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Defending GW


Hal2856

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I find it funny that not to long ago, everyone was praising Greg Williams as the better coach to Gibbs and now we have sigs like "System Failure", etc. I don't get this. Greg Williams has done more with less than some have with a lot. It just frustrates me. GW is the best D coach we've had and continues to have a top 10 D despite glaring inefficiencies across the line, a young secondary, (3 out of 5 are less than 26 years of age) and a loss of continuity having lost players in the offseason. I for one am glad he's having an off year, now we won't lose him to another team. Do I think the defense has let us down? Sure, but does anyone remeber the god awful Nolan years, when our D sucked so bad we always played prevent?! the year we went 10-6, we lost game after game because Nolan couldn't do crap and we had talent on that team that far surpassed what Williams has now. Give him a break. Next year offense will rock and D will rock. it takes time. The Colts took time to build as well. They're awsome now, but that D hasn't always been great... Last year they sucked, that's why Payton Manning's record breaking year was all for not. Be calm and give gibbs and Williams time to build a team that wins.

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We will get to see just how good he is. If he can fix the lack of pressure on the quaterback, he will be heralded as "King of Defense again". But until then, the Skins faithful should be hard on him. Criticism is key to success. I wish he would use more delayed blitzes to fake out the opposition. Because right now they know it is coming and they are blocking them. Win against your division please!!!!!!!!!!

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yeah, yeah, ray Rhodes was fine, but he didn't get us to a Superbowl, in fact several games were lost in 2000 because of his D, and Lewis, while he got us in the top 5, was never comitted. That pissed me off. he wanted to be a head coach and not a Skin. Marty's brother might have been real good given the time. But GW really is great and he's like Gibbs. Comitted to excellence.

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williams is fine , its the players and tho i might not agree with every call he makes i think he by far is more qualified to do the job than i am or anyone else here his system is fine see last year ..... its the players ! cut walt harris you say ? and put in who at this point? number 22 ? who isnt rdy and if so then who is our nickelback? ade jimoh? walt is our best option right now even tho he has played like a girl recently >< our D is decent but very prone to giving up the big play and not getting a stop when needed and it needs to change

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GW is a very good defensive mind. There is no doubting the fact that his system is effective so there is no need to defend him.

My issue with the defensive coaches is (and thus my sig) is the attitude that talent isn't that important. We put in Holdman for too long. We pretend Daniels is going to fix our DL because he's healthy. We watch Smoot leave and start Harris. We make no moves to draft or acquire DL players. The defense took a step back this year and as the year went on looked worse. Then Griffin gets hurt and you have an impressive "system failure".

As soon as someone in the redskins front offense remembers that defensive lineman are an actual position in the NFL that needs to be filled with capable folks Gregg Williams system will shine again. He had a pretty good line in Buffalo, not the greatest players, not the biggest names, but solid and plenty capable.

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yeah, yeah, ray Rhodes was fine, but he didn't get us to a Superbowl, in fact several games were lost in 2000 because of his D, and Lewis, while he got us in the top 5, was never comitted. That pissed me off. he wanted to be a head coach and not a Skin. Marty's brother might have been real good given the time. But GW really is great and he's like Gibbs. Comitted to excellence.

You really think Marvin Lewis should have stayed a D-Coordinator forever?

He's turned Cincinatti into a contender after a decade of nonsense.

Frankly, the biggest mistake Danny ever made was going after Spurrier and not Lewis. Part of me hopes that Lewis does win a Super Bowl one day so he can write a book where he explains what it was like to be passed over for years and then have to assist Spurrier who may or may not have been awake during most of his tenure.

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I think he'll fix it as well. But you have to acknowledge that there is problems. Its not about being a believer or a non-believer.

Agreed.

I have total confidence in his ability to get our guys to perform at a high level.

That said, I would like to see two new DE's, and a new Nickle in B'nG this offseason.

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I wish he would use more delayed blitzes to fake out the opposition. Because right now they know it is coming and they are blocking them. Win against your division please!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only that notices that. There's little suprise to a blitz when Marcus and Lavar are standing right on the line ready to pounce, or when the corner back moves to the line of scrimage and waits for the snap. I remember last year, Springs would stay in front of the receiver like he was going to drop back in coverage until the ball was snapped. He was so fast that he could close quickly on the qb from way outside, and the offense never saw it coming. Now all our corners are lining up right on the end of the line of scrimmage, and the offense knows it's coming and how to protect against it.

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Richie Pettibone' date=' Ray Rhodes, and Marvin Lewis would like a word with you.[/quote']

Rhodes has been over hyped for a long time now, Pettibone is a completely different era, remember the learning curve for Gibbs, and Lewis hasn't had a dominating defense that didn't have the names Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Chris McAllister. Last time I checked the reason Cincy is good is because of Carson Palmer, Chad Johnson, and Rudi Johnson. I like Marvin, a lot, but he had more talent then GW and not as good a D.

Anyone that thinks GW is overrated look at his history. We had some defections last year and we're not as deep as last year, a combination of that makes for a down year, but anybody thinking this D would be better under another coordinator is completely crazy.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

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Rhodes has been over hyped for a long time now, Pettibone is a completely different era, remember the learning curve for Gibbs, and Lewis hasn't had a dominating defense that didn't have the names Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Chris McAllister. Last time I checked the reason Cincy is good is because of Carson Palmer, Chad Johnson, and Rudi Johnson. I like Marvin, a lot, but he had more talent then GW and not as good a D.

Anyone that thinks GW is overrated look at his history. We had some defections last year and we're not as deep as last year, a combination of that makes for a down year, but anybody thinking this D would be better under another coordinator is completely crazy.

Lewis had a Top 5 defense with the Redskins in his only year here. How is that demonstrably different from what Greg Williams has done?

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Rhodes has been over hyped for a long time now, Pettibone is a completely different era, remember the learning curve for Gibbs, and Lewis hasn't had a dominating defense that didn't have the names Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Chris McAllister. Last time I checked the reason Cincy is good is because of Carson Palmer, Chad Johnson, and Rudi Johnson. I like Marvin, a lot, but he had more talent then GW and not as good a D.

Anyone that thinks GW is overrated look at his history. We had some defections last year and we're not as deep as last year, a combination of that makes for a down year, but anybody thinking this D would be better under another coordinator is completely crazy.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

When did Marvin Lewis become Cinci's D Co?

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Lewis had a Top 5 defense with the Redskins in his only year here. How is that demonstrably different from what Greg Williams has done?

Marvin is a very good defensive minded coach, I'm just saying GW is better. Going into last year GW didn't have the talent that Lewis had and he fielded a higher ranking D, is that true or false. Is it true or false that Cincy's winning is based more on offensive production then defensive.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

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Marvin is a very good defensive minded coach, I'm just saying GW is better. Going into last year GW didn't have the talent that Lewis had and he fielded a higher ranking D, is that true or false. Is it true or false that Cincy's winning is based more on offensive production then defensive.

I will say, false.

The 2002 defense had only two pro bowlers in Lavar and Champ. And everyone on this board knows that Champ stinks and for a while a large group thought that Lavar stunk (I kid, I kid). The only good D-linemen he had was Daryl Gardner. And Ifeanyi Ohalete was a major contributer. Enuff said there.

He also had to deal with the fact that Spurrier's offense turned the ball over 35 times that year. And the fact that Spurrier couldn't name any of the starters on defense. There is no evidence to suggest that Spurrier even knew the team had a defense.

If you put that Lewis defense with an offense that actually cared about using the clock and protecting the ball, goodness only knows what it could have done.

And check out Cincy's turnover statistics if you think they are just an offensive team. Lewis has turned that defense into a bunch of ball hawks.

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Is it true or false that Cincy's winning is based more on offensive production then defensive.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

The league is far to in love with "overall" defense. Football is won by points. That means defensives have two responsibilites 1-Stop the other team from scoring 2-Get the ball back so your offense can score. With that in mind let's look at two key stats about the Cincy defense:

1 - Number 1 in the league in take aways with 29. (also #1 in turnover ratio at +20)

2 - Number 3 in the league in points allowed per game with 14.9

That right there is a defense that is doing everything that it needs to.

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The league is far to in love with "overall" defense. Football is won by points. That means defensives have two responsibilites 1-Stop the other team from scoring 2-Get the ball back so your offense can score. With that in mind let's look at two key stats about the Cincy defense:

1 - Number 1 in the league in take aways with 29. (also #1 in turnover ratio at +20)

2 - Number 3 in the league in points allowed per game with 14.9

That right there is a defense that is doing everything that it needs to.

Alright Destino, your right Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson have absolutely nothing to do with Cincy's record, it's all D for them, Rudi Johnson has contributed nothing as well. Their D is a product of the offense getting up on teams early and forcing them into a passing style offense thus rendering them one dimensional.

Hey before Palmer and Chad/Rudi Johnson developed the chemistry they have now, would you be so forgiving of Marvin if he was are head coach and started 16-16. I bet you would, system failure.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

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The league is far to in love with "overall" defense. Football is won by points. That means defensives have two responsibilites 1-Stop the other team from scoring 2-Get the ball back so your offense can score. With that in mind let's look at two key stats about the Cincy defense:

1 - Number 1 in the league in take aways with 29. (also #1 in turnover ratio at +20)

2 - Number 3 in the league in points allowed per game with 14.9

That right there is a defense that is doing everything that it needs to.

While I agree that a defense is judged largely on those 2 factors, I think it's important to note that Cincinnati has played a cake schedule with a wide array of offensively challenged teams. They are certainly not top 5 and anyone with some sense would leave them out of the top 10.

I know that you can only play who you play but when the competition got stiffer (Jags, Steelers) their defense wasn't exactly inspirational. Let's see if they can hold Indy under 30 before we decide they are doing "everything they need to do."

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I will say' date=' false.

The 2002 defense had only two pro bowlers in Lavar and Champ. And everyone on this board knows that Champ stinks and for a while a large group thought that Lavar stunk (I kid, I kid). The only good D-linemen he had was Daryl Gardner. And Ifeanyi Ohalete was a major contributer. Enuff said there.

He also had to deal with the fact that Spurrier's offense turned the ball over 35 times that year. And the fact that Spurrier couldn't name any of the starters on defense. There is no evidence to suggest that Spurrier even knew the team had a defense.

If you put that Lewis defense with an offense that actually cared about using the clock and protecting the ball, goodness only knows what it could have done.

And check out Cincy's turnover statistics if you think they are just an offensive team. Lewis has turned that defense into a bunch of ball hawks.[/quote']

OK so Marcus Washington had the kind of credentials that Trotter and Armstead had, don't think so. Gardner had just as good a year as Grif had last year but guess what Grif has never been to a Pro-Bowl unlike Gardner. Champ and Smoot are a better CB tandem then Springa and Harris, don't agree ask Chris Simms. safety is the only spot were GW has an advantage, great to see Marvin tap the resources of Antonio Priece. GW had NO where near the talent level of Marvin better check your 02 fact again. GW has DEVELOPED great players, Marvin HAD great players (chuckle along with me) when he coached here. There is a big difference.

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

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OK so Marcus Washington had the kind of credentials that Trotter and Armstead had, don't think so. Gardner had just as good a year as Grif had last year but guess what Grif has never been to a Pro-Bowl unlike Gardner. Champ and Smoot are a better CB tandem then Springa and Harris, don't agree ask Chris Simms. safety is the only spot were GW has an advantage, great to see Marvin tap the resources of Antonio Priece. GW had NO where near the talent level of Marvin better check your 02 fact again. GW has DEVELOPED great players, Marvin HAD great players (chuckle along with me) when he coached here. There is a big difference.

Smoot was a rookie that year. And Trotter was miserable and unmotivated during his entire Redskin tenure. If Lewis had the Smoot of last year and the Trotter who plays for the Eagles, you would have a point.

The bottom line is that you said Lewis never had a good defense except when he was in Baltimore. I said he had a top five defense here, and has built a turnover-creating machine in Cincy.

Somehow, we got into a p-----g contest about the types of players each had. Lewis' defense here had bigger names but Darrel Green was retiring, Fred Smoot was a rookie, Trotter was not all that into playing, and Bruce Smith was decomposing. Armstead did play well that year.

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Alright Destino, your right Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson have absolutely nothing to do with Cincy's record, it's all D for them, Rudi Johnson has contributed nothing as well. Their D is a product of the offense getting up on teams early and forcing them into a passing style offense thus rendering them one dimensional.

Hey before Palmer and Chad/Rudi Johnson developed the chemistry they have now, would you be so forgiving of Marvin if he was are head coach and started 16-16. I bet you would, system failure.

I think you need to give Marvin additional points considering that he is coaching in Cincy. The fact that he went 16-16 in his first two years there is a reason to hold parades.

I don't think they won 16 games from 1998 through 2002.

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