Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 This reminds me of a party I attended where the police threw tear gas at the assembled crowd. There is a short video included in this article. A quote from an eye-witness: " One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH." http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/230805utahrave.htm http://www.progressiveu.org/node/639 "About 90 law enforcement officers from multiple agencies broke up what they said was a rave party on public and private property in the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork canyon, an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah, at about 11:30 p.m. Saturday. According to the county, the sheriff's office had been investigating similar parties since the beginning of the season. In a press release from the Sheriff's office in Utah County, the department claims that previous allegations of sexual abuse while attending other raves, as well as various firearm and theft violations, were reason for the investigation. The release continues to state that the proper permit was not obtained before the party started. Armed with assault rifles and tear gas, the police used dogs to sweep the crowd for narcotics. At least one helicopter was used in the operation. The scale of the police response was apparently due to the ineffectiveness of a smaller force used in the previous "Sequence Five" rave. Prior to dispersing the partiers, several police informants had reportedly infiltrated the rave and observed widespread illegal activities. The promoter says the party took place on private property, named Child's Ranch, with express permission from the owner. The property owner has apparently had at least one previous run-in with police over a similar event. Utah County requires a permit, bond and county commission approval for all gatherings with more than 250 people present. According to a DJ at the event, "they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total". He added that by the time police arrived "the crowd was about 1500 people thick". The police have publicly stated that these permits were not obtained, but the promoters claim otherwise. Officials also claim that the party had spilled over onto public land. Police reported in local press that more than 60 arrests were made for weapons offenses, driving under the influence, underage drinking, drug possession and distribution, resisting arrest, assault on a police officer and disorderly conduct. Officers claim to have found cocaine, ecstasy, marijuana, mushrooms, alcohol and large amounts of drug paraphernalia. Some of the drugs may include those confiscated from partiers by security guards. Amateur video from the scene shows a number of SWAT police (estimates are at 90) screaming orders at the DJs to "Shut it down now!" and yelling at others to "get out now, or I'll kick your ass in jail". Armed police are also seen tackling a number of rave-goers, and it is unclear from the video footage whether these attendees attempted to attack the police. Due to the low resolution, automatic lighting adjustment, and low audio quality, the video appears to have been taken with a cellular phone. A first hand account from a DJ booked to play at the party stated that while police were arresting a man accused of narcotic possession, the suspect was beaten to the ground and continually "kicked in the ribs" by 4 armed "soldiers" dressed in camouflage. According to the account, nobody resisted the policemen but tear gas was still used as partiers were already dispersing quietly. The DJ also states that police were attempting to confiscate video equipment, but an amateur video has still surfaced on the internet (see sources below). Several partygoers felt they should have the right to attend a rave where drugs are being used, so long as they don't personally use them: "While it may be true that some individuals choose to take drugs at said events like this, myself as well as many others choose to go for the music. Just like anything, you have bad apples, but you shouldn't cut down the tree." "Raves are not the only musical gatherings where drugs are used and distributed." Other partygoers felt that the use of force in the shutdown was excessive - numerous eyewitness accounts by concertgoers describe people being beaten, tasered, or attacked with dogs. One account from an attendee, identified as "Colby", states: "I saw at least two people being beaten on the ground while barking, snarling dogs are held just a few feet from them. Weapons were being pointed at unarmed, peaceful civilians. A friend of mine was forced at gunpoint to put his hands on his head and turn around, because he asked if he could get his things from the tent." Utah County sheriff's Sergeant Darren Gilbert said a 17-year-old girl was found overdosed on ecstasy, and was treated and released to her parents. Multiple lawsuits are being threatened against the city. According to an advertisement for the event, an attorney was present at the party. The local sheriff is scheduled to appear on Utah TV following a number of complaints being sent to TV stations and the police." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 whats your beef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 What's my beef? Is that a serious question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 And for the curious, some eye-witness accounts of what happened (if you scroll past the organizer's statement). http://www.music-versus-guns.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Im serious. Back in the day when I was a wild child I was approached by rave promoters before rave was a party term. Its not as innocent a gathering as you want to make it sound, its a money making endevor based in drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 and incase you dont know about drugs, they tend to be fairly well armed. so no supprise you try to bust a drug group you go in paramilitarly or however you make them sound evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 I used to go to raves more often when I was younger. Everyone there isn't on drugs, or doing drugs, and that is another misconception of the rave scene. Some folks do, but you'll find that at a lot of music scenes (or even football games), as well. Also, the only person that had firearms was the person who *owned* the property; there weren't any armed drug dealers that were busted. There is an entire electronic music aspect to the rave party scene; I make music myself and I am familiar with that aspect. Anyway, that is why you have undercover officers, if you're investigating drugs, and you don't randomly round up groups of citizens without any idea of their innocence or guilt, which is un-American. So, in the world of Dreamingwolf, it is perfectly fine for armed SWAT members, outfitted like a para-military unit, to raid parties, beat people (and young women), hit them in the head with the butt of their weapons, stick guns in their faces, take away their property, and arrest citizens without due cause? Do you live in America, home of the Bill of Rights, where citizens are supposed to have their rights secured? Have you read any of the accounts of that party? I honestly think you don't care, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I love some of the statements :laugh: "... but yet they were throwin tear gas... it gets worst ... but whats even more ****ed up is hundreds of kids on drugs driving home on the freeway while they were just in major trauma." Sounds like a nice party And from reading the the promoters statement,they must have reading comprehension problems. It states that if the party was to exceed 250 people and go over 12 consecutive hours we would have needed to clear it with the county commissioner. WRONG...It states 250 OR more than 12 hrs, not AND. I could go on but why bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 It states that if the party was to exceed 250 people and go over 12 consecutive hours we would have needed to clear it with the county commissioner.WRONG...It states 250 OR more than 12 hrs, not AND. I could go on but why bother. Talking about reading comprension - as stated in one of the articles, they had clearence from the County Commissioner. It was a legal party on private land, to boot. Of course, such trivial details don't matter to law and order types, does it Twa? I already can tell where your opinion is when it's civilians vs the police: the police can wield their authority, no matter what. And EVEN if the party was illegal, the participants in such an illegal party were unknowing and this does not justify the police's actions at all. You don't jump people because they are at an "illegal" party (which wasn't the case anyway). Unless you can tell me why that would be necessary, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Personally, I don't have a problem with the police breaking up a party like this. I need to save the article to show it to my kid to make sure he knows what could happen if he goes to crap like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Spot on Code. They should use the video as a training tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 People won't be outraged that they are kicking girls in the stomach because they're ravers, and as all true Americans know ravers are all whacked out druggie criminals and they are dangerous....and dangerous criminals like ravers have to be beaten into submission before they do something dangerous like blow on you with a vicks vapor stick or or or ask you to rub their hands. Pitty the cops didn't just shoot them all, damn ravers and their neon lights...they are destroying america! Go to any rave club in DC then go to a regular night club. Count the fights at each. Then do a little research and count the number of shootings at rave clubs versus other types. These aren't dangerous criminals Also I've been to a lot of raves, most people aren't on drugs. But don't let reality stop a good armored hippie stomp by america's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Right On!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 This is insane. Then again, it's Utah folks. What are you gonna do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Police at a Rave party in Utah? This is outrageous When did the donny and marie osmond parties end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timitim Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Police at a Rave party in Utah?This is outrageous When did the donny and marie osmond parties end? ARe you kidding. It was because of the Donny and Marie party's that the cops in Utah just don't ask questions anymore. They just break out the assualt rifles, load up the SWAT van and kick the front door down. Lock 'N Load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 The cops could ve mistaken it for a pro monogamy party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Well, I can see where we are in America, with law and order, when people feel it is perfectly acceptable for police to treat civilians in this fashion. That is prefectly fine, according to witnesses, to hit women in the face with the buttstock of their weapons, or to break up legal parties on private property. Or to act in a completely unprofessional manner towards these people. Also, Code, you don't know what goes on at raves, with such dirty, nasty things as dancing. (And I have seen just as much drug use at a Metallica concert as I have seen at a rave, so you better keep your children from attending ANY concert.) The main threat here wasn't the chemicals in someone's body, if that was the case with the individual, but the men with drawn weapons barking orders at them. And use this as training video? YOU HAVE GO TO BE KIDDING; the next step from this point is the police to simply shoot them in the head and be done with it. After all, with drawn weapons and adrenaline, that is bound to happen. But of course, just like with the Brazilian being shot, I am sure some of you would say its the "ravers fault" for being there. Yes, the day we start accepting this as being perfectly fine (as long as it happens to someone else) is the day that creeping facism really is evident. If you can do it here, why not anywhere else? Supporters of it, though, are always oblivious; if I can't explain to someone why this is wrong, they just don't see it. I am amazed that I would even have to explain why sending SWAT teams to a dance party is wrong. And, ya, Destino, glow sticks are considered a form of drug drug paraphernalia: That makes complete sense. But I am sure to these folks, it is necessary to fight the EVIL RAVE CULTURE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Also, Code, you don't know what goes on at raves, with such dirty, nasty things as dancing. (And I have seen just as much drug use at a Metallica concert as I have seen at a rave, so you better keep your children from attending ANY concert.) I agree that there are probably worse things out there, but I'm just being honest in that I wouldn't want my child attending something like that. As for concerts, if it's rock, I'll be going as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Were the breaking the law? Yep. According to the police, they didnt have the necessary permits AND were on public land (at least partially). So the police were right to break it up. And if people decided to resist, they deserved any beatings they got. Dont break the law, obey the police, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Destino, I've seen more fights and bad behavior at rock concerts compared to any rave I have attended. Keep in mind, to that the Rave act can be used against any concert, whether it is a rave or otherwise, which passed finally "passed" when it was tacked onto another unrelated bill. If someone wants to break up a gathering, all they have to do is cite the Rave act and that drugs may be present at the gathering. Never mind the fact that a search order was never even produced during this raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Were the breaking the law?Dont break the law, obey the police, problem solved. Words to live by... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Destino, I've seen more fights and bad behavior at rock concerts compared to any rave I have attended. Keep in mind, to that the Rave act can be used against any concert, whether it is a rave or otherwise, which passed finally "passed" when it was tacked onto another unrelated bill. If someone wants to break up a gathering, all they have to do is cite the Rave act and that drugs may be present at the gathering.Never mind the fact that a search order was never even produced during this raid. Just to be clear, I was agreeing with you and being sarcastic in my first post. There are FAR MORE fights and violent behavior at normal night clubs and rock concerts then at any rave i've ever been to. Ravers are typically peaceful people that want to have a good time, which is why they have their own functions away from everyone else to begin with. This is all typical of modern america, excessive force is just fine so long as you aren't attacking anyone of consequence to the throbbing mass of sheep on voting day. The glow sticks = drug paraphernalia thing was the kicker for me. Just shows you that anything makes sense so long as it's done under the banner of the war on drugs and protecting children. Parents, the root of most irrational law making, are concerned about raves because they saw a news special on tv and now they know ravers are bad bad people that must be stopped.....so the cops go about doing that in their typical manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 Were the breaking the law?Yep. According to the police, they didnt have the necessary permits AND were on public land (at least partially). So the police were right to break it up. And if people decided to resist, they deserved any beatings they got. Dont break the law, obey the police, problem solved. Multiple witnesses attest that these people were not resisting anything or anyone - that if someone said something to the cop, such as "what's happening," that they were thrown to the ground or had the dogs released on them. That is the point: these people were not resisting, but were peaceful in their actions. As if these people are going to "resist" armed members of a SWAT team bristling with firearms... So let me ask you again, Kilmer: it is perfectly acceptable for you, as an example, to smack someone in the face with their weapon or throw down small girls onto the ground and to start kicking them? What do you definite as "resisting" where people should be beat? Is that your idea of proper behavior by lawn enforcement (which is behavior I'd expect more of Soviet-era police as opposed to American police)? Also, they did have a permit: One of the promoters showed his permit to the police, and it was taken from his hand and ripped to pieces. In addition, they were on private land - who knows, maybe someone had parked their car on public land. Folks who were present said that the areas of the party were well-defined by the organizers and that it was a very organized effort, with porta-johns, security, and marked parking/camping spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Were the breaking the law?Dont break the law, obey the police, problem solved. Somehow I don't think well off middle class middle aged people are likely to be tackled in and beaten for attending a function without proper permits. But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your sloganeering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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