Documents Show Army Seized Wives As Tactic

[Kilmer17]

While I dont think there is anything LEGALLY wrong with doing this, I dont quite understand the logic.

I was under the impression that the militant Islam that we are fighting demeans, belittles and basically forces women into a subservient role. And, that is one of the reasons (not the main one, just on of the extras) we're fighting the war.

As such, wouldnt one assume that the women of these terrorists would fall into this position? And wouldnt we think they wouldnt know anything other than to shut their mouths and do what their husbands, dads, brothers etc told them?

I guess I just dont see the point.

[Larry]

Stop using war as a political platform for your left wing agenda,it gets old and shows how 2 faced you are.

[DCRunner]

....Terrorism doesn't threaten the survival of this country. It definatly has the ability to make us less comfortable. But the terrorists can't conquer the US, or any other country. (Although they do seem to have come pretty close in Palestine and Iran.)

The only people I see threatining the survival of this country (at least, in the form it's had for the last 200 years) is you.

The terrorists can't toss the Constitution in the paper shreader. People like you can. The terrorists can't eliminate american freedom. But you want to.

America isn't two buildings in New York. America is "you have the right to remain silent", "you need to get a warrant", and "innocent untill proven guilty".

America is "Yeah, I think Michael Jackson is a child molestor, but the jury didn't think so, and so that's the way it is."

-----

Yes, I remember 9/11.

9/11 was a publicity stunt.

The terrorists didn't destroy those buildings because they thought that if the NYSE building got destroyed, then the entire US economy would cease to exist. They didn't crash a plane into the Pentagon because they thought that if the Pentagon were destroyed, then the USS Nimitz would vanish in a puff of smoke. Those targets were picked because they were symbols.

The target on 9/11 wasn't a few buildings, the target was the minds of the american citizens. They didn't think that destroying the Pentagon would eliminate the entire US military. They thought that eliminating the Pentagon would scare the people, and the people would eliminate the US military. They didn't think destroying the WTC would cripple the economy. They thought destroying the WTC sould scare the people into crippling the economy.

(And they were correct. The economic damage of 9/11 wasn't because it cost a lot of money to clean up the debris of a few buildings. The economic damage was because millions of people cancelled their family trips to Disney. And because a lot of people stayed home from work because they were scared.)

In short, the purpose of 9/11 was to scare the American people into demanding that their government protect them, by changing the US into something it wasn't. The terrorists can't do that, only the people can.

Terrorism is, in fact, the attempt to change the actions of a country by frightening the people of that country into exercising their controll over their government, and forcing the government to change. (It's literally making war on a country my attacking the people in charge of that country: It's citizens.)

And you've bought it.

Very good, Larry. Very good.

[chomerics]

There is a huge difference between a civilian German Jew thrown into a concentration camp and a Muslim terriost who is put to death. We are at war with these people and need to treat it as such.

Read the quote I was referring to, and the you will better understand what i was saying. The context of my post was spot on.

[Mad Mike]

9/11 was a publicity stunt.

Really? You want to tell that to the three thousand americans who died that day? But you can't can you. Because THEIR rights were permanantly revoked.

[chomerics]

As a whole yes whoever uses war for their political agenda is just a scumbag in my book,no matter if its on the left or right.Furthermore the USA has brave men and women who fight for survival every day in the worst part of the world and should use every means available to ensure their survival.Chomerics is not sincere or truly bothered that the Army seizes family members ,its top notch BS.

Yes, you think you know who I am by saying I'm not "sincere" about our constitution, our laws or our freedoms. Maybe if you actually read what I have posted, and understood WHY this is so freakin wrong, you could actually learn something.

Whether you agree with war or not the fact remains that we have sons and daughters and mothers and fathers that are fighting for survival everyday and need our support.I have yet to see Chomerics start a thread about something positive our troops do .Reason being is that he is a Liberal and has made it his mission to discredit The Bush Administration on anything it does.

That's because you haven't looked. I back the soldiers whole heartedly, you just fail to see it because you are not looking for it. I have stated many many times I am against this war BECAUSE of the soldiers we are loosing. Maybe if you cleared the fog, you would understand why.

Here is a few questions for you, how come all of the soldiers who are Iraqi war vets and are running for public office are all democrats? How come the democrats are the ones who have put in over 10 bills in the past year to SUPPORT the troops, only to be voted down by the neo-cons?

Maybe if you can find the answers to those questions, you will understand my position a lot better. . .

1 more point, when you preface your argument by saying anyone who would politicizr this war is scum, thenyou go on in your next sentence and politicize the war, you are in essence calling yourself a scumbag. . . just thought might like to know what you think about yourself.

[Mad Mike]

Funny, I don't remember us declaring that we were at war with Muslims.

I need to keep up to date on "these people".

He said Muslim terrorist. YOU are the one who dropped the terrorist part. How about a little intelectual honesty.

[chomerics]

Really? You want to tell that to the three thousand americans who died that day? But you can't can you. Because THEIR rights were permanantly revoked.

I guess the entire premise of Larry's post, which was spot on was missed by you Mike.

I would suggest you re-read his post and look at what he was referring to, because it WAS a publicity stunt. Why have one plane follow the other 15 minutes after? because every camera in NYC would be looking at the two towers, and they would catch the next one in graphic horror? Why attack the symbols of liberty?

Spot on Larry yet again, great post

[dreamingwolf]

must attack Bush, any chance possible must attack Bush. Must say effort is evil, terrorists must be given criminal berth so they can opperate freely. Must make people feel guiltly for supporting Bush, our ideas are not good enough we must win them otherways.

Ya know I miss the days when both partys were filled with good ideas. When a party could be waging a war over seas and say have to fire bomb a city and indiscriminately kill lots of their people to make the enemy crumble before us. It sucks that the partys have been allowed to roll to the extremes to the point where we dont care whats in our interest, we only care how we can justify attacking the opponents administration and boondoggling their efforts. Even the repubs do it, I remember the kosovo campaign(I wasnt fond of helping a terror org, but I kept my mouth shut) and was embarrassed about the political haymaking going on.

You gotta ask yourself whose side your on. One can argue that people would have been the same way if they knew all the truths about wwii, but the reason nobody did was cause there was no market for those truths then. The only one spitting those truths was the enemy and it was discarded by us.

Propaganda is a war tool, and today we are the only ones who weild it against ourselves. The reason? Political capital.

[luckydevil]

. When a party could be waging a war over seas and say have to fire bomb a city and indiscriminately kill lots of their people to make the enemy crumble before us.

I know killing innocent people is so fun. I miss the days when it was acceptable to dehumanize an entire race of people. Those were the days.

War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, Ignorance Is Strength. How dare those evil leftists question big brother, even when they are right.

[dreamingwolf]

I know killing innocent people is so fun. I miss the days when it was acceptable to dehumanize an entire race of people. Those were the days.

War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, Ignorance Is Strength. How dare those evil leftists question big brother, even when they are right.

It was never said that war is pretty, that war is about making those who know it feel warm and cozy. You hate the administration you will propagate the enemies propaganda, that is the world today in America. Left or Right. Anyone who supports the nation is either a jingoist or a jack boot of big brother. If the admin f's with citizens the support drops some, see political.

I understand your point of view, and technically I dont disagree with you. You are probably the only honest one in this thread. I doubt any of our resident lefties would be posting what they are if it was a dem administration. You are an isolationist and I respect that and wont argue against that view point. But defending the leftys cause they agree with you at this period in time cause its a repub admin devalues your convictions and you should rethink that. I know its cheap capital, but as william s burroughs once said "an old drug dealer once told me, becarefull whose money you pick up".

You are consistantly non-intervention and you shouldnt hold hands with people who are only non-intervention when its the other teams ball. Isolationists and pacifists I respect, its the political capitalists in war time that I find untoward.

[chomerics]

It was never said that war is pretty, that war is about making those who know it feel warm and cozy. You hate the administration you will propagate the enemies propaganda, that is the world today in America. Left or Right. Anyone who supports the nation is either a jingoist or a jack boot of big brother. If the admin f's with citizens the support drops some, see political.

I understand your point of view, and technically I dont disagree with you. You are probably the only honest one in this thread. I doubt any of our resident lefties would be posting what they are if it was a dem administration. You are an isolationist and I respect that and wont argue against that view point. But defending the leftys cause they agree with you at this period in time cause its a repub admin devalues your convictions and you should rethink that. I know its cheap capital, but as william s burroughs once said "an old drug dealer once told me, becarefull whose money you pick up".

You are consistantly non-intervention and you shouldnt hold hands with people who are only non-intervention when its the other teams ball. Isolationists and pacifists I respect, its the political capitalists in war time that I find untoward.

Just curious wolf, how do ou know what we would stand for if a liberal was president? I can honestly say that I would be just as vehimetly opposed, if not MORE vocal against the policies because it is what I supposedly believe in. It isn't about politics, but about what MY ideology is, and if a left person was acting like a tyrant, then I would be just as opposed if not moreso.

[DCRunner]

Really? You want to tell that to the three thousand americans who died that day? But you can't can you. Because THEIR rights were permanantly revoked.

MM, surely you know that Larry was referring to the terrorist's point of view not the victims. And he's right, you know. It's all about symbolism for the terrorists. They want to attack what they think we represent or what means most to us. As a DC resident, I wish I could convince them that corn fields are the true meaning of America. We Americans love our corn - even more than our freedoms. Spread the word.

[dreamingwolf]

Just curious wolf, how do ou know what we would stand for if a liberal was president? I can honestly say that I would be just as vehimetly opposed, if not MORE vocal against the policies because it is what I supposedly believe in. It isn't about politics, but about what MY ideology is, and if a left person was acting like a tyrant, then I would be just as opposed if not moreso.

cause there was zero out cry from the left durring kosovo. There was zero reason that kosovo was more imperitive than iraq from a non-political view. Im not saying you directly(although judging by your obsession I would say you do fit what I claim) are spreading enemy propaganda cause of politics, Im just saying that its the way of the world today in America. The party is more important than the nation.

If you want me to look at you especially chomo I will. You hate Bush in a way which in my opinion is unhealthy, I cant imagine spending the time to opine about every little detail about a person that you invest in Bush. Also you come across as not a ***** roll over type of person, so I dont peg you as a true pacifist. I also get from your postings that you understand that isolationism in our current state is just a speed bump, there I could be wrong.

So in conclusion I would imagine you would have been pro kosovo cause it was an action that needed to be done, even though the gain for the nation was naught. Same as iraq, but iraq was Republican so you didnt like it. I didnt like kosovo, Im willing to admit to that. The difference between me and you was I didnt opine about it although many republicans did and I didnt like that either.

Now if people were willing to say they are pacifists and isolationist thats fine. However you dont say that, and even if you said who knows how you will stand in the future. Its the same with my claim, I cant prove I remained silent durring kosovo. I wish I had saved a professors web page, he was a pacifist and he opined about how he couldnt get people to protest the war with him.

So Im not saying your not a pacifist and Im not saying your not an isolationist, Im only saying that your propagating enemy propaganda without stating that your a pacifist or an isolationist. in other words your doing it politicaly. If you can some how tell me how kosovo was a better intervention than Iraq I would like to hear that one.

[nelms]

I know killing innocent people is so fun. I miss the days when it was acceptable to dehumanize an entire race of people. Those were the days.

War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, Ignorance Is Strength. How dare those evil leftists question big brother, even when they are right.

Who said killing innocent people is fun? Stop twisting people's words around because you disagree with them. You did that with me when you basically called me racist without any basis in fact. You are a joke.

[Prosperity]

Who said killing innocent people is fun? Stop twisting people's words around because you disagree with them. You did that with me when you basically called me racist without any basis in fact. You are a joke.

You have on several occasion advocated killing innocent people. No one needs to twists your words Nelms, they are twisted when they come out and you usually end up hanging yourself with them.

[Larry]

I doubt any of our resident lefties would be posting what they are if it was a dem administration.

So, how many "resident lefties" have opposed the invasion of Afghanistan (by a Republican administration)?

I'll point out that at least this "resident lefty" (I think I can assume I'm one of those straw men) wasn't opposed to attacking Iraq. (My position was "He'd better have a good reason. He doesn't have to show it now, but he's going to have to show it sooner or later." and "I'll agree that the creation of a liberal (in the sense of "they have a Bill of Rights", not "socialised medicine"), prosperous, democracy in that region could do more damage to the terrorists cause that anything else in the world. If, 20 years from now, Iraq is building walls around their boarder because they're being overrun by Iranians and Saudis sneaking accross the border, because they'd rather be Iraqis, then it'll all be worth it. But I don't think it can be done. I think the real-world result of "nation building" will be another Shah. Followed, many years later, by another Ayatollah.")

I was even willing to concede that it was possible that Bush's motives were completely noble and honorable. That maybe he simply had a vision os a mideast democracy.

(See, I wasn't opposed to the war. I'm opposed to a Presidential dictatorship, secret torture camps, disapearing citizens, Men In Black kidnappings, and, in this case, kidnapping wives as a technique of capturing husbands.)

-----

However, after rambling off of my original point:

My #1 piece of evidence to disprove your contention that the only possible reason for opposing our actions is political power, I offer defense exhibit 1: Afghanistan.

[Larry]

As a DC resident, I wish I could convince them that corn fields are the true meaning of America. We Americans love our corn - even more than our freedoms. Spread the word.

No, no, no.

You're thinking of Porn.

[nelms]

You have on several occasion advocated killing innocent people. No one needs to twists your words Nelms, they are twisted when they come out and you usually end up hanging yourself with them.

No, that was YOU putting words into my mouth. I've advocated punishing our enemies, whatever means necessary to get the job done. Thank god you're only a kid sitting in a dorm room, because you would have this country cowering in a corner as our terrorist enemies plotted their next attack.