Brunell is injured: 2004 all over again (merged)

[TheSteve]

And you're delusional if you think Brunell had nothing to do with 101 points the Skins scored in their last 3 regular season games.

If you'll point me to where I said that I'll be happy to retract it. But chances are since you have no grounds for your stance you're just putting words in my mouth. A bad QB can still have a hand in points scored. The truth is, Brunell hasn't played well the last few weeks. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[Drex]

And you're delusional if you think Brunell had nothing to do with 101 points the Skins scored in their last 3 regular season games.

Thankfully, the defense has become an opportunistic unit, forcing 9 turnovers over the span of the last two games. Those turnovers have either turned into touchdowns or put us in a better position on a short field to score touchdowns.

I'd attribute alot of the 101 points to the defense's opportunistic ways and the running game than to Brunell.

[-mando-]

people are blind if they think brunell has played well the past few weeks except for the dallas game..

[Seabee1973]

He injured his shoulder the series before his knees got injured in the giants game on a block and his next 2 passes were way off the mark if you ask me. then last week he had good time to throw the deep pass but his throws wernt pretty and his short to medium passes were horible most of the game. then yesterdau all his pases were horrible ill advised one at the end of the game bouncing in front of the reciever. till he shows me ill have my doubts.

[TheSteve]

OK, to answer the many responses,

As to Brunells' ducks and overthrows, when you get a 14 point lead, there's no reason to try to squeeze one in and maybe get it picked and give the Bucs a short field.. when in doubt, throw it out. Punt, play field posision, and rely on your lights-out defense to hold your lead. Put the pressure on winning the game on the young QB who's never played in a playoff game.

It just COULD be his overthrows are on purpose to avoid a potential disaster. Not to lull an opponent to sleep, but to give them nothing to build on like a turnover.

~Bang

Wait, so Brunell was intentionally not executing on plays where the reciever was open(I'm not talking about squeezing in passes to covered players here Bang) so that he wouldn't throw apick or make a mistake? :doh: If that's true Brunell should not be playing period. Since when do you want your QB not to throw to an open person? That's being conservative to the extreme. Geez Bang you're really taking this glass half full approach to the extreme. Sure, Brunell overthrew a wide open moss and an open Moss on a curl route to avoid potential disaster. :laugh:

If that's how you see it.

[grampi]

If you'll point me to where I said that I'll be happy to retract it. But chances are since you have no grounds for your stance you're just putting words in my mouth. A bad QB can still have a hand in points scored. The truth is, Brunell hasn't played well the last few weeks. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

That statement was made as general point, not as a quote. You're right, Brunell hasn't played well the last several weeks, but it's not because he's hurt, it's because the Skins have been playing against good defenses.

[BlueTalon]

Wasn't it Brunell's HAMSTRING that was hurt last year, not his KNEE? I think he is fine physically. His performance yesterday was dictated by our defense get us out to an early 14 point lead. As far as that throw that came up way short late in the game, he has been doing that all year...he gets tight as a drum in the 4th quarter. We will win on the ground and with defense. Brunell will not do it for us late in the game, but he won't lose it for us either (though the Jacobs pass was uncharactaristic).

If I remember correctly, when this Brunell vs. Ramsey debate was happening during the offseason, it turned out that Brunell had a throwing elbow that wasn't 100% for a lot of last year. Then earlier this year he was looking sharp, and there were some comments about how it might be due to his arm being better, even though that wasn't really on his injury report. If I'm wrong on the details of that, forgive me, but I'm pretty sure it was something like that.

All that to say that his knee could be bothering him, but if he's not 100%, there could be something else wrong with him that isn't widely known.

[TheSteve]

That statement was made as general point, not as a quote. You're right, Brunell hasn't played well the last several weeks, but it's not because he's hurt, it's because the Skins have been playing against good defenses.

