Skeletor The Invincible Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 What's the deal with this guy? It can't be just about the money, can it? Maybe he just hates the Chargers? Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Smoot Fan Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 If he goes back into the draft maybe we can pick him up it never hurts to have 3 instead of 2 shutdown corners seeing how DG is finally retiring and Rashard "the toast" Bauman isn't cutting the mustard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J33Edwards Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 why are they offering less then what pick number 6 got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCS:BraveCaringSoul Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 Jammer does have a point-- the 6th pick shouldn't get a bigger signingn bonus than the 5th but the economics of waitingn a year and going backc into the draft just don't make sense. Sometimes it's the agents job to protect his player and let him know that it's better to declare victory-- take the 12.6 mil andlive to fight another day. This really makes the Ramsey thing seem like chcilds play inn retrospect. Reprinted for the lazy, inbred, and bandwidth challegened: Thursday, September 5 Jammer remains unsigned by Chargers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Associated Press SAN DIEGO -- Cornerback Quentin Jammer is ready to sit out the season rather than accept the San Diego Chargers' contract offer, the player's agent said. Jammer, the fifth pick overall in April's draft, is seeking a deal that would pay $13.5 million during the first three seasons. The Chargers are offering $12.6 million. Defensive tackle Ryan Sims, taken by Kansas City with the sixth pick, signed last week for a reported $13 million in the first three seasons. "He's not going to take less than pick six,'' agent Mike Sullivan said. "If they refuse, we really don't have any choice'' but to sit out. "From our perspective, it appears that it's been proven we've been asking for a fair deal all along.'' The agent said he's prepared to line up a personal trainer and a coach to work with Jammer if he sits out the season and re-enters the draft next year. Jammer is the highest unsigned draft pick. The Chargers, who've lost 26 of their last 32 games, envisioned Jammer as a starter when they drafted him out of Texas. Chargers general manager John Butler was curt while discussing Jammer on Thursday, saying that ``nothing whatsoever'' was going on in the negotiations. "I don't care about that,'' Butler said about Jammer's threat to sit out the season. "I have no response to that.'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboykilla Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Fred Smoot Fan, What the hell are you talking about Rashad for? He got picked on in ONE game against some decent NFL receivers from the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots. He's a GD rookie for god's sake. He has been showing some promise throughout training camp and even in the early preseason games. He's okay man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Bauman is limited by his size at 5-8 and 170, and in the NFL in this day and age with the size of the receivers may be a #3 receiver during his NFL career. We will have to see how he progresses, but if Champ or Smoot leaves or gets hurt, I think we will have to be in the market for a true starting corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Guess whose taking interest. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/cowboys/stories/090602dnspocowjammer.6b99e.html Cowboys interested in Jammer Jones talks to Chargers about trading for rights to holdout cornerback 09/06/2002 By JEAN-JACQUES TAYLOR / The Dallas Morning News IRVING – Cowboys owner/general manger Jerry Jones said he recently spoke with San Diego general manager John Butler to see if the Chargers would consider trading the rights to first-round pick Quentin Jammer. Jammer, the fifth player selected in the draft, is one of three first-round picks who has not signed a contract. He is the highest unsigned draft pick. "I talked with John Butler about a myriad of things, including Quentin because he hasn't been signed," said Jones, "but I got no indication at all that they're going to do anything other than bring him in or let him go back into the draft next year. They said they wanted to sign him. Trading him was not a consideration." Jones said he never made a formal trade offer to the Chargers. "Part of my job is to talk to clubs who haven't signed players and see if we can't get something going," Jones said. "You just register in with the club to let them know you're interested, but you don't want to affect their negotiations in any way. Jammer is big enough to play bump-and-run coverage at the line of scrimmage and fast enough to run with the league's fleetest receivers. Pro scouts compared him to Champ Bailey and Charles Woodson, two of the best young cornerbacks in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Nice. I'm pretty sure I suggested Jerrah look into trading for Quentin a few weeks ago. I don't see how it could possibly work under the rookie cap now, which is completely used up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted September 6, 2002 Author Share Posted September 6, 2002 Uhhh I don't think Jammer CAN be traded... The Collective Bargaining Agreement states that any drafted rookie who has not signed a contract by the 30th day before the regular season begins cannot be traded at all during his rookie season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Yeah, I think I mentioned that too (cant remember). It would have to be a sign and trade, but I was under the impression that it would still be under the rookie cap, and the trade would have really bad cap consequences for the Chargers with the accel. bonus unless something really weird went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 The deadline to trade rookie draft picks was way back on a Wednesday just before Ramsey signed here. If there was more time I suspect Ramsey would have been traded. While I'm not surprised Jerry hasn't read the CBA, I'm equally not surprised that he would be interested in Jammer. Afterall, as we all well know, he is the player they most wanted in the first place to fill a critical need that is still largely unfilled. They had hoped he would have fallen to them, and making an effort to get him now makes perfect sense. It'd be a good football move if the CBA didn't forbid it. That the CBA does kind of makes me wonder why the GM of the Cowboys doesn't know that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 I would NOT want to see Jammer go to Dallas. That secondary would be SICK in three years. They would be a nightmare to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROSTY28 Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 In retrospect, maybe the Chargers shouldn't have given Tim Dwight and Stephen Alexander fifteen million dollar contracts. I guess Marty liked the way Stephen limped to the sidelines after every dropped catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 if they really wanted to they could probably do a sign and trade, the cap implications would be complicated though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Shawn, The CBA expressly states that rookie picks can't be traded after a certain date. Here's the language. From the CBA, Article XVI, College Draft, Section 4, part b If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the beginning of the regular season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs with such player for the player’s initial League Year; and (ii) the Club that drafted the player is the only Club with which the player may sign a Player Contract until the day of the Draft in the subsequent League Year, at which time such player is eligible to be drafted in the subsequent League Year’s Draft by any Club except the Club that drafted him in the initial Draft. (After the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, the player and the Club may only sign a Player Contract for future League Year(s)). It is impossible to trade for Jammer until after the season is complete. Again, it begs the question why the Cowboys GM is unfamiliar with the agreement the Cowboys owner signed, especially since they are the same guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Originally posted by Art Again, it begs the question why the Cowboys GM is unfamiliar with the agreement the Cowboys owner signed, especially since they are the same guy? Uh, maybe it's the in-breeding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Originally posted by Art Shawn, The CBA expressly states that rookie picks can't be traded after a certain date. Here's the language. From the CBA, Article XVI, College Draft, Section 4, part b If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the beginning of the regular season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs with such player for the player’s initial League Year; and (ii) the Club that drafted the player is the only Club with which the player may sign a Player Contract until the day of the Draft in the subsequent League Year, at which time such player is eligible to be drafted in the subsequent League Year’s Draft by any Club except the Club that drafted him in the initial Draft. (After the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, the player and the Club may only sign a Player Contract for future League Year(s)). It is impossible to trade for Jammer until after the season is complete. Again, it begs the question why the Cowboys GM is unfamiliar with the agreement the Cowboys owner signed, especially since they are the same guy? Art, What makes you think Jerry Jones doesn't already know that Jammer is untradable this season, but is actually planting the seeds for a possible sign and trade prior to next years draft. Actually Jerry Jones was on the Norm Hitgzes show this morning and stated that an agreement could be made with the player and agent to sign a contract with the Chargers void of any signing bonus and subsequently renegotitated when he officially becomes a Cowboy. Of course it would be a deal signed on good faith. Any deal signed after the 10th week will have to be for future or subsequent years. Keep speculating about whether Jerry Jones knows this or that. The fact is for the past month Jerry Jones has been exploring ways to (eventually) make Jammer a Cowboy. He is ahead of the 8-ball. So whilst you scoff at his every move just realize that Danny Boy is using Jerry Jones blue print to TRY build the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Maybe if they hadn't given Stephen Alexander a huge contract, they would have some money left over to give to their #1 draft choice. they had to realize that Jammer was going to want to be paid as well as the other guys drafted around him. So far, I don't think anyone has overpaid a first round pick. I wish I could blame this all on Marty, but it doesn't look like he's making the personel decsiions like last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Q, the idea I have that Jerry doesn't know the rules is because he said so. IRVING – Cowboys owner/general manger Jerry Jones said he recently spoke with San Diego general manager John Butler to see if the Chargers would consider trading the rights to first-round pick Quentin Jammer. Jammer, the fifth player selected in the draft, is one of three first-round picks who has not signed a contract. He is the highest unsigned draft pick. "I talked with John Butler about a myriad of things, including Quentin because he hasn't been signed," said Jones, "but I got no indication at all that they're going to do anything other than bring him in or let him go back into the draft next year. They said they wanted to sign him. Trading him was not a consideration." When interviewed yesterday he said what he did. At some point someone must have told him the league rules so this morning he talks on the radio about having a player sign a no signing bonus contract, and, apparently, having him play all year in San Diego, only to be traded after the year to the Cowboys who would later renegotiate that player's contract. Gosh, and here I thought Jones only didn't know the CBA. It turns out he's also in Wonderland. Thanks for clearing that up Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Originally posted by Art When interviewed yesterday he said what he did. At some point someone must have told him the league rules so this morning he talks on the radio about having a player sign a no signing bonus contract, and, apparently, having him play all year in San Diego, only to be traded after the year to the Cowboys who would later renegotiate that player's contract. At some point......... . Could it be 13 years ago, back when the Cowboys organization thorughly understood the CBA agreement and ochestrated some of the greatest trades to build a dynasty or could it be this morning to further justify the great Art's opinion that Jerry Jones is clueless. Who knows? Originally posted by Art Gosh, and here I thought Jones only didn't know the CBA. It turns out he's also in Wonderland. Thanks for clearing that up Q. Yep, A wonder land where you totally dominate you're Arch rival in rebuilding years and rack up 3 championships whilst they roam in no man land. Anytime Art!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 That was jimmy johnson that did the herschel walker trade to the viqueens and then the S Walsh trade not jerrah. And Jerrah could be liable for tampering when talking about another teams free agent/ draftee coming to his team during contract negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Originally posted by NavyDave That was jimmy johnson that did the herschel walker trade to the viqueens and then the S Walsh trade not jerrah. Jerry Jones had to pay Herschel Walker 1 million dollars to finalize the trade. It was the money that made the deal. Steve Walsh was Jimmy Johnson's pick to lead the team into the future, I wonder how that turned out. Originally posted by NavyDave And Jerrah could be liable for tampering when talking about another teams free agent/ draftee coming to his team during contract negotiations. [/b] Quentin Jammer is not a Charger. Jerry Jones can inquire about the rights to Jammer as long as he remains unsigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Actually, Q, no, it couldn't have been 13 years ago, because Jones was asking about present day trades. I know the Cowboys have always wanted Jammer and had him targeted in the draft, but, the desperation to solidify the corner spot seems to have made Jones ask a stupid question and when he discovered he couldn't do what he wanted he started telling a fairy tale. I realize that in the small world of the Dallas Cowboys these stories are believed and somehow a 5-11 team is seen as "good" because they beat an 8-8 team, but, the rest of us just shake our heads in awe and wonder at that delusion you are so willing to share. But, to be clear here, your position is that Jones completely knows the CBA and he wasn't asking for the rights to Jammer today, but, rather, the agreement that Jammer agree to sign a no bonus contract, play the year in San Diego, then be traded at the end of the season to the Cowboys who would then honor the "gentleman's" agreement to give him the signing bonus he couldn't get before? Again, thanks for clearing up what Jones REALLY meant . Hell, I can't even make fun of the guy as well as you can tell me exactly what he's thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Oh, Q, did you just say, "Quentin Jammer is not a Charger. Jerry Jones can inquire about the rights to Jammer as long as he remains unsigned." The CBA says he can't inquire about the rights to Jammer because only the Chargers have rights to Jammer. Nothing the Cowboys could offer in the whole world would give them rights to Jammer. Once the 30th day before the start of the season passed, no one could inquire with the Chargers about the rights to Jammer because ONLY one team has those rights until next year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Originally posted by Art Actually, Q, no, it couldn't have been 13 years ago, because Jones was asking about present day trades. I know the Cowboys have always wanted Jammer and had him targeted in the draft, but, the desperation to solidify the corner spot seems to have made Jones ask a stupid question and when he discovered he couldn't do what he wanted he started telling a fairy tale. Nice to know your opinion again. But the facts are Jerry Jones was ochestrating trades and signed pay checks to finalize trades long time ago. He has 3 trophies to show. You're opinion and many others are just a fart in the wind, bad stink when emmitted, but eventually fade away. Originally posted by Art I realize that in the small world of the Dallas Cowboys these stories are believed and somehow a 5-11 team is seen as "good" because they beat an 8-8 team, but, the rest of us just shake our heads in awe and wonder at that delusion you are so willing to share. Jerry Jones doesn't expect you ( Redskin Fan) to understand the intricancies of what it takes to build a DallasCowboys dynasty. Jerry has. In that fact, Jerry's opinions carry more weight than yours. Originally posted by Art But, to be clear here, your position is that Jones completely knows the CBA and he wasn't asking for the rights to Jammer today, but, rather, the agreement that Jammer agree to sign a no bonus contract, play the year in San Diego, then be traded at the end of the season to the Cowboys who would then honor the "gentleman's" agreement to give him the signing bonus he couldn't get before? Again, thanks for clearing up what Jones REALLY meant . Hell, I can't even make fun of the guy as well as you can tell me exactly what he's thinking. [/b] "Jerry Jones stated that a deal COULD be made if Jammer and his agent.........." Jerry was explaining to US (cowboy fans) what would be required to get this kind of deal done. Who said anything about Jammer playing in San Diego this year? YOU DID. Jammer does not have to play for the Chargers, he can sign a no bonus contract (for subsequent years) after the 10th week of the season to facilitate a trade with Dallas after the season. It would have no hit on the Charge's salary cap. I stated that Jerry Jones laid out the parameters required to get a sign and trade done prior to next years draft. Keep guessing and speculating as to what Jerry Knows and doesn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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