Defending GW

[Dirk Diggler]

Smoot was a rookie that year. And Trotter was miserable and unmotivated during his entire Redskin tenure. If Lewis had the Smoot of last year and the Trotter who plays for the Eagles' date=' you would have a point.

The bottom line is that you said Lewis never had a good defense except when he was in Baltimore. I said he had a top five defense here, and has built a turnover-creating machine in Cincy.

Somehow, we got into a p-----g contest about the types of players each had. Lewis' defense here had bigger names but Darrel Green was retiring, Fred Smoot was a rookie, Trotter was not all that into playing, and Bruce Smith was decomposing. Armstead did play well that year.[/quote']

Don't forget Dan Wilkinson

[Bonez3]

GW is a very good defensive mind. There is no doubting the fact that his system is effective so there is no need to defend him.

My issue with the defensive coaches is (and thus my sig) is the attitude that talent isn't that important. We put in Holdman for too long. We pretend Daniels is going to fix our DL because he's healthy. We watch Smoot leave and start Harris. We make no moves to draft or acquire DL players. The defense took a step back this year and as the year went on looked worse. Then Griffin gets hurt and you have an impressive "system failure".

As soon as someone in the redskins front offense remembers that defensive lineman are an actual position in the NFL that needs to be filled with capable folks Gregg Williams system will shine again. He had a pretty good line in Buffalo, not the greatest players, not the biggest names, but solid and plenty capable.

It can't be considered a serious statement, 'we watch Smoot leave and start Walt Harris', that Smoot would have contributed at all on defense this year or any other year in his soon to be exposed overall career.

Fred Smoot is a extra nickel back at best on a avg. team. He can't tackle, unarguable. His cover skills, which siomehow made him a commodity, were clearly exposed against Carolina. How the he!! are you gonna pay a guy like that top dollar to get toasted for 4 qtrs. against the top team in the conference. Do you think if Carolina played Minny in the playoffs they would even worry about scoring 35 points. Smoot sucks.

And finally, as any Skins fan should know, he is a hot dog, big mouth, trouble maker. I wont elaborate on the 'love boat'. But, who is surprised.

Letting Smoot go was about as smart a move the FO could make. Rogers has a better attitude 8 games in than Smoot will EVER have in his career.

System Failure :laugh: I'm sure if we drafted K. Winslow & M. Williams our defense would be way better- being how we obviously neglect it.

[Loyal2Washington]

Smoot was a rookie that year. And Trotter was miserable and unmotivated during his entire Redskin tenure. If Lewis had the Smoot of last year and the Trotter who plays for the Eagles' date=' you would have a point.

The bottom line is that you said Lewis never had a good defense except when he was in Baltimore. I said he had a top five defense here, and has built a turnover-creating machine in Cincy.

Somehow, we got into a p-----g contest about the types of players each had. Lewis' defense here had bigger names but Darrel Green was retiring, Fred Smoot was a rookie, Trotter was not all that into playing, and Bruce Smith was decomposing. Armstead did play well that year.[/quote']

No I said his D was overrated here and not as dominating as GW, statistically we had a great D but we never scared anybody, like last year. My point was Lewis had better players, Pro bowlers or guys that had been to Pro Bowls, GW didn't. Smoot was drafted by Marty so he was in his second year, he was drafted with Rod Gardner, instead of S.Moss, oh well we got it right eventually.

Basically I like GW more if you guys like Marvin more cool. I'm done arguing GW is better and that's that.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

[Destino]

It can't be considered a serious statement, 'we watch Smoot leave and start Walt Harris', that Smoot would have contributed at all on defense this year or any other year in his soon to be exposed overall career.

Fred Smoot is a extra nickel back at best on a avg. team. He can't tackle, unarguable. His cover skills, which siomehow made him a commodity, were clearly exposed against Carolina. How the he!! are you gonna pay a guy like that top dollar to get toasted for 4 qtrs. against the top team in the conference. Do you think if Carolina played Minny in the playoffs they would even worry about scoring 35 points. Smoot sucks.

And finally, as any Skins fan should know, he is a hot dog, big mouth, trouble maker. I wont elaborate on the 'love boat'. But, who is surprised.

Letting Smoot go was about as smart a move the FO could make. Rogers has a better attitude 8 games in than Smoot will EVER have in his career.

So let me ask you, Did Smoot start over Harris?

System Failure :laugh: I'm sure if we drafted K. Winslow & M. Williams our defense would be way better- being how we obviously neglect it.

Does that make sense? I'm saying "draft for the d-line" and you bring up two guys I never liked that play on the other side of the ball. Interesting logic....

[Destino]

Alright Destino, your right Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson have absolutely nothing to do with Cincy's record, it's all D for them, Rudi Johnson has contributed nothing as well. Their D is a product of the offense getting up on teams early and forcing them into a passing style offense thus rendering them one dimensional.

