It was nice knowing you Shawn Springs

[Skin Patrol]

What would that cap number be? What would our savings be in releasing him?

Springs' salary goes up to just under 5 million from 750,000 next year. He is making about 2.5 million in signing bonuses per year meaning last year he cost the team about 3.25 mil. Next year that number jumps up to 7.3 million or the 2nd highest paid player on the team. There's nothing wrong with paying a solid CB that kind of money if he plays; yet Shawn Springs hasn't completed an NFL season since 2000. I doubt whether the front office is (or should be) willing to take on a 4 million dollar salary for a guy who plays half the season.

If we cut him it will cost us about 7.5 mil anyways in dead space next year. Still, we're going to have to pay that 7.5 mil eventually no matter what as signing bonuses are guaranteed. The question is whether we want to pay that 7.5 + 4.8 million next year, 5 million the year after, and 6 million the year after that.

Cutting him and keeping him costs about the same amount of money in next year's salary cap. But cutting him will save us 7.5 million in 2008 cap space and 8.5 million in 2009 cap space. To answer your question, the amount we'd save in cutting him before paying the upper echelon end of his salary totals to about 16 million dollars in cap space, which is a very significant amount. It would be worth it if we felt that Shawn Springs could remain healthy, though I find that proposition unlikely.

Keeping Shawn Springs is precisely the kind of short term decision that this organization has been making, disastrously, that's put us in a position to be 4-8.

[Passizle]

Armstead was inneffective, there isnt a person on here that will disagree with that. Trotter didnt do anything here, neither did W. Harris, R. Gardner (LMFAO), Arrington, he didnt do anything this year, he got hurt during the one game he showed up.

Coles and Bailey WANTED out, we sucked and I dont blame them but dont blame the FO for that.

Smoot and Pierce left for bigger deals, I wish we had kept them but we didnt. These are the only two names on here that I blame on our FO for. Davis was a big loss as well, I should have pointed that out earlier.

My point is this, dont throw a s***load of names in a box and say "the FO screwed all of this up" there are a few players on the list deserving of conversation... thats it.

Now if you want to talk about over-paying for free agents and most specifically this years FA class, I'll give you that. But again dont put that on the FO, Gregg is responsible for the highest paid STer in the league, not Vinny or Dan.

Well thats my point. Trotter did not do anything spectacular HERE. Harris did not do anything spectacular HERE. I was suprised to see you laugh at Gardener. The man was/is a solid possesion receiver and was able to produce 1000+ yd seasons while we had jokes for quarterbacks.

I will blame the front office if they cant justify paying Smoot Pierce or Arrington what they are worth and then turn around and make our coaches and one safety the highest paid peers in the league. Its out of control.

Gregg may want the players, but he is not writing the checks. That is where we need better FO management.

Im just a dissapointed fan in another losing season, like yourself. Managment has and will continue to be the cancer plaguing this franchise. Our woes have nothing to do with talent. We are teeming with talent.

[ZoEd]

Funny but I think we have been very loyal to players who deserve that loyality. Rock Cartwright comes to mind. How about Brunell? or John Hall (yes he's gone but many think he was here too long any way)...Many here think that we have been too loyal so some players like these. yet now you think that we should be loyal to the players who are treasoness? Marcus Washington, Phillip danials, ST and others who keep their mouth shut and do thier jobs are the players who deserve loyality.

Not selfish manbabies who cry to the press.

Can I still keep my sig? I thought you were being serious.

I think the loyalty is more akin to $$ than anything else. It's easy to be loyal to a guy who isn't costing you too much money. Lavar took things too far but the way Ramsey was handled was not classy at all. "Hey you're the starter, oh crap you got manhanlded now Marks the starter." Why wasn't Ramsey given the same leash as Mark?

The game of football is filled with egotistical punks, both players and coaches. They get that way because of the millions of us watching them every Sunday. It's the nature of the beast. Loyalty however has been a thorn in the NFLPA's thorn for a long time. If you sign a contract with a team you have to honor it but they can cut you at anytime. How is that loyal?

Last year when Holdman started over Lavar you think that was in the best interest of the team? It was out of spite and probably cost us ballgames. A disgruntled, slow out of shape Lavar is still better than a 100% Holdman. Yes Holdman is better this season than last but he's still a liability. We signed AA, even though I like him, for 60mil and let a less than 10mil guy walk? WTF? Is that class or loyalty? No, it's GW thinking his schemes win football games not players. That's a serious flaw no matter how you look at it.

Still think you're a genius, I just don't think you're always right. So yes you should keep the sig.

[desertfox59]

I think the loyalty is more akin to $$ than anything else. It's easy to be loyal to a guy who isn't costing you too much money. Lavar took things too far

Makes sense and I agree

the way Ramsey was handled was not classy at all. "Hey you're the starter, oh crap you got manhanlded now Marks the starter." Why wasn't Ramsey given the same leash as Mark?

I think the way that Ramsey was handled was classy as far as his departure from our team. I thought we had very good things to say about him, and praised him for his performance in the Giants game. He in turn said nothing negative about us at all. I think that was a classy departure on all parts.

Now I see your point about how Ramsey was benched...But I think that Brunell was given a longer leash because of the type's of Quarter back that he is...."Game Manager". Ramsey is and was a "Gunslinger". Under Gibbs which one is going to be given the benefit of the doubt, and which one is going have a short leash?

