flyingtiger1013 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I'm American...from Scot-English ancestry. Cameron. Yep, we've been here since we were considered colonies. From Blazing Saddles: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Olson Johnson: All right, we'll give some land to the ni**ers and the chinks, but we DON'T WANT THE IRISH. :laugh: http://wtop.com/?nid=105&sid=728142 DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) - For one week a year, nursery owner Cecil Geddis is knee-deep in shamrocks, the delicate three-leafed plant that people the world over associate with Ireland and St. Patrick's Day. You have to move fast in this business. Nobody wants to buy a shamrock on March 18," said Geddis, whose nursery has produced 80,000 shamrock plants, most shipped out in cartons bearing leprechaun decorations and labeled: "Authentic shamrock _ grown in Ireland." While wearing a freshly cut shamrock is a fading tradition in Ireland, a few savvy growers and seed merchants are wooing foreign buyers and tourists with claims that the shamrock seeds and plants they offer are unique to the emerald isle. "About 10 or 15 years ago, the source of shamrock seeds disappeared, because there was in fact only one source in the country, and the man died. He didn't pass it on to anybody else!" said Thomas Quearney, owner of a specialist Dublin seed importer, Mr. Middleton Garden Shop. Quearney claims to have identified a new secret source for seeds that he soon will sell in packets of 100 for just under $5. "These grow genuine shamrocks. It's not clover at all," he said. Botanists say that's a load of blarney. "Shamrock only exists on St. Patrick's Day. Every other day of the year, it's just young clover," said botanist Charles Nelson, Ireland's leading shamrock expert. He has identified four varieties of clover _ in layman's terms: white, yellow, black and red _ that Irish people label shamrock. Each, he says, thrives in the wilds and as garden weeds across the globe. "There's two principal myths about shamrock: that it's unique to Ireland, and that it never flowers," Nelson said by telephone. "But you can find it easily from Tasmania to North America to the mountains of South Africa. It's probably growing outside my front door," said Nelson, who's now vacationing on a volcanic island off the coast of Morocco. According to legend, as St. Patrick spread Christianity through Ireland in the 5th century, he seized upon the three leaves of a clover to illustrate the concept of trinity _ God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit _ all springing from the same source. Historians say the first written references to "shamrocks" as part of St. Patrick's Day celebrations don't appear until the early 18th century. One traveling Protestant minister recorded in his diary in 1726: "This Plant (white clover) is worn by the People in their Hats upon the 17. Day of March yearly (which is called St. Patrick's Day.) it being a Current Tradition, that by this Three Leafed Grass, he emblematically set forth to them the Mystery of the Holy Trinity." The name "shamrock" is actually an English transliteration from the original Gaelic name for young clover: "seamra" (pronounced "shom-ruh") for clover and "og" for young. In British royal symbols, the shamrock for centuries has symbolized Ireland, just as the rose denotes England and the thistle Scotland. While people associate the three-leafed shamrock with Ireland, the Irish Republic's official symbol is the harp, which appears on Irish coins and government publications. However, Ireland's tourism board and national airline, Aer Lingus, use shamrocks as their symbols. Today's shamrock sellers reportedly rely on imported clover seeds _ if only because Ireland has no indigenous commercial seed producer for any plant. Reports that Ireland's shamrocks are produced by seeds from New Zealand or Canada have provoked politicians to demand that the government should somehow make the shamrock exclusively Irish. That appears unlikely. At the Irish Seed Saver Association, a charity that protects about 650 varieties of apple trees, grains and potatoes, the future of the shamrock isn't even on the agenda. "It's a nice notion, to believe in mythic plants," said Jill Newton, the seed bank coordinator. "But most of the clovers we have here are similar to much of Europe. They're hardly special or endangered." Nor does she regret Ireland's modern disinterest in pinning sprigs of the plant to one's chest on St. Patrick's Day. "I've never worn a shamrock. I wouldn't want to kill a plant just to wear it," she said. "It's one of saddest things we do, killing plants just to look at them." ___ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 ..."I've never worn a shamrock. I wouldn't want to kill a plant just to wear it," she said. "It's one of saddest things we do, killing plants just to look at them."This was the best part. :laugh: I wonder if she yells at her neighbor for weeding his garden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Traditions change over time, and I don't know what people do there today, but growing up in Ireland St Patrick's Day was a simple public holiday. Politicians and TV newsreaders would wear a sprig of shamrock in their buttonhole, but not many others would. It wasn't a day characterized by Irish activities, simply because the other 364 days of the year had plenty of those! Any barman offering to add green coloring to your beer wouldn't have met with a favorable response. Most of the St Patrick's Day 'traditions' seem to come from expatriates, especially in the USA. And recently some Irish cities have copied a more American model of how to celebrate St Patrick's Day as it is good for the tourists, and also has become more of a focus for community activities such as parades. Guinness marketing is behind the growth Irish traditions too of course, much like Corona is encouraging celebration of Cinco de Mayo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 "I've never worn a shamrock. I wouldn't want to kill a plant just to wear it," she said. "It's one of saddest things we do, killing plants just to look at them." ___ heheh ok dual thread tie in time.. I wonder how she feels about clubbing seals Hey it's not killing plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingtiger1013 Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 Traditions change over time, and I don't know what people do there today, but growing up in Ireland St Patrick's Day was a simple public holiday. Politicians and TV newsreaders would wear a sprig of shamrock in their buttonhole, but not many others would.It wasn't a day characterized by Irish activities, simply because the other 364 days of the year had plenty of those! Any barman offering to add green colring to your beer wouldn't have met with a favorable response. Most of the St Patrick's Day 'traditions' seem to come from expatriates, especially in the USA. And recently some Irish cities have copied a more American model of how to celebrate St Patrick's Day as it is good for the tourists, and also has become more of a focus for community activities such as parades. Guinness marketing is behind the growth Irish traditions too of course, much like Corona is encouraging celebration of Cinco de Mayo. Great post!!!!! Where in the "Emerald Isle" do you hail from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 "I've never worn a shamrock. I wouldn't want to kill a plant just to wear it," she said. "It's one of saddest things we do, killing plants just to look at them." ___ That was a bit strange ... but I suppose she does work in a plant preservation society :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Oh ... and being the day it is, I should use this icon. I'll be following one Irish tradition tonight Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Great post!!!!! Where in the "Emerald Isle" do you hail from? I lived in Ireland for twenty one years, eleven in Dublin and then ten in Cork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 heheh ok dual thread tie in time..I wonder how she feels about clubbing seals Hey it's not killing plants. Probably not popular .... being a small island with a sizeable population for thousands of years, there isn't a big hunting culture as anything wild worth eating has largely been killed off several hundred years ago. Hunting birds and rabbits is about as far as it goes, and lots of fishing. Also, the Irish, possibly as a result of the English colonial legacy and so much Catholic Church support for overseas charity work, are fans of the underdog and suspicious of the establishment. In baby seals vs hunters, the seals would get the majority public support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Traditions change over time, and I don't know what people do there today, but growing up in Ireland St Patrick's Day was a simple public holiday. Politicians and TV newsreaders would wear a sprig of shamrock in their buttonhole, but not many others would.It wasn't a day characterized by Irish activities, simply because the other 364 days of the year had plenty of those! Any barman offering to add green coloring to your beer wouldn't have met with a favorable response. Most of the St Patrick's Day 'traditions' seem to come from expatriates, especially in the USA. And recently some Irish cities have copied a more American model of how to celebrate St Patrick's Day as it is good for the tourists, and also has become more of a focus for community activities such as parades. Guinness marketing is behind the growth Irish traditions too of course, much like Corona is encouraging celebration of Cinco de Mayo. This really makes me laugh, because its right on. I've been to Mexico as a Missionary and we asked about their holidays like Cinqo de Mayo. They said it was only celebrated in one city:Puebla. It was a day the city beat the French in a battle. Nobody else in Mexico cares about it.THe funiest thing was when I mentioned Taco Bell though. They got a great laugh out of that! "You eat olives and sourcream on tacos?! Yuck!