1 mill). These contracts are always constructed with higher base salaries in the tail end of the contracts, and are rarely paid out.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The players get a SB the first year which is what they want, they usually always get paid the min salary for the first year. I will give a quick example to help show how a contract is usually structured.

***Contract Numbers not a indication of what I think he is worth just a example of how a large contract is actually small to the cap in the beginning********

Lets say Fletcher signs a 7 yr 42 mil bonus 6 mil Signing bonus + 4 mil Option Bonus + 4 Mil in Roster Bonus =

6 yr 42 mil with 14 mil in bonus money 10 guaranteed

yr 1 = .820 Salary + 1 mil sb (6 mil SB prorated) = 1.820 cap hit but the player gets 6.82 mil in his pocket.

yr 2 = 2.5 mil Salary + 1 mil sb = 3.5 mil cap hit but the player gets 2.5 mil in his pocket

yr 3 = 3 mil Salary + 1 mil SB + 1 mil OB (4 mil Option Bonus gets prorated over the remaining 4 yrs of his contract for a cap hit of 1 mil per year) = a cap hit of 5 mil but the player gets 7 mil in his pocket

yr 4 = 3.5 mil Salary + 1 mil SB + 1 mil OB + 1 Mil RB = 6.5 mil Salary cap hit but the player gets 4.5 mil in his pocket.

yr 5 = 4 mil Salary + 1 mil SB + 1 mil OB + 1 mil RB = 7 mil cap hit but the player gets 5 mil in his pocket.

yr 6 = 4.5 mil Salary + 1 mil SB +1 mil OB + 1 mil RB = 7.5 mil cap hit but the player gets 5.5 mil in his pocket.

yr 7 = 9.68 salary + 1 mil RB = 10.68 cap hit but the player gets 10.68 mil in his pocket.

If you look at year 7 you see the definition of "Funny Money" and the "backloaded Contract" or the money the player will never see. The last couple of years make up the difference of the average cap hits for the first couple of years. At which time the player is cut for a cap hit but it would actually save money comparable to the cap charge.

yr 1 Cap hit = 1.820 cap hit

yr 2 cap hit = 3.5 mil/cost to cut = 9 mil or cap hit of 5.5 mil

yr 3 cap hit = 5 mil/cost to cut = 7 mil or cap hit of 2 mil

yr 4 cap hit = 6.5 mil/cost to cut pre Roster bonus = 5 mil or a 1.5 mil CAP CREDIT

yr 5 cap hit = 7 mil/cost to cut pre Roster Bonus = 3 mil or 4 mil CAP CREDIT

yr 6 cap hit = 7.5 mil/cost to cut pre roster bonus = 1 mil or 6.5 mil CAP CREDIT

yr 7 cap hit = 10.68mil/cost to cut pre roster bonus = 0000000

That is why most say it is a 3 or 4 yr contract and the rest is funny money.

Agin, along the lines of a previous discussion we had on this subject, a couple of points:

1. That year 3 bonus isn't technically an "Option Bonus" because you've guaranteed it.

2. More importantly, it needs to be noted that said player can be released after 5 years, having been paid 25.82 mil, an average of 5.164 per year. So, you better be offering that contract to a player who actually is looking for 5 mil a year, and just gets a little ego boost from the announced figure. Because if you've offered it to a player that's looking for 7 mil per, he's gonna walk out the door and probably not return your calls while he's negotiating with other teams.