Hey before Palmer and Chad/Rudi Johnson developed the chemistry they have now, would you be so forgiving of Marvin if he was are head coach and started 16-16. I bet you would, system failure.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

How can I be right about that if I never said anything of the sort? I responded to your claim that the defense had nothing to do with it and proved you completely wrong. You can say whatever you want but going up early, doesn't do anything but strengthen my case.....the other teams are forced to score and yet the Bengals still have the 3rd best derfense in terms of points allowed per game. Obviously the defense is stopping teams from scoring.

Also you failed to take into account the role turnovers play for the offense. If the skins could get more short fields they would score more points? Right? Of course that's right.

Also Marvin Lewis said from day one that fixing the mess he found in Cincy would take years. Looks like he was right. The same thing is going to happen here in DC, first year sucked, second year is promising, and next year if we play our cards right we'll be loving life.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It can't be considered a serious statement, 'we watch Smoot leave and start Walt Harris', that Smoot would have contributed at all on defense this year or any other year in his soon to be exposed overall career.

Fred Smoot is a extra nickel back at best on a avg. team. He can't tackle, unarguable. His cover skills, which siomehow made him a commodity, were clearly exposed against Carolina. How the he!! are you gonna pay a guy like that top dollar to get toasted for 4 qtrs. against the top team in the conference. Do you think if Carolina played Minny in the playoffs they would even worry about scoring 35 points. Smoot sucks.

And finally, as any Skins fan should know, he is a hot dog, big mouth, trouble maker. I wont elaborate on the 'love boat'. But, who is surprised.

Letting Smoot go was about as smart a move the FO could make. Rogers has a better attitude 8 games in than Smoot will EVER have in his career.

System Failure :laugh: I'm sure if we drafted K. Winslow & M. Williams our defense would be way better- being how we obviously neglect it.

Wait...wasn't Smoot incredibly popular in DC?

I can understand no longer cheering for a guy once he leaves. But Smoot played very well here, played hurt, seemed to be a team leader, and never once got in trouble. Let's not re-write history. We are seeing with Walt Harris how important corner play is in Williams' system. We had good corner play last year. We have mediocre corner play this year. And we are giving up big plays in every game because of it.

[Loyal2Washington]

How can I be right about that if I never said anything of the sort? I responded to your claim that the defense had nothing to do with it and proved you completely wrong. You can say whatever you want but going up early, doesn't do anything but strengthen my case.....the other teams are forced to score and yet the Bengals still have the 3rd best derfense in terms of points allowed per game. Obviously the defense is stopping teams from scoring.

Also you failed to take into account the role turnovers play for the offense. If the skins could get more short fields they would score more points? Right? Of course that's right.

Also Marvin Lewis said from day one that fixing the mess he found in Cincy would take years. Looks like he was right. The same thing is going to happen here in DC, first year sucked, second year is promising, and next year if we play our cards right we'll be loving life.

Your implying that the O is not as productive as the D in Cincy which is completely false on your end, the offense is the main reason Cincy is having a good year. Your absolutely right TO's play a huge role during games, but if teams are forced to abandon the run because the O has put up points on you then INT's become a whole lot more easy with 5 DB's on the field instead of 4. Ask Brett Favre about that. By the way you proved me wrong, then tell me Cincy would be where they are with out there big 3. Tell me Kitna is a better QB, Cincy would be back in the toilet if it wasn't for the maturation of their big 3. There D is pedestrian compared to their O, and that's a fact system failure.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Your implying that the O is not as productive as the D in Cincy which is completely false on your end, the offense is the main reason Cincy is having a good year. Your absolutely right TO's play a huge role during games, but if teams are forced to abandon the run because the O has put up points on you then INT's become a whole lot more easy with 5 DB's on the field instead of 4. Ask Brett Favre about that. By the way you proved me wrong, then tell me Cincy would be where they are with out there big 3. Tell me Kitna is a better QB, Cincy would be back in the toilet if it wasn't for the maturation of their big 3. There D is pedestrian compared to their O, and that's a fact system failure.

Cincy's big three is a huge reason for their resurgence. No one is questioning that. I don't know why you are putting words into everyone's mouths.

But if the defense is Cincy was like past Cincy defenses, the big three would be playing in a lot of 31-30 games. They are not.

Cincy sucked on both sides of the ball when Lewis got there. Their offense is now up to an A- while the defense is now a solid B. The fact that the offense has improved so dramatically actually dictates a lot of their defensive game plan now. Lewis is actually a very conservative defensive coach, unlike Williams. He has gotten a little more aggressive in Cincy because a) the talent is not where it should be yet and the offense can make up for any mistakes.