Funny thing is, This whole season we haven't been playing Gibbs football anyway. Saunders Offense would probably have been better off with Ramsey or Collins at the helm. :doh: God I can't believe I just wrote that! :doh:

The game of football is filled with egotistical punks, both players and coaches. They get that way because of the millions of us watching them every Sunday. It's the nature of the beast

It is the nature of the beast. That deosn't make it right. I believe with good people like you and me and others stating our opinions on message boards and in other ways, at least we are doing our part to make the game better and hopefully some of the players see the error of their ways. Even if that doesn't happen at least we made our case and vented our frustrations.

Loyalty however has been a thorn in the NFLPA's thorn for a long time. If you sign a contract with a team you have to honor it but they can cut you at anytime. How is that loyal?

Not knowing the business aspects of Football Here's how I think it should be done:

The player has the right to quit the team at any time during their contractual obligation peroid with their team. They may not recieve pay for their period that they quit through the duration of their contract. After their contract with said team is over they may enter the free agent market. Until the players contract with said team is up they may not recieve payment from any other NFL orginazation.

A team may release any player from their team at any time for any reason.

If the Player is released during a period starting one month before the regular season up to and including any time during the regular season, then the team must honor the contractual obligation with said player until the end of said teams season, or a severance package is agreed upon by both team and player in binding arbatration.

If the Released player is picked up by another team then that new team must honor the original contract made by the old team who released said player until the end of the new teams season, at which time the new team and said player may create a new contract between each other and void the contract between the team which released the original player, or the player may enter free agency.

If the realeased player doesn't not get picked up, then the original contract must be honored by the Team who released said player up until the point where that teams season is over, at which point both player and Team will negoitate a severence package through binding arbitration which will be started no later than one week after said teams season is over and finish no later than 1 month after arbartation has started.

...I just came up with this right now and haven't looked at all the flaws yet but what do you think?

Last year when Holdman started over Lavar you think that was in the best interest of the team

Given Lavar's statements last year, I'd have to say yes. You can't go to war with people who you can't trust to be on your side. Lavar was not on this teams side.

It was out of spite and probably cost us ballgames. A disgruntled, slow out of shape Lavar is still better than a 100% Holdman.

Here's where we disagree. I don't think Gibbs or any coaches would have any spite for any player if that player was doing what the coaches wanted them to do. I do not believe in playing a player who may have talent but caused more problems with their constant ******** and Moaning and ego centric narcissism. How could any team or any player have Faith in a guy like that? Example: Terell Owens.

We signed AA, even though I like him, for 60mil and let a less than 10mil guy walk? WTF? Is that class or loyalty?

Clearly letting Clark and Harris go was a mistake by our coaching staff. But hindsight is 20/20 and these coaches are not free from making mistakes, they are human beings. But even this mistake pales in comparrision to the major mistakes of this coaching staff:

Letting these players fail in exacution of the fundmentals of football, both blocking and tackling.

No, it's GW thinking his schemes win football games not players. That's a serious flaw no matter how you look at it.

If, that is the case, I do think that is a serious flaw. I think you must design your team based on the talent you have not the other way around.

Still think you're a genius, I just don't think you're always right. So yes you should keep the sig.

:cool: I will.

:helmet:

[ZoEd]

Letting these players fail in exacution of the fundmentals of football, both blocking and tackling.

If, that is the case, I do think that is a serious flaw. I think you must design your team based on the talent you have not the other way around.

:cool: I will.

:helmet:

Two things I agree with whole heartedly.

1)The fundamentals are what's killing us. Execution of the most basic principals of football are not being accomplished by this team. That's why I think the team has lost it's heart. You can't tell me that "professional" football players that have been playing this game their entire adult and teenage lives forget the basics. They've lost their heart plain and simple. Why? That's the problem Gibbs needs to seek out and repair for this team to succeed.

2) This is the biggest flaw with this team IMO. You can't force feed a system or scheme down each and every players throat. There are players that can be coached to conform but more often than not your stellar players are stellar because of their different styles of play. Turning Portis from an outside runner to a between the tackles kind of back was crazy. Same thing with what they did to Ramsey, Lavar, ST and a few others. You take away their instinct you take away their abilities. The coaches of this team need to identify the strengths and abilities of these players and tailor fit the scheme to the players. The basic concept won't change but it will allow the players to play with their instinct and not have to rely on their heads so damn much.

I think this is why our defense is playing so poorly, they're thinking too much and not playing from their guts. Time to get back to basics. Hitting, tackling, blocking and running the freaking football. Everything else will follow.

As always, talking football with you is a pleasure. Even if we disagree on things, it's a pleasure. :applause:

[clathel]

GW needs to be called out. He cant deal with the defensive leaders on the team. He chases them away. LA had to call him out. Springs had to also. Pierce, Bailey and Smoot were leadership presences. I think GW feels that anyone who is a leader is undermining his authority.

[Chump Bailey]

well just to give you guys a early jump on projecting our starting corners next season as Shawn Springs is seeing his last days in Washington.

I hope not. He is still our best cover corner by a pretty wide margin IMO. Too bad we burn/trade picks as if they were a nuisance. Michael Huff would have looked good in the B&G if only we had a first round pick and some leverage this past draft. Another overlooked area is the debacle of a draft we had in 2005 which really hurt this team IMO. That draft was loaded with talent which could have provided 3 or 4 immediate impact players for this team.