"Waiting to get Blown Up" - Interesting Article about Troop Morale in Iraq (Merged)

[CounterTrey]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html

Article is about the diminishing troop morale in a single batallion. Even the soldiers are confident the country is ending up in a civil war. And with an enemy you isn't readily visible, the toll is being felt by most of the soldiers.

I gurantee you, this War is going to be a huge thorn in our side for many years to come. And we can all thank Bush for the mess we're in now.

[airborneskins]

I gurantee you, this War is going to be a huge thorn in our side for many years to come. And we can all thank Bush for the mess we're in now.

Thank you for posting the article. However, I feel as though you (and this article) are wrong on this. :2cents:

[CounterTrey]

before anyone says anything, my love for our soldiers goes without saying.I guess my heart goes out to them being in this extremely difficult situation.

But if you want me to supoortm our president when he was told of the insurgency long before it came into effect in Iraq and nothing was really done to plan for it, then our soliders have to take the brunt for his incompetence. I think that's the icing on the cake for me, and on top of that we still ahve no plan for Iraq.

The Middle East is spirraling out of control right now and thats not helping Bush either. This war was builtfaulty intelligence and has cost lives of both sides, and you bet the second we're out of there, the Iraqi's are gonna pont their middle finger at us anyway.

:2cents:

[airborneskins]

... and you bet the second we're out of there, the Iraqi's are gonna pont their middle finger at us anyway.

:2cents:

Again, thank you for posting your opinion, however, I still feel as though you are wrong on this. Why you ask. I have seen the joy on the Iraqis faces as we were helpin them out. I have seen the Iraqis holding up the American flag

cheering us as we were helping them out. I have seen the young kids that were unable to get an education before, now able to study and get an education. I have seen Iraqi people that were unable to vote before in fear that they would be killed, go out on election day and leave with a purple finger showing that they have been able to vote. All of the above is because of what we (the US) have done to help them out. There are numerous more accounts of things of this nature.

All this being said, I dont think that they will be sticking up thier middle finger at us when we leave. We may never get the results that some (here in the US) are looking for, however, to say that we have not helped the Iraqi people is not true.

[swaroopm]

Thank you for posting the article. However, I feel as though you (and this article) are wrong on this. :2cents:

Can you offer a little more information? What about the article do you disagree with? For those of us who have not been to Iraq, our view is formed by articles such as these. I can't go to Iraq to interview the soldiers myself, so I have to rely on journalists to interview them and give me the soldiers' view of the situation on the ground. I thought the article did a good job of describing the difficult situation the soldiers face and the soldiers' view on the situation. It quoted some soldiers directly, soldiers who are over there right now. If you have good cause to dispute the article, then please do share for the sake of educating the rest of us. If you have been to Iraq yourself and had a different experience than the soldiers quoted in the article, then please provide some quotes of your own for some contrast with the quotes in the article. Tell us (or me at least!) about your own experience. Or, if (like me) you have not been to Iraq yourself, why is it that you dispute the first-hand accounts provided in the article?

EDIT - Oops, you posted while I was writing out my response/inquiry. Well, thanks. You sound like you were there earlier but not recently - do you think the situation may have changed/deteriorated since you were there? Or why do you think the soldiers quoted in the article seem to have a more dim view of the situation than you have?

[airborneskins]

EDIT - Oops, you posted while I was writing out my response/inquiry. Well, thanks. You sound like you were there earlier but not recently - do you think the situation may have changed/deteriorated since you were there? Or why do you think the soldiers quoted in the article seem to have a more dim view of the situation than you have?

You are right, I have not been there since 2005 and yes things have changed since then. I am not disputing the article. It followed on EOD company. EOD do not have the prettiest job in Iraq. I would argue to say that they have the hardest job in Iraq. However, this was one company that was interviewed not too long after they lost one of thier members. Of course thier outlook is gonna be dim. But to say that it categorizes how all of the soldiers in Iraq feel is untrue.

[swaroopm]

You are right, I have not been there since 2005 and yes things have changed since then. I am not disputing the article. It followed on EOD company. EOD do not have the prettiest job in Iraq. I would argue to say that they have the hardest job in Iraq. However, this was one company that was interviewed not too long after they lost one of thier members. Of course thier outlook is gonna be dim. But to say that it categorizes how all of the soldiers in Iraq feel is untrue.

Excuse my ignorance - EOD company? Explosive ordinance disposal? I assume (from the name) that an EOD company would work primarily to defuse or remove explosives (IEDs included), but the article made it sound like the battalion is mostly doing patrols in Baghdad. Is it obvious just from the fact that it's "2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division" that it's an EOD company? Would there be other battalions also doing similar patrols that are not considered EOD companies? Is it that our military has to do so many patrols that EOD companies are pressed into doing patrols too? Or is it normal for an EOD company to do patrols like these?

Sorry for the barrage of questions; I'm just interested to get a better idea about who we are reading about in the article. Thank you for your perspective on the article and your comments about your experience.

[Sarge]

Keep in mind the source of the article

[swaroopm]

Keep in mind the source of the article

Do you have a problem with the 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division?

[Sarge]

Do you have a problem with the 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division?

No, I have a problem with newpapers that have an agenda waiting for opportune, or in-opportune times to go interviewing soldiers.

Favorites times seem to be right after they have lost a memeber or after they have been there over a year only to be told they have to stay a few more weeks.

I love when they go after the low ranking guys in these situations as well. Guys that have never been away from home much, who have never traveled anywhere or seen the world.

I wish all AMericans could both go to a Turd World country and experience what's it like to go to a ****hole and be shot at.

But it's good you're trying to get a better picture from folks tht have been there. Most folks just read the NYT or the Compost or watch the nightly news and form an opinion from there

[Thiebear]

Yes there is going to be anger and frustration when you ask groups that have lost troops recently.

150,000 soldiers and they did an interview that ONLY had a negative response. How many Washington Post articles have we seen that shows everything is great, moral is good, were making a difference in the 3 provinces that were handed over to Iraqi soldiers in June?

Go into Anacostia D.C. and find some families that lost a family member recently and ask them how the crime/police are doing cleaning up the city.

Of course things arent rosie... if they were, we wouldnt need to be there...

CAMP HABBINYAH, Iraq, June 7, 2006 — The 1st Iraqi Army Division officially assumed control of territory in the vicinity of Habbaniyah, June 2. In a ceremony with the U.S. Army's 1st Battalion, 110th Infantry Regiment, the 1st Iraqi Army has taken the lead and will operate in the area.

The Iraqi unit is now responsible for planning and executing their own operations in Habbaniyah, Iraq, located between the cities of Fallujah and Ramadi.

"Working side by side with the Iraqi Army was a great experience for my soldiers. This transfer is another step to a free Iraq."

U.S. Army Lt. Col. Loris Lepri

It was the first division-level transfer of territory in al Anbar province. Four Iraqi brigades and nine Iraqi battalions are also assigned territory in the province.

"This is a very happy day, and we congratulate our great

soldiers," said Iraqi Brig. Gen. Beha'a Hussein Abed Hassen, deputy commanding general of the 1st Iraqi Army Division.

The Iraqi unit will continue to work with coalition military transition teams in the area. Military transition teams teams are responsible for training and mentoring Iraqi divisions, brigades and battalions with the ultimate goal of transferring complete control to the Iraqi units.

"Working side by side with the Iraqi Army was a great experience for my soldiers," said U.S. Army Lt. Col. Loris Lepri, commanding officer of 1st Battalion, 110th Infantry Regiment. "This transfer is another step to a free Iraq."

Coalition forces for the time being will still provide the Iraqi division with assets such as medical evacuation and fire support.

In addition to Habbaniyah, the 1st Iraqi Army Division has units in Ramadi, Fallujah and the surrounding communities.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/june2006/a060706ls1.html

[Redskins Diehard]

I do not think this was an EOD unit from the way it was written.

I think some other options for the title from the article:

"we are definitely a help to these people"

"I couldn't picture myself being anywhere else"

"whatever the [expletive] end-state is, whatever it is, we need to achieve it -- that way they didn't die for nothing"

"We're definitely making progress,"

And yes, driving around wondering if your patrol, your vehicle, is going to be the target of an IED strike is stressful. Wondering if the mortar round is going to land in your tent tonight is stressful. These deployments are not easy on troops, and I don't think anyone has ever claimed that.

[swaroopm]

I do not think this was an EOD unit from the way it was written.

Can someone clarify: what exactly is an EOD unit, and what (if anything) distinguishes it from other units?

I think some other options for the title from the article:

"we are definitely a help to these people"

"I couldn't picture myself being anywhere else"

"whatever the [expletive] end-state is, whatever it is, we need to achieve it -- that way they didn't die for nothing"

"We're definitely making progress,"

Whatever your opinion of the Post or this article, these quotes would not make appropriate headlines for the article as written. The content of the article describes the low morale of troops in this particular battalion, and the selected headline quote reflects this. The quotes you have selected do not really do anything to introduce the themes that arise in the article. If you're suggesting that the article should have emphasized these positive themes more, that's a different thing, but I don't see the basis for this. Even all four of the quotes you've selected are cut out of longer quotes which reflect the sense of frustration that the article describes. It would seem misleading to read any of those four quotes (in the extent presented in the article) and use them to paint the positive picture that is suggested by your headline suggestions. I could be wrong, but I don't think that half the troops interviewed said "this is awesome and really fulfilling" and the reporter just chose to exclude them in order to write an article about low morale. To say that is to say that Joshua Partlow has no journalistic integrity.

And yes, driving around wondering if your patrol, your vehicle, is going to be the target of an IED strike is stressful. Wondering if the mortar round is going to land in your tent tonight is stressful. These deployments are not easy on troops, and I don't think anyone has ever claimed that.

If this is true, then it would seem like the article is a reasonably accurate protrayal of these troops' experience and feelings. Do you agree? Whatever "anyone has ever claimed," I think there is value in journalists describing the troops' experience so that those of us who are not there can appreciate what the troops go through.

[Sarge]

If this is true, then it would seem like the article is a reasonably accurate protrayal of these troops' experience and feelings. Do you agree? Whatever "anyone has ever claimed," I think there is value in journalists describing the troops' experience so that those of us who are not there can appreciate what the troops go through.

But see, like you, journalists are civilains, and it's really hard to comprehend what life is like for folks stationed in places like Iraq.

Sure, they can embed with the troops, but after a fews days they get to get on a plane and go home to a house with walls, not a tent. They get to stay in that house with no thought to the fact that a shell might come in on them while they are sleeping. They get to stay that house with no giant spiders, no sanddust up their asses and in all their stuff. They get to see their families every morning. They get to eat with their families and not 400 other guys. They get to shower by themselves and not 400 other guys. They get to walk a few steps from their comfy beds to shower, instead of having to walk through the compound and wait in line with 400 guys.

They get to see WOMEN, and not the same 400 guys every day

Being deployed is such an indescribable foreign experience. It's really like landing on another planet. ANd then you get to get shot at, or run around shooting at people.

Now, if some reporter wants to stay and eat, sleep, shower and **** with that unit all year, then you'll get a real idea of what's going on. The first story after being there for a few months and being subjected to those conditions will probably be about the reporters low morale.

But these guys that fly in, stay a week or two at the most, and stick a microphone in the face of a young airman, soldier or marine after their buddy just went down, or again after they've been told they have to stay another 4 weeks on top of the year they have already done, and say

"HEY PAL, YOU'RE BEST FRIEND JUST GOT TURNED TO GOO! WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF THE WAR???? HUH? HUH? HUH?"

get no respect from me

[Redskins Diehard]

Can someone clarify: what exactly is an EOD unit, and what (if anything) distinguishes it from other units?

An EOD unit is an Explosive Ordinance Disposal unit. Here is a link to give you some information. http://www.bragg.army.mil/eod/ As mentioned earlier their job is basically to go around and defuse explosives that traditional units find(IEDs, caches, etc) I would say it is a fairly dangerous job, 2/3 of the KIA's in our unit were EOD technicians that were attached to us.

I don't think EOD units are functioning independently, they are usually assigned to other units to provide the expertise that they possess.

Whatever your opinion of the Post or this article, these quotes would not make appropriate headlines for the article as written. The content of the article describes the low morale of troops in this particular battalion, and the selected headline quote reflects this. The quotes you have selected do not really do anything to introduce the themes that arise in the article. If you're suggesting that the article should have emphasized these positive themes more, that's a different thing, but I don't see the basis for this. Even all four of the quotes you've selected are cut out of longer quotes which reflect the sense of frustration that the article describes. It would seem misleading to read any of those four quotes (in the extent presented in the article) and use them to paint the positive picture that is suggested by your headline suggestions. I could be wrong, but I don't think that half the troops interviewed said "this is awesome and really fulfilling" and the reporter just chose to exclude them in order to write an article about low morale. To say that is to say that Joshua Partlow has no journalistic integrity..

Then why isn't the subject, "A Day with troops in Baghdad", "Life on Patrol: Baghdad". The point is that all of those quotes need context. What kind of reaction does "Waiting to get Blown Up" elicit from the reader?

This article DOES not represent the low morale of the troops in this particular Battalion, it appears that maybe a squad was interviewed, which makes up about 1% of that Battalion. I am not questioning anyones integrity, just their motives.

If this is true, then it would seem like the article is a reasonably accurate protrayal of these troops' experience and feelings. Do you agree? Whatever "anyone has ever claimed," I think there is value in journalists describing the troops' experience so that those of us who are not there can appreciate what the troops go through.

I agree with your last sentence. I think you should get the whole picture. I may have at one point or another, and still today, say something along the lines of "Driving around waiting for your number to come up" but that didn't mean my morale was any lower than the guys landing on Normandy. It is rough to be in danger 24x7, but that is our(the military's) job

[pez]

I have been fully supportive of our troops, and have been fairly supportive of the war when it started (for the reasons that were given to us, which may or may not be true). However at this point, I really have ts say to myself, which is more important.... American lives or Iraqi lives? I know it may seem like a horrible thing to say, but I am really tired of hearing day after day about precious american lives being destroyed by some jackass with a carbomb.

[Redskins Diehard]

But these guys that fly in, stay a week or two at the most, and stick a microphone in the face of a young airman, soldier or marine after their buddy just went down, or again after they've been told they have to stay another 4 weeks on top of the year they have already done, and say

"HEY PAL, YOU'RE BEST FRIEND JUST GOT TURNED TO GOO! WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF THE WAR???? HUH? HUH? HUH?"

get no respect from me

A CNN crew in their suburbans got ambushed south of our FOB and arrived at our gate looking for medical assitance(there were a couple of gunshot wounds, nothing serious, but a LOT of puckered up a******s.).

We wanted to ask them what it felt like to get shot at...to be scared...to see your colleague get hit...etc. But we refrained, they didn't seem like they wanted to talk very much. I would have loved to see the report they filed, if they filed one.

[Sarge]

A CNN crew in their suburbans got ambushed south of our FOB and arrived at our gate looking for medical assitance(there were a couple of gunshot wounds, nothing serious, but a LOT of puckered up a******s.).

We wanted to ask them what it felt like to get shot at...to be scared...to see your colleague get hit...etc. But we refrained, they didn't seem like they wanted to talk very much. I would have loved to see the report they filed, if they filed one.

You should have asked anyway.

"HEY BUDDY, HOW'S YOUR MORALE NOW? JUST CHECKING" :laugh:

Hell they were probably having lunch with some terrorist and ate with their left hands or offended them in some other way and ended up shot

[Chief skin]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html

Article is about the diminishing troop morale in a single batallion. Even the soldiers are confident the country is ending up in a civil war. And with an enemy you isn't readily visible, the toll is being felt by most of the soldiers.

I gurantee you, this War is going to be a huge thorn in our side for many years to come. And we can all thank Bush for the mess we're in now.

I had the opportunity to speak to a Marine LT back in NOV 05 he was just back from Iraq on leave, he said the place is an unbeleivable mess on the very edge of civil war and we are responsible for it. Also said ( the so called liberal media just scratches the surface of how really bad it is) finally he predicted we will be there for another 10 years.

[Midnight Judges]

Sarge, I'm curious why you think words can not describe what you have been through. Maybe I am just an unremarkable person, but out of all the words in the English language, I'm pretty sure I could make people understand the worst pain I ever felt, etc. IMO you could make someone understand if you took the time and wrote a book, and the listener was truely receptive.

I feel this way about minorities too. Sometimes people say "you don't understand what it's like to be black" or something to that effect. My response is the same to them as it is to you: help me understand. I will never experience what you've experienced, but I can fathom what it's like to have your life on the line, lose close friends, feel like your so-called allies are betraying you, etc.

[Midnight Judges]

I am also curious, is that really how the media is treating our guys over there, sticking microphones in their faces immediately after their comrades are killed? I would hope you guys have a choice of when to speak to reporters, and it is on a volunteer basis, because nobody in anguish should ever be hounded. If this is true, I would propose a different standard operating procedure for reporters dealing with our troops.

[Kindred]

Troop morale appears to be really low right now. As much as I know the right thing to do is stay and help the transition to a new government, I agree with that one soldier that Iraq needs a civil war. They need to settle their difference for once and for all. I dont think any amount of transitioning or preparation will change this fact.

Another striking quote:

"Think of what you hate most about your job. Then think of doing what you hate most for five straight hours, every single day, sometimes twice a day, in 120-degree heat," he said. "Then ask how morale is."

Frustrated? "You have no idea," he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html

[fight_on_til_you_have_won]

Next time, maybe do a little research.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161373

[bird_1972]

Thank you for posting the article. However, I feel as though you (and this article) are wrong on this. :2cents:

I hope they are, for our country's sake.

[bird_1972]

Turd World country

What's a "turd world country"? Is that the term that conservative thought leaders are using to describe the developing world these days?