Thiebear Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Children don't understand that everything does NOT start with them and then ripples outward. Everything that happens is because of them ie. divorce etd.. There is no such thing as self reflection with a 1-5 year old... everything is self eminating... It's my job to make sure Carolaine and Taylor grow up correctly based on everything my Father did and to do the opposite. I'm there all the time. They get a smack on the back of the hand. They get sent to their room In all of the parenting I see, those that say over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again they are going to "get" in trouble.. but never do, the kids figure it out way before the parents do... Here's a reason they get a smack on the hand. I've told them not to do something... explained why I've re-told them not to do something.. explained why I've re-retold them not to do something and IF they don't they will get a spanking. They do it again... (spanking, sit on the bed a little while and re-explain what just happened).... AlexRS: You CAN'T have a child over 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I agree with everything here, except this:"One of the big ones is associative memory. Dogs don't really have it." "This is because if you punish the dog as soon as you catch her she won't associate with running away, she'll associate with coming back" So dogs do have associative memory, right? All organizms have associative memory it seems. Memory is just a bunch of associations. They do, but only in the immediate moment. That's why when she comes back, she doesn't think she's getting punished for running away because that's not what just happened. What just happened was she returned to you therefore whatever your reaction is, that's what she'll associate it with. Just like with house training. There's no sense in repremanding a dog for going in the house unless you catch them in the act. Otherwise, they have no clue why you're repremanding them. You're right, they do have associatve memory, it just only has to do with the now. Dogs don't think in past tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 As a father and a teacher, I can tell you that it is obvious he doesn't have any children, nor does he work with any. There are many different ways to be a father and a teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 Let me get this straight... Are you not relying on kids' self-reflection when punishing them? "I am punishing you for this, go to your room and think about what you've done" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 Children don't understand that everything does NOT start with them and then ripples outward. Everything that happens is because of them ie. divorce etd.. There is no such thing as self reflection with a 1-5 year old... everything is self eminating... It's my job to make sure Carolaine and Taylor grow up correctly based on everything my Father did and to do the opposite. I'm there all the time. They get a smack on the back of the hand. They get sent to their room In all of the parenting I see, those that say over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again they are going to "get" in trouble.. but never do, the kids figure it out way before the parents do... Here's a reason they get a smack on the hand. I've told them not to do something... explained why I've re-told them not to do something.. explained why I've re-retold them not to do something and IF they don't they will get a spanking. They do it again... (spanking, sit on the bed a little while and re-explain what just happened).... AlexRS: You CAN'T have a child over 1. Train your kid as if it were a dog, why don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 There are many different ways to be a father and a teacher. And you don't have a clue about any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 And you don't have a clue about any of them. If you do not mind, I will stop responding to posts of this nature from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Whippins saved my life, no doubt in my mind. My dad did something weird though. He'd send me downstairs to the "whippin center", tear us up, then explain to us why he did it. As a child, I could see it really did hurt him more then it hurt me. That's had a lasting affect on me to this day. Timeouts don't work because all I do is think about either revenge or how I can get away with it the next time. Giving kids time to think is dangerous, so just do what you have to do to make them fear you. Trust me, it works. We may hate you sometimes, but when we grow older, we really respect you and what you did take make us respectable human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Let's say my answer is No. What's next?Let's say my answer is Yes. What's next? ---------- edit: what I mean to say is, if you have a point - go ahead and assume whatever answer you need to hear in order to make it. Let's say if we're going to have a discussion we be forthright and not play word games. Wether you do or don't certainly affects your perception. I have 2 1/2, 7 and 8 year olds. I know my parenting skills are effective. I know that each of my children require vastly different parenting techniques. My 7 and 8 year olds are capable of self reflection. They've been given a solid foundation of core values and have the cognitive ability to reason (to a point). So, when they do the wrong thing, they deserve to be punished because they know what they are doing. The reason why is completely irrelevant as to the need for punishment. It does have value in determining why they made the wrong choice, which will help in correcting the behavior. My 2 1/2 year old does not posess this same skill. He can not self reflect to determine the err of his ways. If he wants to touch something you don't want him to, it becomes a contest of wills. One that you dare not lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Train your kid as if it were a dog, why don't you. When you disagree with others, you say there are many ways to be a father and a teacher... Then say the above... You have no idea of which you are talking about: Now that I've given you a scenario: Take that same scenario and do it the way you would... Here's a reason they get a smack on the hand. I've told them not to do something... explained why I've re-told them not to do something.. explained why I've re-retold them not to do something and IF they don't they will get a spanking. They do it again... (spanking, sit on the bed a little while and re-explain what just happened).... I see lots of questions and innuendo but no solutions: of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 Let's say if we're going to have a discussion we be forthright and not play word games. Wether you do or don't certainly affects your perception. I agree, it definitely does. However, it seems you asked that question in order to discredit my character instead of discussimg my post. I have 2 1/2, 7 and 8 year olds. I know my parenting skills are effective. I know that each of my children require vastly different parenting techniques. I never claimed that your parenting skills are ineffective. I never claimed anything about your (or anybody else's here) parenting skills. Please do not take my posts as offensive - my intention is not to offend anybody but to discuss. Surely you wouldn't claim that your parenting skills are most effective parenting skills possible? There is always room for improvement, we are all always learning. Isn't that the reason why we are talking about this in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Whippins saved my life, no doubt in my mind. My dad did something weird though. He'd send me downstairs to the "whippin center", tear us up, then explain to us why he did it. As a child, I could see it really did hurt him more then it hurt me. That's had a lasting affect on me to this day. Timeouts don't work because all I do is think about either revenge or how I can get away with it the next time. Giving kids time to think is dangerous, so just do what you have to do to make them fear you. Trust me, it works. We may hate you sometimes, but when we grow older, we really respect you and what you did take make us respectable human beings. Good point. Spanking have to be done while you are calm. Never out of anger. And you must discuss the action that led to the spanking and why it required a spanking. Funny thing is, spankings are far and few between if you establish the proper parent/child relationship from the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Know better or not - there is still a reason why the child did that. Talking to the child about that reason will lead the child to self-reflect. This is the very important distinction I am making. The child learns by self-reflection rather then associating behavior with punishment. I'm in complete agreement with you. I believe in the example I showed talking with the child and allowing him to understand what he did wrong, to me, would be the way to go over screaming, hitting, ect. As I've said before, rational and calm discussion and explanation are much better methods in my book. Morals work a lot better when they're understood and accepted than observed out of fear of punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 When you disagree with others, you say there are many ways to be a father and a teacher... Then say the above... You have no idea of which you are talking about: Now that I've given you a scenario: Take that same scenario and do it the way you would... Here's a reason they get a smack on the hand. I've told them not to do something... explained why I've re-told them not to do something.. explained why I've re-retold them not to do something and IF they don't they will get a spanking. They do it again... (spanking, sit on the bed a little while and re-explain what just happened).... I see lots of questions and innuendo but no solutions: of course... What is this "something" you are talking about? And you accuse ME of being vague? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I agree, it definitely does. However, it seems you asked that question in order to discredit my character instead of discussimg my post. I never claimed that your parenting skills are ineffective. I never claimed anything about your (or anybody else's here) parenting skills. Please do not take my posts as offensive - my intention is not to offend anybody but to discuss. Surely you wouldn't claim that your parenting skills are most effective parenting skills possible? There is always room for improvement, we are all always learning. Isn't that the reason why we are talking about this in the first place? So you weren't being offensive when you said I treat my children like a dog? o.k.: then answer the scenario I gave you... non-offensive man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 I'm in complete agreement with you. I believe in the example I showed talking with the child and allowing him to understand what he did wrong, to me, would be the way to go over screaming, hitting, ect. As I've said before, rational and calm discussion and explanation are much better methods in my book. Morals work a lot better when they're understood and accepted than observed out of fear of punishment. Thanks man, this is exactly the distinction I am trying to make - "understood and accepted" rather than "fear of punishment" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 What is this "something" you are talking about?And you accuse ME of being vague? You were able to accuse me without knowing the something: Insert: pushing on the dogs hip as it hurts the dog and will make it bite you again and I will have to take it to the pound. Insert: going outside the gate of the yard to the excessively fast elmwood drive in front... Insert: Pulling your sisters hair because she has your toy. Insert: Running towards something after getting out of the car in the Shoppers/Target/Giant/Blockbuster/7-11/Safeway/HomeDepot parking lot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I never got a whippin I did not deserve, they were few and far between ,because I had respect for my Father and My Father was not overly strict. He raised us with manners and boundries while at the same time allowed us to discover things on our own and trusted us to wander the woods and camp out on our own and things like that once our chores were done. He trusted us to do that because he set boundries he knew we would adhere to. My Father was strict sometimes but rewarded us when we did well, Balance was the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 You were able to accuse me without knowing the something:Insert: pushing on the dogs hip as it hurts the dog and will make it bite you again and I will have to take it to the pound. Insert: going outside the gate of the yard to the excessively fast elmwood drive in front... I merely suggested a resemblance of your approach to the one used on dogs - association of behavior with a negative experience. Back to your example... I'd LOVE to provide some alternative solutions. What was that "something" that the child did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Thanks man, this is exactly the distinction I am trying to make - "understood and accepted" rather than "fear of punishment" Yes, but that doesn't mean punishment is not a needed tool. The extent and type of punishment has to be relevant to the offense. Punishment doesn't have to be physical and they should be tempered to fit the age of the child. I just think that there has to be balance, the child should be rewarded and praised for doing the right things (good grades, showing self restraint, ect) just as they are reprimanded for the wrong actions. You've got problems if you have too much or too little of either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I merely suggested a resemblance of your approach to the one used on dogs - association of behavior with a negative experience.Back to your example... I'd LOVE to provide some alternative solutions. What was that "something" that the child did? I dont beat my dog.. and the examples were the children.... keep up now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I agree, it definitely does. 1) However, it seems you asked that question in order to discredit my character instead of discussimg my post. 2) I never claimed that your parenting skills are ineffective. I never claimed anything about your (or anybody else's here) parenting skills. Please do not take my posts as offensive - my intention is not to offend anybody but to discuss. 3) Surely you wouldn't claim that your parenting skills are most effective parenting skills possible? 4) There is always room for improvement, we are all always learning. Isn't that the reason why we are talking about this in the first place? 1) I don't mind having intellectual discussions on this stuff, but I like to know which side of the fence you are on. This doesn't discredit you. It just allows me to understand your position better. If you don't have children and are interested in input to form your own decisions on how to parent, this is a worthy discussion. If you don't have children and you think you know the best way to raise children, your opinion means very little. 2) I just wanted to establish my experience with the subject matter. . 3) My best parenting skill, IMO, is my willingness to adapt my parenting behavior to the need of the child. I don't believe there is one right way to do it, but there are parenting absolutes that apply to all children. ALL children require the proper types of punishment that they respond too. I do believe that it is absolutely crucial that you establish the parent/child relationship from the beginning. If you disagree as a parent with the last two statements, then yes, my skills are more effective. 4) Agreed. None of us is perfect and we should always strive to do better by our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 Insert: pushing on the dogs hip as it hurts the dog and will make it bite you again and I will have to take it to the pound. What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" Insert: going outside the gate of the yard to the excessively fast elmwood drive in front... What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" Insert: Pulling your sisters hair because she has your toy. What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" Insert: Running towards something after getting out of the car in the Shoppers/Target/Giant/Blockbuster/7-11/Safeway/HomeDepot parking lot.. What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?"What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" What did the child answer when you asked the child: "why did you do that?" ANSWER THE QUESTION OR STOP PLAYING DUMB.... You accuse without response, your offer opinion without example. You answer every question with a question. You have no children as children will answer all of the above questions the same way... You should have your hand spanked for constantly being asked the same thing over and over and over again without response... After spanking your and and giving you a timeout I'll explain to you how stupid your being. We all know your a good helper, but you have to apply yourself more Alex. If adults ask you 4 times if you have children you should answer them honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I'm in complete agreement with you. I believe in the example I showed talking with the child and allowing him to understand what he did wrong, to me, would be the way to go over screaming, hitting, ect. As I've said before, rational and calm discussion and explanation are much better methods in my book. Morals work a lot better when they're understood and accepted than observed out of fear of punishment. Punishment should always be rational and calm with discussion. That is an important point. Flying off the handle and punishing in anger will just breed disrespect and spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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