This Week's Post Game Merged Ramsey Threads

[goldenster95]

Some things can be characterized as flukes. Albert Connell having a 1000-yard season was a fluke. Mark Brunell throwing for 300 yards against Dallas last year was a fluke.

But arm strength isn't something that just escapes you. It's not something you have one day and don't have another day. Brunell showed me that he had his former arm strength. He could have shown me that if he was playing against the first string defense or the fourth string defense. See my point?

I see your point, and the point still remains that you based your thoughts on Brunell completely on one quarter of pre-season football against third stringers.

Thank you.

[goldenster95]

Your analogies are horrible. Have you ever played the game of football? On game day you put your pads on strap your helmet up and try and destroy the people in the wrong color jerseys. Man vs. Man. This is not a 9 to 5. There is no comparison. When are we going to get back to the matter at hand the QB situation. The person who has to lead this team, run the plays called by the coach , execute, minimize there mistakes, and put points on the scoreboard to defeat the opposing team. PR gives us the best ability to get a big play but does he give us the best opportunity to win?

Oh, please.

The analogy was a near perfect fit. I can't believe you couldn't get the point of the analogy: sometimes there are circumstances beyond your control that affect YOUR bottom line. When that happens, you shouldn't be held accountable for them.

How this isn't an analogy that applies here is beyond me.

As for playing, yes I played and played a little college ball. Apparently, you haven't. Football is a TEAM game. Any one player's performance is affected by his teammates, coaching staff, and other circumstances. That goes any player on the team. Chris Samuels, for instance, was dogged by a crap o-line coach in Kim Helton, who, among other things, told him to change his technique. The upshot of that all was Samuels playing well below what he was capable of and nearly bolting our team because of it.

Get real, man.

[Voice of Reason]

For the umpteenth time, Brunell seems to get winded faster (by the 3rd qtr.) & he can't threaten downfield & defenses KNOW it!

What do you base that on? I can remember Brunell threw the the deep ball more effectively against Dallas in the second half than at any other point in the whole season (which doesn't really say all that much). But nonetheless, I didn't recognize any difference in Brunell's ability to throw the deep ball in the first half in comparison to the second half.

[goldenster95]

What do you base that on? I can remember Brunell threw the the deep ball more effectively against Dallas in the second half than at any other point in the whole season (which doesn't really say all that much). But nonetheless, I didn't recognize any difference in Brunell's ability to throw the deep ball in the first half in comparison to the second half.

Ummmm, the man lofted the ball deep in the Dallas game. He doesn't nearly have the arm to roll right, then throw left and make some of the deep throws our offense will be sporting.

[Mooka]

What do you base that on? I can remember Brunell threw the the deep ball more effectively against Dallas in the second half than at any other point in the whole season (which doesn't really say all that much). But nonetheless, I didn't recognize any difference in Brunell's ability to throw the deep ball in the first half in comparison to the second half.

o really? I thought Brunell was hurt all last year. So he threw the deep ball effectively directly after he hurt his hamstring?

I don't know about Brunell throwing the deep ball but I'm pretty certain that Brunell's body can't hold up for a full 16+game season anymore.

[Dallsux]

What do you base that on? I can remember Brunell threw the the deep ball more effectively against Dallas in the second half than at any other point in the whole season (which doesn't really say all that much). But nonetheless, I didn't recognize any difference in Brunell's ability to throw the deep ball in the first half in comparison to the second half.

Well, see therein lies the trick to the whole thing. I didn't ask you to recognize anything for my opinion. Sure, there were times when Brunell made some decent plays last year. But MY OBSERVATION of him is that he SEEMS to get tired early on in the game & starts to bungle things because he is too tired to make the plays he needs to. But, that's just my opinion, based on what I SAW. Not needing a 16 year old's opinion to give my opinion & observation any merit. I see what I see based on my eyesight & then base my opinion on that. That's what it's based on.

I didn't come in here, see that everyone was bashing Ramsey because of 2 lousy throws, & decide to chime in with it. I stood on my own 2 feet & decided for myself what I saw. That's it.

Brunell is NOT the best QB option this team has. Period. I don't give a rats ass what Aikman, Theismann, Salisbury, Berman, Irvin, Johnston, Buck, etc. has to say on the subject. I can manage to formulate my own opinion.

What is funny is to watch people on this board go from one side of an issue to the other simply because the board is leaning that way. This Brunell issue is a good example. Everyone was RELIEVED to know that Ramsey was going to be the starter this year. Now, everyone has changed their tune because of 2 pre-season games.

Continuity is something that has been missing on this team for a long, long time, & at every turn, it's people like you that want to destroy what continuity we do have to serve your ridiculous ideas. I think that's why Snyder has not been so successful so far. He keeps listening to the fans. And apparently, not the very smart ones either.

[Gamebreaker]

You know as well as I do that Gibbs did not tell or teach Ramsey to lock onto one receiver. And good for Ramsey, he finally got to the second receiver in his progression.

.

