Why is America and Isreal hated by most if not all Middle eastern Countries?(poll)

[ashburnskinsfan]

For the mainstream, it's the whole Palestinian thing. Currently Iraq is hightening tensions, but the lack of progress in Israel/Palestine is the key reason.

[Thiebear]

So you really think they would have a problem with us if we completely left them alone? How would the clerics spin the justification for our deaths without the whole global bombing campaign, imperialism and imposing of our values?

See France.

[Air Force Cane]

Many of you are close but still falling for the Arab propoganda machine.

Maybe back in the secular Arab Nationalist days of the 1950's and 1960's- the Arab masses hated the US because we backed Israel and western interests/Colonialism.

Since the 1980's and the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Jihad, and Al-Queda it has morphed into a religious battle now.

Too bad most Americans have not read the Al-Queda planning document- where they first establish a Middle Eastern Caliphate and then defeat Europe, eventually facing off with the US until the whole Dhimmi world submits to Islam.

that is the real threat we face and need to acknowledge it.

[Baculus]

Defintely, a lot of it has to do with the support of Israel, support of regional dictators (we supported them all at one time or another: Sadat, Hussein, the Shah, etc...), and just "Yankee" hubris and arrogance, or perception this arrogance, that some folks generally have of the U.S. The US has not been seen, nor acted in many instances, as a shining "beacon" of freedom in the region.

Regarding the history of Israel, I am not sure how much of you are familiar with the history of the region, but the creation of Israel involved bloodshedding by some of the Euopeans who were attempting to move into the region and form the Palestinian state. (A lot of the Jews that were living in Palestine at this time were not happy about the European Jews, who were outsiders, that were moving into this region in the early history of the state.) Many Palestinians in the region remember incidents where Zionists (I am talking about the recognized militant organization, not the term used by Jewish conspiracists) actually murdered Palestinian villagers to clear them out of the area. I wrote a paper on the early history of the partition and creation of Israel, and it isn't pretty. And this is coming from a person that has long admired the Israeli state, Jewish culture and persistance, and the excellent and well-trained IDF. (Raid on Entebbe was one of my favorite movies as a kid).

I think it just has to be remembered that, inspite of the crazed and murderous nature of Hamas and others, that there IS a reason why some of the Palestinians, curently living in camps but only a few miles away from their former home in Israel / Palestine, have a bitterness towards Israel, which is still a relatively new state. (And this is above and beyond, of course, the history importance and nature of the Israeli state.)

This, of course, does not excuse the suicidal tactics of the Palestinians - negotiations are the only way the conflict will be settled. There is no way they can push Israel into the sea - the West would just not allow it.

[Baculus]

Maybe back in the secular Arab Nationalist days of the 1950's and 1960's- the Arab masses hated the US because we backed Israel and western interests/Colonialism.

That is a good point - the earlier (from the second half of the 20th century) Arab nationalist movements were often, and usually, secular in nature and were more interested in self-determination then religion. Many of them were Socialists and were more familiar with Karl Marx then the Koran. This included folks such as Khaddifi in Libya and Yasser Arafat of the PLO, which had an aim of secular democratic Palestinian state. While I could not call Khaddafi and Arafat "good guys," these men and organization could or can be negotiated with. Why? Because they often had set objectives or political agendas, though they were willing to use violence to achieve these aims.

The newer organizations, which ironically were often supported by the Soviets and the U.S., are religious in nature. And this, unfortunately, can lead to an inflexible world view: "Kill the infidels." Their goals are usually unrealistic, non-negotiable, and fascist in nature. This is a change from the earlier political, secular organizations that were more known in the 50s-80s.

And part of the trouble we are experience is due to U.S policy - anyone that is familiar with the history of the region would have to recognize this. First, we were anti-communist and anti-socialist. What is one of the elements missing in the Middle East? Secularism. And what is that? Because the U.S. wanted to get rid of the Communists and Socialists, some of the few secularists in the region, so we helped some organizations purge their nations of some of the few non-religious, non Pro-US secular elements in the region. Second, as a counter-balance to the Soviets, we started to support these religious groups, such as the core members of Al-Qaeda, as well as dictators such as Saddam, who we first started to support in the 50's when he was a young thug.