[Hal2856]

The fact is Marvin is a great coach. he has turned the Bengals around. I agree I wanted him to be head coach of us over Spurrier as well... But, I still beleive his heart was not with the Redskins. He only came here to be called a co-head coach of defense. It was the title not the desire to return the Skins to glory as it is with Williams and of course Gibbs. The same could be said for Spurrier. Whoever our next head coach is, I want it to be someone dedicated to the team. So, I hope it's Williams and I will support him all the way. Sometimes I wonder if Pettibone, gien more time could have had success. He was given no time and replaced with Norv who, once again was not bleeding Burgandy and Gold... rather Blue and Silver.

[PCRoughrider]

I don't think he needs to be defended. Well, not from something I said.

I still believe GW is one of, if not the, best defensive minds in the league. I fully expect him to adjust to what he has and I expect the team to play better, regardless of who's in or out.

[Loyal2Washington]

Cincy's big three is a huge reason for their resurgence. No one is questioning that. I don't know why you are putting words into everyone's mouths.

But if the defense is Cincy was like past Cincy defenses' date=' the big three would be playing in a lot of 31-30 games. They are not.

Cincy sucked on both sides of the ball when Lewis got there. Their offense is now up to an A- while the defense is now a solid B. The fact that the offense has improved so dramatically actually dictates a lot of their defensive game plan now. Lewis is actually a very conservative defensive coach, unlike Williams. He has gotten a little more aggressive in Cincy because a) the talent is not where it should be yet and the offense can make up for any mistakes.[/quote']

I'm not putting words in anybodies mouth, I'm asking anyone to tell me when his D has been more dominate then last years Skins D, with the exception of the Ravens D. I'm asking if you really think the D is more responsible for Cincys good year then the O. I'm simply telling you that without their O they would be a bad team.

Disagree if you want but I don't see 3 lock Pro-Bowlers on there D that have the ability or impact of their big 3.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

This D is in transition. We don't have depth at DT because of the unfortunate injury to Brandon Noble. Our DE's our struggling because of the unfortunate recovery of Phillip Daniels. Taylor and Clark are both in their 2nd year starting and neither opened last lear as a starter. Lemar Marchall is new to the MLB position and though playing admirably has alot to learn.

I have been dissapointed overall about the big play, but all-in-all our unit is very solid and we can credit that entirely to GW.

[bulldog]

in the end the Redskins were undone by turnovers and the inability of corners Harris and Rogers to make the plays they are being paid to make.

Rogers may be young but so is the receiver, Williams, that beat him down the field.

in regards to the first three quarters' worth of Joey Galloway, I don't understand how any coordinator could sit there and NOT jut put Shawn Springs on him man on man and have him follow Galloway across the field wherever he lines up.

[Bonez3]

So let me ask you, Did Smoot start over Harris?

Does that make sense? I'm saying "draft for the d-line" and you bring up two guys I never liked that play on the other side of the ball. Interesting logic....

Does Harris get Smoot Money. Honestly, they are equal talents at unequal pat rates. So, draft a young CB, and lrt him develop. Thus, you let Smoot walk away and replace him for one year with almost/possibly equally talented Walt Harris. It's a salary cap issue- who cares who started last year. Smoot ain't worth 1/4 of his contract-PERIOD.

My point is that they replaced defense in the last two years with top 10 picks- not necessarily neglect. They didn't draft DL, well the world ain't perfect and the best players at those spots weren't DL. You can't argue what we did. Plus, we certainly pursued DL in free agency, just didn't work. System Failure :laugh: Probably not. Knee Jerk reaction to a tough loss and some defensive speed bumps- Probably.

[Bonez3]

Wait...wasn't Smoot incredibly popular in DC?

I can understand no longer cheering for a guy once he leaves. But Smoot played very well here' date=' played hurt, seemed to be a team leader, and never once got in trouble. Let's not re-write history. We are seeing with Walt Harris how important corner play is in Williams' system. We had good corner play last year. We have mediocre corner play this year. And we are giving up big plays in every game because of it.[/quote']

Well, he could have been mayor of DC for all I care, I never cared for his ability. I am as big a Redskin fan and probably homer you will find. Thus, it takes alot for me to bash players while still on the Redskins. And I did this consistently with Smoot, with plenty of witnesses. He could not tackle, covering was hit or miss and probably got more attn. for his handful of good games rather than his overall talent.

I will credit him with having passion (I guess, but it almost can be construed as just another hot dog- I don't know if the passion was for himself or the team). But I also critiqued another former Skins DB with having the same overhyped resume (also while on the Skins)- Mr. Champ Bailey. Consistently toasted in division games, lackluster tackler, notorious gambler. Again, proving recently that he wasn't worth the hype.

Now, I probably have been more critical of DB's than any other position. I played it and my all time fav playeris #28. I hold that position in high regard. When I see poor tackiling, BS hotdogging and overall mediocracy I call it out whether a Skin or not.

Not rewriting history- just calling it as I see it. And, as written, I watch DB with particular attention. :2cents: