Campbell > Leinart, Cutler

[ouvan59]

Not to disrupt your blind homerism, but the man had accuracy problems. Look it up.

But have it your way. He can throw a deep ball, but he can't throw a 10 yard out. Feel better?

Yeah, the 65% completion percentage his last 3 seasons really shows that he can't hit the broad side of a barn. And before you try the inevitable argument that he got those numbers through a "dink-and-dunk" offense, he averaged an astounding 10 yards per pass attempt his senior year and 8.7 for his career. None of the 3 QBs taken this year, Young, Leinart or Cutler, had a completion percentage or YPC as high as Campbell.

And by the way, Auburn was undefeated in 2004 so your lost three out of the gate scenario is full of your usual idiocy.

[ouvan59]

And Shanahan thought VERY highly of Cutler. Enough to give up 2 first round picks for him. That should tell you everything you need to know about Cutler

You mean the same guy that drafted Maurice Clarett in the 3rd round last year when most people were wondering if he would get drafted at all? I guess they should start fitting Cutler for his HOF ring right now.

[WeownU]

Well it's obvious that it's pointless to continue to debate with you. When your "facts" are proven wrong via legit data, and your response is that that legit data is in fact overrated. I suppose if someone comes up with additional ammunition to disprove your assertation then you can find some other way to spin your argument. Have fun with that.

I really don't care if they guy had a 90% completion rating. Go find some data on the 2005 NFL draft and read the breakdown on JC's game.

Every one says he has accuracy problems, and struggles with his decision making.

You can talk completion percentage till the cows come home, that was never at the heart of this debate.

[Isifhan]

Go find some data on the 2005 NFL draft and read the breakdown on JC's game.

I think the members of the board have done enough to refute your arguments while you have done nothing to prove yours. I'm not going to look anything up. When you come here and post legitimate arguments then maybe there is a decent conversation to be had.

[ouvan59]

I really don't care if they guy had a 90% completion rating. Go find some data on the 2005 NFL draft and read the breakdown on JC's game.

Every one says he has accuracy problems, and struggles with his decision making.

You can talk completion percentage till the cows come home, that was never at the heart of this debate.

No, they really didn't. The knock on him was that he loses some accuracy when forced from the pocket and throwing on the move to his left. He showed good accuracy, especially on short and medium routes, when throwing from the pocket and rolling to his right. He lost some accuracy on his deep throws. Another concern was his propensity to lock onto his primary receiver.

I always love when you post. You never fail to produce the most homeristic, classic Brokeback stance on every Redskins move.

[jivelikenice]

I think when you look back at the CNNSi grade of Cambell v. the qb's in this draft that it's fair to say that Jason would rank 4th on this list. However as many have said, JC has the advantage of having a year under his belt, PLUS he has all of the tools....His drawback was that he was inconsistent until his senior season but he has the upside that some of the 2nd and 3rd round prospects in this years draft do not have.

I think our trade has been validated however due to the fact that there was no qb available at our originally slotted position who would have been a better prospect that Cambell.

[Dick Edds]

And just what do you think Gibbs is gonna say? He's going to defend his guy of course. DUH.

If you can trust Gibbs with quarterbacks, why did he have to change his starter after 2 weeks last year?

If you want to find somone who knows quarterbacks, look no further than Mike Shanahan. He's had a long history of getting the best out of them. Look what he's done with Plummer. Jake freakin Plummer.

And Shanahan thought VERY highly of Cutler. Enough to give up 2 first round picks for him. That should tell you everything you need to know about Cutler

easy buddy, relax a little bit. Shanahan is a great coach and has worked with some great QB's and helped developed 3 HOF QB's . . . he know's his stuff. But please don't blindly disregard Gibb's ability to evaluate a QB either. We won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's (2 of which were passed over by other teams at different points in their careers).You are right, Gibbs is going to defend his choice . . . but not because he doesn;t want to give the impression of making a mistake - because he knows what he is doing. All of us critics can say whatever and evaulate this and that QB and rank and compare all day.

Know will know anything for at least 5 years anyway. There have been players who have had strong careers in the beginning only to fade away. This argument will not be answered for some time.

Arguing that Leinart has no arm strenght is bogus, just like arguing that Campbell has no accuracy is flat out wrong as well.

Eveyone said the same thingsonly one who came out and said we haven't seen the last iof Brunell. Brunell had a pro-bowl caliber year last year (and that is not homerism . . . he flat out had better stats than Vick as the #3 QB in the NFC) . . . again, Gibb's knows what he is doing.

And your comment about pulling the starter after 2 quarters makes no sense. Again, Gibb's gave Ramsey every oppotunity to take control of the offense and step up to be the starting QB and team leader. He floundered and was beat out for the job. Had Gibb's not pulled Ramsey and put Brunell in, we may have lost that game and not made the playoffs.

Shanahan does know how to evaluate talent, but so does Gibb's - and he's had just as much (I would argue more) success in the postseason, and has won the big game in different eras unlike Shanhan. No knock on him, but they are like apples and oranges. The thing you should be asking yourself is "Drew Henson or Tony Romo sits to pee " ? . . who do you think will become your team's QB of the future.

[D'Pablo]

On to the QB debates, statistically (going by most recent seasons):

Jason Campbell (14-0):

188 of 270 passes completed (69.6%)

2700 yards

7 int's v. 20 td's

Drafted players from his tenure: Marcus McNeill (2nd), Devin Aromashodu (7th), Stanley McClover (7th), Ben Obomanu (7th), Ronnie Brown (1st), Cadillac Williams (1st), Carlos Rogers (1st), Jay Ratliff (7th), Karlos Dansby (2nd), Dontarrious Thomas (2nd), Reggie Torbor (4th), Jeris McIntyre (6th), Kendall Simmons (1st), Tim Carter (2nd), Mike Pucillo (7th)

Matt Leinart (13-1):

283 of 431 passes completed (65.7%)

3815 yards

8 int's v. 28 td's

Drafted players from his tenure: Reggie Bush (1st), Winston Justice (2nd), Deuce Lutui (2nd), LenDale White (2nd), Frostee Rucker (3rd), Dominique Byrd (3rd), Darnell Bing (4th), David Kirtman (5th), LaJuan Ramsey (6th), Fred Matua (7th), Mike Williams (1st), Mike Patterson (1st), Shaun Cody (2nd), Lofa Tatupu (2nd), Matt Cassel (7th), Kenechi Udeze (1st), Jacob Rogers (2nd), Keary Colbert (2nd), Will Poole (4th)

Jay Cutler (5-6):

273 of 462 passes completed (59.1%)

3073 yards

9 int's v. 21 td's

Drafted players from his tenure: Jovan Haye (6th), Justin Geisinger (6th)

[ouvan59]

Completion percentage is one of the most overrated stats in the history of football. Show me his average yards per completion stat, compared to Leinart, Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, or Alex Smith.

Same story as Brunell last year. High passing percentage, but the lowest yards per catch ratio's in the entire NFL.

There's a difference between throwing the ball downfield and dumping it off to a running back for a 2 yard pass.

YPC

Campbell: 14.36 ypc

Young: 14.32 ypc

Leinart: 13.48 ypc

Cutler: 11.26 ypc

Next WeownU talking-out-of-my-ass myth to be debunked?

[cpnasty]

YPC

Campbell: 14.36 ypc

Young: 14.32 ypc

Leinart: 13.48 ypc

Cutler: 11.26 ypc

Next WeownU talking-out-of-my-ass myth to be debunked?

man WeownU i think u should just leave now, you making yourself look like a jackass:D

[jivelikenice]

I got this question in on an ESPN chat just write now but Mike didn't really give too much insight.....

Oz, D.C.: Mike, how do you think Jason Cambell compares to the qb crop that was available in this draft? I think that he fits in as the 4th guy and validates trading what turned out the be the 22nd overall pick for him.

Mike Wilkening: (4:54 PM ET ) He probably would have been the fourth QB taken in this draft, yes. Whether that validates Washington's decision remains to be seen. It depends how he develops.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=11572

[Mr. Grundle]

man WeownU i think u should just leave now, you making yourself look like a jackass:D

Or keep posting and just change your name to IOwnMe.

[Davethegolfguy]

I don't care what they did in college. This is a different game. I'll stick with Campbell and his speed, arm strength, and he is the son of a coach, right? Gibbs will once again work his magic. When he feels the time is right for Campbell to step in, the rest of us will see it too.

[Sunburn]

In my mind, JC might be the best of the 4.

Arm strength? - Campbell wins with Cutler in 2nd.

Speed? - Young wins with Campbell in 2nd.

Decision making? - Leinart wins with Campbell in 2nd.

Intangibles? - Cutler and Campbell toss up, until you factor in that Gibbs thinks Campbell is the best. Then his intangibles seem kinda... tangible, don't they?

[Fifty Gut]

And just what do you think Gibbs is gonna say? He's going to defend his guy of course. DUH.

"DUH" what? yes, defend his guy, I trust him that his guy is the guy for the team because

he knows QBs

If you can trust Gibbs with quarterbacks, why did he have to change his starter after 2 weeks last year?

because he's a man of his word, and Ramsey was given the starting job that summer

If you want to find somone who knows quarterbacks, look no further than Mike Shanahan. He's had a long history of getting the best out of them. Look what he's done with Plummer. Jake freakin Plummer.