It really is a convoluted but fascinating history.

Editing for spelling and grammar.

[Thiebear]

What was the reason in the Sudan?

What's more, in Sudan (Arab) Muslims are ethnically cleansing (non-Arab) fellow Muslims.

Yet the Sudan foreign minister blamed:

drum roll please

Israel.

"Sudan foreign minister blames Israel for escalation of Darfur situation" (Al Bawaba, August 8, 2004). "Sudanese Foreign Minister Musstafa Osman Ismail said Israel was escalating the situation in the western area of Darfur, stressing that his country had information to confirm latest media reports that insurgents there were supported by Israel. Ismail made the statement to reporters upon arrival in Cairo Sunday to attend an extraordinary meeting of Arab Foreign Ministers to find a solution to the Darfur crisis...."

thank you, thank you very much.....

......

[HailYeah]

You do remember that Bush Jr. ran as an isolationist, don't you?

"We are not nation-building" and all that. For about eight months he was pulling us back. Fast.

9-11 still happened. Extremist Muslims don't need our help to work up the hatred.

In no way am I promoting isolationism. I just think the majority of muslims don't buy in to the "they have to die...simply because they are infidels" mentality. Only the extremists do. I think they take real life events and spin that in to their religion. For example, muslims that I met in London were not primarily pissed because we don't believe in their Prophet. In fact they couldn't care less. However the war in Iraq...

I'm NOT trying to make excuses for them hating us. I'm just trying to point out that it is not inherent in their blood, as some people here would most likely suggest.

[chiefhogskin48]

In no way am I promoting isolationism. I just think the majority of muslims don't buy in to the "they have to die...simply because they are infidels" mentality. Only the extremists do. I think they take real life events and spin that in to their religion. For example, muslims that I met in London were not primarily pissed because we don't believe in their Prophet. In fact they couldn't care less. However the war in Iraq...

I'm NOT trying to make excuses for them hating us. I'm just trying to point out that it is not inherent in their blood, as some people here would most likely suggest.

There are a whole lot of assumptions, proclamations (ie "only extremists do") and small anecdotes (ie the Muslims in London) in your argument.

I think the Israel thing, as most have touched on, has by far the most bearing on Islamic opinion of the United States. It seems to always come back to Israel. Remember that they hated us before 9/11. Don't pretend this culture war started just a few years ago... it's been going on for decades now, and will be going on for decades longer no matter how "isolationist" we become. The First Gulf War was by no means an act of American aggression- the Muslim world was as disturbed at what was going on as anyone. Kuwait, after all, was a peaceful Islamic nation that did nothing to precipitate conflict.

[HailYeah]

There are a whole lot of assumptions, proclamations (ie "only extremists do") and small anecdotes (ie the Muslims in London) in your argument.

I should have said, "In my experience I have found this to be true..." the root of hatred of most muslims towards the west is political by nature first and secondly, religious.

[Air Force Cane]

"For the mainstream, it's the whole Palestinian thing. Currently Iraq is hightening tensions, but the lack of progress in Israel/Palestine is the key reason."

that is one of the most ignorant things I have read on this site. After the last four years:

Muslim Chechens murdering Russians

Muslim Filipinos murdering Christian Filipinos

Muslim Indonesians blowing up Australian Christians

Muslims blowing up other Muslims in Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia

Muslim Nigerians murdering Christian Nigerians

Muslims blowing up Spaniards

Muslims blowing up Englishmen

but yet you say the entire problem is the Jews controlling 1.2% of the entire Middle East.

Brilliant!!!:hammer:

[PokerPacker]

Israel is not too fond of Jesus, may want to correct that.

yeah, just change it to "we aren't muslims"

[Shallow1]

Well actually the Jews do not acknoledge Jesus as there savior, thats why God has called them a condemed people. Jews do believe Jesus was a great prophet...

Now as far as why the Muslims hate the Jews that goes back to the (THEORY) that the Muslim nation derives from Ishmael the **** child of Abram, If you read Gen:17,18 and I think 20 you will see how Abram and his wife Saria could not have children so Saria let Abram sleep with her Egyptian handmaided (witch was out of the will of God) and she gave birth to Ishmael...God then spoke to Abram and said he (loose translation) will bear many children and be the father of a nation. He was then known as Abraham and his wife known as Sarah, now they were both 90 years old plus and though this was impossible but it happend. God said since Ishmael was born out of the will of God he would not get Abrahams inheritance but will recieve a "great nation" , well time goes on and basically Ishmael mocks his siblings and Sarah gets tired of seeing her husbands son from another woman hanging around and God tells Abraham to send the handmaiden and Ishmael away. They go away and the speculation is Ishmaels was the ancestor of mohammed and the bitterness and hate the Muslim religion teaches toward the Jews is a result of being sent away and therefore not recieving the inheritance God promised for the decendance of Abraham. So basically it leaves you with an angry, fatherless child that wants to get back at the sibling that got all the inheritance (jews) and since the US (predominatly Christian and God asks Christians to honor his people "jews" even though they are condemed) has always backed the Jews we are hated as well. This is just a theory....like evolution..

I studied world religions in length in college....but really you have to reaseach it yourself.....

[Air Force Cane]

Was that post above in English?

And if you studied religions you need to get a refund-

Mainline Judaism does not view Jesus as a prophet...

[ashburnskinsfan]

"For the mainstream, it's the whole Palestinian thing. Currently Iraq is hightening tensions, but the lack of progress in Israel/Palestine is the key reason."

that is one of the most ignorant things I have read on this site. After the last four years:

Muslim Chechens murdering Russians

Muslim Filipinos murdering Christian Filipinos

Muslim Indonesians blowing up Australian Christians

Muslims blowing up other Muslims in Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia

Muslim Nigerians murdering Christian Nigerians

Muslims blowing up Spaniards

Muslims blowing up Englishmen

but yet you say the entire problem is the Jews controlling 1.2% of the entire Middle East.

Brilliant!!!:hammer:

You missed my point entirely ... not surprisingly given your other posts. The question was asked why most if not all of the Middle East hates Israel and the USA. I didn't say this hatred is justified by what has happened in Palestine, but the Palestinian problem has been a rallying cry for Middle Eastern leaders to direct hatred towards Israel and the USA. If that problem was solved I expect Chechnya and any other number of causes would be the rallying cry to keep the fanatics away from dealing with problems in their own countries.

[Shallow1]

Was that post above in English?

And if you studied religions you need to get a refund-

Mainline Judaism does not view Jesus as a prophet...

I cant believe I wrote that? I was typing fast and trying to recall the theory, the Jews do not belive he is a great prophet,...they do acknowlege he existed and was believed to be the messiah by Christains,....the rest was just a theory...

[HailYeah]

There are a whole lot of assumptions, proclamations (ie "only extremists do") and small anecdotes (ie the Muslims in London) in your argument.

I think the Israel thing, as most have touched on, has by far the most bearing on Islamic opinion of the United States. It seems to always come back to Israel. Remember that they hated us before 9/11. Don't pretend this culture war started just a few years ago... it's been going on for decades now, and will be going on for decades longer no matter how "isolationist" we become. The First Gulf War was by no means an act of American aggression- the Muslim world was as disturbed at what was going on as anyone. Kuwait, after all, was a peaceful Islamic nation that did nothing to precipitate conflict.

Also, would it not be an assumption than to say that muslims hate us because we have freedom. This assumes that all or most muslims actually are "freedom hating" people. That is something I can never seem to get my head around. My assumption, that the majority of muslims view us as political enemies, seems less far-fetched, to me at least.

Your second point is well-taken. Islamic fundamentalists did hate us before 9/11 happened. Thats why it happened. And I would argue that the driving force behind their hatred was our foreign policy, not because our women wear skimpy clothing. Of course they don't like that either, but they didn't declare war because of that. So to say, as Henry did, that they do not need us to fuel their hatred is not entirely accurate. Sure, they would still otherwise look at us in disgust but in order for muslim leaders encourage the kind of hatred needed to bring muslims together in a global jihad campaign, they absolutely need our help to justify it.

[skinfan133]

terrible poll, you forgot other, which by the way i would have chosen becuase its the effin europeans of the middle ages fault. the crusades surprisingly are still on their minds along with 1900's colonialism from europe; thats why and all smart people know that.

example: when george bush called the war on terror a "just crusade" everyone over there went nuts saying there they go again. thats why they hate the occupation, they dont understand we are trying to help, they think we are making them a possesion.

[chomerics]

Henry, Lucky and Chopper Dave had most of the reasons covered. Imperialism, then Blowback, then support of Israel in that order. We've been meddling in their affairs for the past 30 years, and it was Europe before us. This poll considered not one of those options.

[skinfan133]

Henry, Lucky and Chopper Dave had most of the reasons covered. Imperialism, then Blowback, then support of Israel in that order. We've been meddling in their affairs for the past 30 years, and it was Europe before us. This poll considered not one of those options.

thanks for stating what i already did right above yours:D

[Pskins]

None of the above!

- the Isreal question is long and complicated. Just because of religion is a sophmoric

answer to a very tricky question. (the Wars of the '60s and '70s didn't help).

This problem goes back for Millennia. That worthless piece of dirt has been fought

over since the fall of the Roman Empire.

- 1.the u.s is hated for our repeated ,I dare say, criminal and highly dubious dealings in

the Arab world, for oil of course.

- 2. The U.S. has for decades supplied Israel with weapons and planes etc. The Arabs

see this as a approval of Israels actions (regardless if you believe they are right or

wrong). Don't put your own religious beliefs as that of the rest of the world. Israel

has been far from innocent in the mideast crisis.

- 3. Unless a permanent solution (alternative to oil) is found we will be dealing with

this for decades to come. Once Israel and the Arab world realize they don't matter

anymore they will, I hope, change the way they do business.

[Thiebear]

Henry, Lucky and Chopper Dave had most of the reasons covered. Imperialism, then Blowback, then support of Israel in that order. We've been meddling in their affairs for the past 30 years, and it was Europe before us. This poll considered not one of those options.

I'm sure India was meddling also:

In other parts of Asia and Europe, the conquered nations quickly opted for conversion to Islam rather than death. But in India, because of the staunch resistance of the 4000 year old Hindu faith, the Muslim conquests were for the Hindus a pure struggle between life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and their populations massacred. Each successive campaign brought hundreds of thousands of victims and similar numbers were deported as slaves. Every new invader made often literally his hill of Hindu skulls. Thus the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000, was followed by the annihilation of the entire Hindu population there; indeed, the region is still called Hindu Kush, 'Hindu slaughter'. The Bahmani sultans in central India, made it a rule to kill 100.000 Hindus a year. In 1399, Teimur killed 100.000 Hindus IN A SINGLE DAY, and many more on other occasions. Koenraad Elst quotes Professor K.S. Lal's "Growth of Muslim population in India", who writes that according to his calculations, the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION between the year 1000 and 1525. INDEED PROBABLY THE BIGGEST HOLOCAUST IN THE WHOLE WORLD HISTORY. (Negat.34)

But the "pagans" were far too numerous to kill them all; and Hinduism too well entrenched in her people's soul, never really gave up, but quietly retreated in the hearts of the pious and was preserved by the Brahmins' amazing oral powers. Thus, realising that they would never be able to annihilate the entire Indian population and that they could not convert all the people, the Muslims rulers, particularly under the Hanifite law, allowed the pagans to become "zimmis" (protected ones) under 20 humiliating conditions, with the heavy "jizya", the toleration tax, collected from them.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/5142/negislamindia.html

I'm sure we can come up with several wars / genocides that had nothing to do with United States/Israeli occupation of the last 60 years.