That is so blatantly false that I can't believe you attended the game and actually believe that. Either you're lying or you don't know **** about football. Ramsey, as a rookie, would go through his progressions and Spurrier tried to teach him to do it differently.

Before the TD pass, he through a pass to Ladell Betts that would've been a first down if someone who've informed Betts he can't catch the ball with his shoulder pads. Are you claiming Betts was the first option running to the flats out of the backfield? Come on now.

[goldenster95]

That is so blatantly false that I can't believe you attended the game and actually believe that. Either you're lying or you don't know **** about football.

Did you ever think it could be both? :laugh:

Ramsey, as a rookie, would go through his progressions and Spurrier tried to teach him to do it differently.

Exactly. That's not the only thing that Spurrier taught him that he had to unlearn. Among many other things, Ramsey was to hold on to the ball for as long as possible and take a hit if you have to.

He got two years of that BS and has had to unlearn it on the fly. That's why when people say that Ramsey is in his fourth year, they're completely clueless. The first two were completely wasted. This is his really his second year.

Before the TD pass, he through a pass to Ladell Betts that would've been a first down if someone who've informed Betts he can't catch the ball with his shoulder pads. Are you claiming Betts was the first option running to the flats out of the backfield? Come on now.

:laugh:

Th

[PCS]

The big difference that Patrick had to unlearn, ( if memory serves), from his time with S.S. was his post snap read of the LB's and not the Safteys. That's kind of a big thing there,

[Lowghost]

With PR playing, we scored 10 points.

With MB playing, we scored 7 points.

That would mean 6 more points a game. If we had that last year, we would have made the playoffs.

I think having the ability to stretch the field will open things up for our running game, and that is going to be huge.

IMO, MB can't stretch the field, PR just showed he can. :2cents:

[Clinton Portis]

PR doesn't have four years of experiance, he's basically a rookie all over again!

But he has a great arm, great attitude. All he needs to do is learn how to put touch on the ball, and read defenses better.

Patrick is on when he's calm, but if ANY pressure gets into the pocket, he'll regress and panic. Hopefully he can get out of that, and our O Line is doing a good job of protecting P.Ram.

[Voice of Reason]

Before the TD pass, he through a pass to Ladell Betts that would've been a first down if someone who've informed Betts he can't catch the ball with his shoulder pads. Are you claiming Betts was the first option running to the flats out of the backfield? Come on now.

Do you need me to list all the plays in which Ramsey threw into double coverage? They will surely outnumber comepletions to secondary reads in his progression.

Did you ever think it could be both?

I'm not sure why I am forced to defend myself against a person who knows nothing about me calling me a liar. Once again, you're the one acting like a child. I haven't hurled a single insult or rude comment at you. I've stuck to football. Meanwhile, you call me a liar, mock my age, and go out of your way to embarrass me. You're the one indulging in childish name-calling, dude.

[Voice of Reason]

Well, see therein lies the trick to the whole thing. I didn't ask you to recognize anything for my opinion. Sure, there were times when Brunell made some decent plays last year. But MY OBSERVATION of him is that he SEEMS to get tired early on in the game & starts to bungle things because he is too tired to make the plays he needs to. But, that's just my opinion, based on what I SAW. Not needing a 16 year old's opinion to give my opinion & observation any merit. I see what I see based on my eyesight & then base my opinion on that. That's what it's based on.

You could have just said you had no basis.

[PCS]

Okay. I will admit those questions I asked were loaded. Reason being is because there really is no way to answer them with any type of real certainty without actually being in Ashburn. Actually, 1 or 2 of them you would likely have to be on the sidelines with Joe to answer. None can really be answered completely from watching the TV. That said, I'm going to answer them with no real certainty and only some guesswork based on what I may know, ( little), of the WCO, Musgraves teachings as a result, and what I've seen on TV. :doh: This will also in a way provide a dispute or 2 with other provided answers.

Keep in mind the 100% correct answer for the previous questions was, " I have no real idea because....."

1) With last season and with the before mentioned WCO stuff in mind, I think I've noticed a few things.

Patrick does not have happy feet. He's doing, ( I believe), exactly what he's been taught to do. Keep his feet moving while watching the coverage, receivers, and making time while the receivers get open. This is taught to guys in the WCO and other offenses. Sort of like squaring off for a tackle. Keep your feet moving. It appears to be an obvious change and it is working. He's keeping his feet squared and they are not shuffling per say for the most part. He moves by the time he gets to the 3rd receiver because usually by this time things are getting interesting in the pocket. He moves up a little or to the side to make time for his receivers to get open. There's also the hitch step in there. A little hop if you will when stepping up and it also provides just a little more time for the receiver to clear. Watch the plays and if you can, you'll see. Also, his head stays looking to the center, ( I say that with more than a little caution. No way we can be sure from watching the TV and the angle provided). When he has too move he does and still points forward to throw the ball. Keep in mind not every pass has the opportunity to square up. The touch stuff has been talked to death.

2) Now that's a tough one. Clearly a I have no clue one there. However, we do know about the shotgun. As for other stuff, I can go on what we know about Musgrave and his history with a WCO offense. