Destino Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 No, you are trying to get me to say that a poor, black, crack whore would waste the money on drugs and then still expect the Salvation Army to feed them.Sorry, but you are not going to get me to say that.. I'm not trying to get you to say anything. But it would be nice of you to have the guts to be straight with us instead of making insinuations only to run away from them when called on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Dumb things can be anything, from booze to a new car. Or half the posts in this thread :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 We already know where portissizzle stand on this topic and what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 You know how it is. I use to be poor, and me first years out of school I spent my money on stupid things, things that depreciate. And any time you get money and you don't work for it you don't appreciate it the same way. Dumb things can be anything, from booze to a new car. What I want to do is give the people power, not welfare. What you want to do is help people, and your idealism tells you welfare doesn't help people. You need to take your idealism and throw it in the trash where it belongs. Helping people in need has always had two real steps; short-term relief (typically a hand out) and long-term relief (not a hand out). What you are seeing here is the first step, providing these people with limited funds to buy them some time, nothing more. This hand out is not intended to provide long-term solutions, but contrary to idealism that isn’t a bad thing. You can not plan for tomorrow if you are not eating today, the immediate concern must be addressed prior to the less urgent needs that will spring up down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Who are "these people" portisizzle? Do you have numbers on how many of these people were on welfare, or is this yet another assumption? Would you care to discuss the percentage of welfare recipients in New Orleans who were stuck depending on the government to help them get out? You know good and well what I am trying to say. How about not beating around the bush........ You sound real close to throwing the race card at me. Be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I think this is a great idea. Give the people some semblance of self worth and reliance. Much better than setting up stations for them to get free stuff. Let them decide what to spend it on and how fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I'm not trying to get you to say anything. But it would be nice of you to have the guts to be straight with us instead of making insinuations only to run away from them when called on it. Grow up. Reread the past few pages. Instead of telling me that I am insinuating something, why not tell me and all here what you THINK I am trying to insinuate. Or do YOU have the guts to go out on that limb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I think this is a great idea. Give the people some semblance of self worth and reliance. Much better than setting up stations for them to get free stuff. Let them decide what to spend it on and how fast. Just make sure a Red Cross tent is nearby......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Would you care to discuss the percentage of welfare recipients in New Orleans who were stuck depending on the government to help them get out? You know good and well what I am trying to say. How about not beating around the bush........You sound real close to throwing the race card at me. Be careful. I would love to discuss the percentage of welfare recipients that couldn't get out. First, since you brought it up, tell me how many of the people trapped there were on welfare. You must know, being that you've mentioned it many times. When you can show me that you aren't throwing out assumptions we'll move on. I'm betting you haven't a clue and have assumed all of this. Prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Grow up. Reread the past few pages. Instead of telling me that I am insinuating something, why not tell me and all here what you THINK I am trying to insinuate. Or do YOU have the guts to go out on that limb.Grow up? How about you grow a back bone and make plain statements instead of little half @ssed remarks allowing you to run away from any possible interpretation. I'm not going to put words in your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeApe Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I think it's a great idea. Easier to dole out a card than crates of stuff. If I were in the position of these people, this would allow me to get some clothes and essential items for my daughter. Allow me to get to my parents/friends/family (not effected by the hurricane) where I would no longer be a refugee and get my life back in order. Sure there will be some abuse, but there will be a lot of people that use it approriately. I can definitely see how this would help me short term. Much more so than material hand outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026 An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State by Robert Tracinski Sep 02, 2005 by Robert Tracinski It took four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it also took me four long days to figure out what was going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster. If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild. Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists—myself included—did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting. But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster. The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong. The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over four days last week. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view. The man-made disaster is the welfare state. For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency—indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country. When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11). So what explains the chaos in New Orleans? To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story: "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on. "The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire.... "Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders. " 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' " The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows a SWAT team with rifles and armored vests riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad. What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to speed away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Superdome? Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them? My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage one night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Technology, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.) What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"—the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels—gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of those who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then told me that early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails—so they just let many of them loose. [update: I have been searching for news reports on this last story, but I have not been able to confirm it. Instead, I have found numerous reports about the collapse of the corrupt and incompetent New Orleans Police Department; see here and here.] There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa. There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit—but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals—and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep—on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves. All of this is related, incidentally, to the incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. In a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters—not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency. No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism. What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. And they don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men. But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them. People living in piles of their own trash, while petulantly complaining that other people aren't doing enough to take care of them and then shooting at those who come to rescue them—this is not just a description of the chaos at the Superdome. It is a perfect summary of the 40-year history of the welfare state and its public housing projects. The welfare state—and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages—is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting. Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I would love to discuss the percentage of welfare recipients that couldn't get out. First, since you brought it up, tell me how many of the people trapped there were on welfare. You must know, being that you've mentioned it many times. When you can show me that you aren't throwing out assumptions we'll move on. I'm betting you haven't a clue and have assumed all of this. Prove me wrong. "75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of those who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 2000.00 dollar debit card = Hotel/Motel in a dry area not affected. Food/Water/clothes in a store in an area not affected. Perscriptions/Medicine over the counter hair products, toiletries A prepaid cell phone or calling cards a bus ticket to another state for 5 buying food for the friend relative that puts you up. buying an air mattress or two instead of sleeping on the floor at said friends house. etc.. etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 2000.00 dollar debit card = Hotel/Motel in a dry area not affected. Food/Water/clothes in a store in an area not affected. Perscriptions/Medicine over the counter hair products, toiletries A prepaid cell phone or calling cards a bus ticket to another state for 5 buying food for the friend relative that puts you up. buying an air mattress or two instead of sleeping on the floor at said friends house. etc.. etc.. money buys things thanks Cptn..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 How long do they expect these to last? Most motels cost at least $60 a night, add in food and clothes, and this isn't going to last more than a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 How long do they expect these to last? Most motels cost at least $60 a night, add in food and clothes, and this isn't going to last more than a month. I don't think they're shutting down the shelters, nor will they stop providing food. This is why it seems obvious to me that the money is not a handout like everyone thinks it is, but rather an enticement for people to register with the government. The government and charities right now have no problem with cash flow or with supplies, but what they lack is information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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