Playing against good defenses does not mean you can't make throws to open recievers, something Brunell has not been able to do consistently since we played Dallas. Good defenses force you to take what they give you, we're not even doing that, and I think that's a valid reason to be concerned don't you?

[grampi]

Playing against good defenses does not mean you can't make throws to open recievers, something Brunell has not been able to do consistently since we played Dallas. Good defenses force you to take what they give you, we're not even doing that, and I think that's a valid reason to be concerned don't you?

Again, that doesn't mean Brunell's hurt.

[TheSteve]

Again, that doesn't mean Brunell's hurt.

Well I hope he's hurt! If he can't consistently make throws anymore what does that mean exactly if he's not injured? That's he's over the hill? That he's lost it? He can't play anymore? I really find that hard to believe. Unless he has run out of gas then he must be injured.

I'm curious, what do you think the reasons for his subpar play the last few games has been? Remember, ever since the Giants game, he hasn't played well. And he did get hurt in that game. Yet, you think its solely because Philly is "great" defensively? Tampa is "great" defensively? I've already resigned myself to the fact that we don't have a QB that can lead us to victory if we fall behind, that can't pass to the right side of the field, but now you're telling me that we're supposed to accept having a QB that can barely keep us ahead? Do you know what our time of possession was? It was that unbalanced solely because Brunell could not complete crucial third down passes to keep drives alive. Why do you think Gibbs started running even on third down? He knew Brunell didn't have it.

What good is run, run, pass if Brunell can't complete the pass part atleast 50% of the time?

[Seabee1973]

Why do people keep saying MB is hurt. He's not. We simply played a very good D in Tampa. Did any of you happen to watch any of the Skins last 3 regular season games? MB didn't look hurt to me. He will have a dam good game against the Seachickens.

he sure looks hurt throwing those passes no way a healthy qb only throws for 41 yards

[GSF]

Again, that doesn't mean Brunell's hurt.

He's either hurt or he's hit the wall.

[grampi]

he sure looks hurt throwing those passes no way a healthy qb only throws for 41 yards

They do when they play great defenses like Tampa's.

[Seabee1973]

I'm not following the reasoning that MB's hurt. He intially sustains a knee injury in the Giants game, plays fine last week vs the Eagles, has a bad game against the Bucs, and people say it's because he's hurt? That makes no sense. I say the only logical explination is the Buc's D just played a dam good game.

He did not play good last week

[Seabee1973]

They do when they play great defenses like Tampa's.

Show me any other QB that has thrown for that few yards against Tampa this year or any year?

[Bang]

Wait, so Brunell was intentionally not executing on plays where the reciever was open(I'm not talking about squeezing in passes to covered players here Bang) so that he wouldn't throw apick or make a mistake? :doh: If that's true Brunell should not be playing period. Since when do you want your QB not to throw to an open person? That's being conservative to the extreme. Geez Bang you're really taking this glass half full approach to the extreme. Sure, Brunell overthrew a wide open moss and an open Moss on a curl route to avoid potential disaster. :laugh:

If that's how you see it.

Save the mocking attitude crap.

I didn't say EVERY throw was intentionally launched into row Z, I said when you see some of the ones he's launched, you could expect that is what it is. I also said he's not perfect. He had some bad throws and you'd have to be an utter idiot to think i'd believe otherwise. what i am trying to convey to you is that from a strategic standpoint in games like the redskins have been in over the last two weeks, it would be foolish to look at the film of it and think you'll find anything. I'm not trying to explain away every bad pass, I'm saying that considering the events in yesterday's game it is not surprising to see them pass the ball so little, and it shouldn't shock anyone that maybe a few of his sails and launches have been to avoid any problems.. . I'm also saying to relax, because we have a defense that can crush the life out of an opponent. Brunell won't have to be in position to win any shootouts if they play up to their capability.

I do see the glass as half full. Since December began we've outscored our opponents 160-79. Doubled them. They went into a hostile stadium and won vs the #1 defense in the playoffs. Had Brunell been in a position to have to win the game and failed, i'd agree, but he wasn't, and they won. All these perceived problems don't stack up to that.

The Redskins live to play Seattle. Tampa sits at home. In times past we'd have found a way to lose that game, sure as shootin'. How anyone can see the glass as half empty in front of that is beyond me. It maybe hasn't settled in yet, but the reality is the Washington Redskins are two wins away from the SUPER BOWL.

How in the hell can the glass be ANYTHING but half full?

~Bang

[Ghost of]

Problem is, Bang, the game would have been easier for the Skins (and saved the D's energy) had Brunell completed even that pass to Moss that skipped in front of him (where he was open.)

On that pick, he had a man going down the sidelines and the bomb is still something he can throw.

He simply isn't performing and he's being carried by others at this point. And we were ridiculed for pointing out after Dallas that he got every possession (except those bombs) inside Dallas territory. He throws a pick for a TD against the Giants and it's all good. He throws a pick that in any normal circumstance would have led to the eventual tying of the game, and he gets a pass.

If you're not going to be 'smart' and avoid those types of turnovers, then shouldn't you at least deliver competent Qb-ing performances? If you can't even hit OPEN guys, then you shouldn't be out there--period. Because you can instruct anyone to NOT hit ANYONE at all.

And would anyone else get this kind of pass or at any other position? Please, he's so closely linked to Gibbs--THAT is why people defend him.

[DCNightHawk]

I think Brunell will throw for 200 yards in Seattle just to prove everybody wrong.

I think he will too. I have confidence in Brunell and think he will have a great game against the SeaHawks.

[TheSteve]

Save the mocking attitude crap.

I didn't say EVERY throw was intentionally launched into row Z, I said when you see some of the ones he's launched, you could expect that is what it is. I also said he's not perfect. He had some bad throws and you'd have to be an utter idiot to think i'd believe otherwise. what i am trying to convey to you is that from a strategic standpoint in games like the redskins have been in over the last two weeks, it would be foolish to look at the film of it and think you'll find anything. I'm not trying to explain away every bad pass, I'm saying that considering the events in yesterday's game it is not surprising to see them pass the ball so little, and it shouldn't shock anyone that maybe a few of his sails and launches have been to avoid any problems.. . I'm also saying to relax, because we have a defense that can crush the life out of an opponent. Brunell won't have to be in position to win any shootouts if they play up to their capability.

~Bang

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying with your remark about shootouts. Nowhere in any of my posts have I bemoaned the amount of times Brunell has passed the ball. That is irrelevant to this debate. It's obvious to me Brunell can't play like he was earlier in the season and its obvious the game dictated that the Redskins play in the manner they did. But again, my concern is not necessarily the gameplan, but rather the Quarterback failure to execute such a basic gameplan. Execution requires you to complete passes and avoid mistakes. Brunell did neither when it counted.

As for throw aways, there is a difference between Brunell launching it int he stands when he panics in the pocket, or there's nothing there, and Brunell throwing it away unintentionally, that is, he was trying to complete it bu failed miserably. That's what happened yesterday. The few passes that could have sealed the game(all we needed was a FG) were errant missthrows on Brunell's part. And the one pass he completed was a pass that nearly got Portis killed(ironically, the one instance he should have thrown it away). Again, no problem with how little we passed, but the problem is with how we were passing it when the opportunity presented itself. NFL QB's should be able to make passes to open recievers, even when under pressure. Especially Brunell, a veteran that is supposed to be in Washington for that express purpose.

Now, considering Brunell was not playing this terribly before he got injured against the Giants, is it really so unreasonable to be concerned that he will end up hurting this team down the road if he doesn't magically get better? Furthermore, if we fall behind early or late, do you really have any confidence this team can come back? It's a good thing we're playing Seattle next week, who's defense is #17. We can only hope for Brunell to not make the killer mistake early or late that he's been making the last few weeks.