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Hmmm, I just saw that article a few minutes ago. I even read through it and still don't know what to think. I thought shamrocks were the same thing as clover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Hmmm, I just saw that article a few minutes ago. I even read through it and still don't know what to think. I thought shamrocks were the same thing as clover? Yup, shamrock is just three leaf clover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 One of my favorite lines to this day on St. Patricks day is "Are you Irish? Because my penis is Dublin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 The difference with our celebration of St. Patrick's Day is that it gives us one day, an excuse if you will, to celebrate our Irish heritage. Those folks in Ireland don't need such a thing because they live it, for the most part, on a daily basis. Of course, like everything else we Americans do, the holiday is commercialized. Of course the Irish don't drink green beer. Tis a silly notion to them but to Americans it's just a way to cut loose and have some fun. Whether it's the wearing of the green (even in your hair) or downing massive quantites of corned beef and cabbage or lamb stew, neither of which is hugely popular in Ireland, washed down with green beer or Guiness, Americans have always seemed to have their own way of celebrating a heritage that is totally different from the "old country". That's what's so fun about being a crazy Yank. St. Patrick was a gentleman, Who through strategy and stealth, Drove all the snakes from Ireland, Here's toasting to his health. But not too many toastings, Lest you lose yourself and then, Forget the good St. Patrick And see all those snakes again. Beannachtam na Feile Padraig! (Happy St. Patrick's Day) A pint of Guiness to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 One of my favorite lines to this day on St. Patricks day is "Are you Irish? Because my penis is Dublin." Thanks for that ... for many Irish people St Patrick's Day has a spiritual association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Just another excuse to get blotto here in the US. I'm surprised nobody has come on here and demonized ol' St. Pat for being intolerant of the druids or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 All I know, is I'm Italian, and must wear orange or red on St. Patty's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Just another excuse to get blotto here in the US.I'm surprised nobody has come on here and demonized ol' St. Pat for being intolerant of the druids or something. The Irish church has so much baggage that anything St Patrick did would be low on the list of targets Also ... St Patrick didn't actually introduce Christianity to Ireland. He returned there to minister to Irish Christians as well as to convert the pagans. He is credited with introducing pagan rites into Irish Christianity, such as the sun in the Celtic cross and Easter bonfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 All I know, is I'm Italian, and must wear orange or red on St. Patty's day. Red is one thing ... orange is quite another Some crazy Irish might see orange as offensive, kinda like wearing a Japanese emblem on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Red is one thing ... orange is quite another Some crazy Irish might see orange as offensive, kinda like wearing a Japanese emblem on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. :laugh: I think that's why Italians are supposed to wear orange. Italians and Irish don't exactly get along (old world attitudes towards each other). Also, the orange is a type of protest towards St. Patty's day. My grandmother explaind it to me once, I don't remember exactly the whole thing...I'll google it and get back to you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 All I know, is I'm Italian, and must wear orange or red on St. Patty's day. Yeah...explain that if ya could...orange and red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 One of my favorite lines to this day on St. Patricks day is "Are you Irish? Because my penis is Dublin." I'm a big fan of "Got any Irish in ya? No? Want some?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Yeah...explain that if ya could...orange and red? well red, because we don't all have orange clothing. But from what I can remember after looking for a few articles was Italians protest that Ireland took their Saint. I think he was an Italian, therefore we wear a color closer to us, and the complete opposite of Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 well red, because we don't all have orange clothing. But from what I can remember after looking for a few articles was Italians protest that Ireland took their Saint. I think he was an Italian, therefore we wear a color closer to us, and the complete opposite of Ireland. Could be for several reasons. Obviously, the Irish and Italian flags are very similar; green white and orange for Ireland, and green white and red for Italy. Italians who didn't like the Irish might wear their red to be different. Orange has a different meaning and in Ireland is strongly associated with William of Orange, a Protestant who won major battles against the Catholics, and today with the Orange Order, a Protestant association which is still the source of religious friction in Northern Ireland. I'd never heard of St Patrick being Italian. He is believed to be Welsh. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 heheh ok dual thread tie in time..I wonder how she feels about clubbing seals Hey it's not killing plants. I'm guessing she wouldn't want them clubbed with a shamrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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