...

he hasn't done ****... the same man that made Brian Grease a rich man, now has done it with Plummer... again, no results

your comparisons hold no weight, Gibbs has won 3 SBs, 3 different QBs

Shanahan, 2 SBs, 1 QB

And Shanahan thought VERY highly of Cutler. Enough to give up 2 first round picks for him. That should tell you everything you need to know about Cutler

that tells me he overpaid, that's it, doesn't tell me this predraft overhyped player is anything special

[ronnix]

interesting debate. i have watched jason campbell and jay cutler play all the years they played in the sec. some of the comments are wild. saying leinart played in a better conference than the sec, is laughable. jay cutler, played on a very average team, that got beat by mtsu, and then upset tennessee. he does have a strong arm, but, he makes some really bad decisions, forces a lot of passes, and fumbles a lot trying to make the big play. does not read defenses well yet, because he played at vanderbilt, not the highest paid staff in the sec. campbell, has been a steady improvement at auburn his whole career there. his junior year was his breakout year. he was surrounded by excellent receivers, rbs, and a strong offensive line. his defense was very good at getting turnovers as well. he always played within himself. he had complete control of the game, and rarely made bad throws or made bad decisions that cost his team. his junior year, the auburn team was undefeated, and should have been playing for the title instead of oklahoma. talent wise they matched up really good. he has a stronger arm, and is just as accurate. more mobility than leinart. very coachable, mainly, because his dad was a high school head coach, and he learned early, how important it was to play consistently. he never complained, steady as a rock, has confidence. victor young, more athletic, but, not the leader, nor the qb skills that jason has acquired over his 4 years of college. believe me, jason will be very effective when joe gibbs gives the ball over to him. i also believe, jason will not be the leader of the team unless he shows the coaches, he can do it.

[jivelikenice]

The one thing I'd liketo see from JC do is drive the ball to its target. I was watching the SEC Championship highlights and while he has a big arm it just doesn't look like he puts his full body into every throw he makes. I think he can really gun it but its just something mechanically that needs to be worked on...(if it hasn't already)

[Jethrodsp]

WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD JASON CAMPBELL IS.

Please stop hailing the kid as the second coming. If you can say that Jason Campbell is absolutely better than Leinart, Cutler, Young, or Alex Smith for that matter, then you are just a homer.

Fact is, we have no idea who is the best out of this group. Only one has taken an NFL snap so far.

I like Campbell. He looks good in a NFL uniform, but thats it. We dont know how good he is.

[dirtyleft]

I strongly disagree. Leinart spent his entire collegiate carreer playing in a pro style system. Even after a year.on the bench, I'd feel more comfortable with Leinart as my starting QB then Campbell anyday of the week.

HELLO, LOOK LET'S NOT MAKE ANY PREDICTIONS ABOUT WHO'S BETTER NEITHER ONE OF THEM HAVE WON A NFL GAME.THE ONLY WAY WE WILL KNOW WHO IS BETTER IS WHEN WE SEE THEM PLAY. WOULD YOU SAY REGGIE BUSH IS BETTER THAN EMMET SMITH OR WALTER PAYTON? YOU DON'T KNOW BECAUSE HE HASN'T PLAYED A DOWN IN THE NFL.

[Dick Edds]

interesting debate. i have watched jason campbell and jay cutler play all the years they played in the sec. some of the comments are wild. saying leinart played in a better conference than the sec, is laughable. jay cutler, played on a very average team, that got beat by mtsu, and then upset tennessee. he does have a strong arm, but, he makes some really bad decisions, forces a lot of passes, and fumbles a lot trying to make the big play. does not read defenses well yet, because he played at vanderbilt, not the highest paid staff in the sec. campbell, has been a steady improvement at auburn his whole career there. his junior year was his breakout year. he was surrounded by excellent receivers, rbs, and a strong offensive line. his defense was very good at getting turnovers as well. he always played within himself. he had complete control of the game, and rarely made bad throws or made bad decisions that cost his team. his junior year, the auburn team was undefeated, and should have been playing for the title instead of oklahoma. talent wise they matched up really good. he has a stronger arm, and is just as accurate. more mobility than leinart. very coachable, mainly, because his dad was a high school head coach, and he learned early, how important it was to play consistently. he never complained, steady as a rock, has confidence. victor young, more athletic, but, not the leader, nor the qb skills that jason has acquired over his 4 years of college. believe me, jason will be very effective when joe gibbs gives the ball over to him. i also believe, jason will not be the leader of the team unless he shows the coaches, he can do it.

Very well said. Nice analysis. :dallasuck

[D'Pablo]

It seems like a lot of people in this thread fail to see the context of this thread. It doesn't have anything to do with how great their careers will be, but rather how they would project in this draft. I believe that, had Campbell come out this year, he would have been the #2 choice.

[Hogie]

This might be one of the 5 worst thread premises in the history of the internet. Why is anyone agreeing with it?

[mookie0720]

Um, because this is Extremskins.

Homerism at it's extreme.

[QBkilla56]

I agree. Also Rocky McIntosh, Anthony Montgomery, Reed Doughty, Kedric Golston, Kili Lefotu, and Kevin Simon were the best at their positions taken in the draft. AJ Hawk, Ngata, Michael Huff, all hype. All the guys we chose should have gone 1st round but because other teams can't see talent they weren't. Good for us.

[HeHateMe]

Physically more imposing than Leinart and also with championship credentials. Both had great RBs' date=' but its obvious that Campbell was working with less talent over all (players and coaching [4 coordinators in 4 years']). Cutler has an arm, but Campbell is better than him in every other conceivable way. We got the would-be-#2 QB in this draft at #22 last year. Gibbs looks smarter and smarter each and every day.

For some odd reason, I think Bronco fans and Arizona fans might disagree.

Just a hunch.