[misery]

the only thing that worried me about brunell was his decision to throw into the middle of the field for the int. He should have thrown it away

[RunPortisRun]

I think Brunell is hurt(knee) and will get benched.

[grampi]

I think Brunell is hurt(knee) and will get benched.

Put down the pipe and walk away.

[G-Prime]

It was a terrible throw to begin with, and not only that but it was a low throw right into the defenders hands. Yes, Jacobs should have cut his route shorter when he was coming back, but it was a terrible throw. A veteran QB like Brunell should throw the ball away, which ironically he didn't do when that's his M.O. that everyone loves him for.

Oh yeah it was a throw that should have never happened, but those things do happen and you have to be prepared for it.

[FranklinNoble]

MARK BRUNELL WAS PLAYING AGAINST THE #1 DEFENSE IN THE NFL.

Patrick Ramsey would have thrown 32 interceptions on Saturday in Tampa.

Relax, people. The Seahawks defense will capitulate much more easily.

[skinsfanno9]

What puzzles me is most of the reasoned people here are not referring to the playcalling. I can see calling a conservative ball game when two defenses are playing as great as they were today. But for anyone who is honest with themselves to be watching the game and blame Brunell's obvious ineptitude on the conservative gameplan, has to have their heads buried firmly in the sand. It is not that Brunell threw only 15 times, or that he completed only 7 of those passes, or that he only threw for 40 yards. It is the manner in which he did those things that should be a concern.

People say we played it safe, yet in playing it safely Brunell skipped a bounce pass to an open Moss that would have kept a crucial drive alive. Part of the gameplan Bang? I think not.

On a perfectly executed(by all save the QB) fake screen to Moss in which he abused Barber with the spin move and was wide open in between the CB's and the safety deep, Brunell couldn't hit him and threw it out of bounds. Part of the gameplan? I think not.

In a critical situation, one of the times you would rather have him throw it away! Brunell rolled to his left and dumped it off to Portis for a loss of 5 yards. Must be part of the gameplan.

In an even more critical situation, Brunell rolls left, appears to panic, trying to make something happen instead of his "playing it safe" mantra, throws it across the field, telegraphing it to Taylor Jacobs, and if that was not bad enough, the pass was low. There was no way Jacobs had a shot at that ball. Should have thrown the ball away and allowed Frost to punt. But I'm sure that was part of the gameplan.

The fact is, if Brunell's knee is fine as he said, and I seriously doubt it is with this errant play he has been showing, then he must have hit the veteran wall. There comes a point in everyone's career where they just aren't good for a full season of productive play anymore, and it would appear Brunell has hit that point.

Brunell needs to find the fountain of youth against Seattle, because our defense is going to be tired, playing on a short week after a tough, physical game against Tampa. I say we need to score at the least 24 points, and I'm not even sure about that. And really, who is confident about that?

I'm only still pumped because I think we match up well with Seattle. Thank God we're not traveling to Chicago.

Nice post. Yeah, I think its wierd that people can watch something as clear as day and come out with a complete different interpretation (That Brunell played wonderfully and only intended to get 41 yards or something). Clearly, the last two weeks Brunell has been near the bottom of his game, not the top. This won't work against Seattle. But just as clearly, Brunell is our guy for the remainder of the season. Ramsey will not be coming in unless Brunell requests it, and its pretty clear that he's not going to do that.

So the question is, can Brunell come back and perform like he did prior to getting his knee hurt? Honestly, I think our chances of winning hinge on this. Yes, he generally makes good decisions, and keeps the team loose, but he has to have confidence in himself to make those downfield strikes, and has to be able to consistently connect on the short stuff. Without this, our running game dies, and so does our chance of another playoff victory.

And no, this is not a "Bash Brunell" post. He certainly has been terrific for us this year. But I think all Redskins fans should be concerned with the offensive production, and more importantly, should be concerned with Brunell's health.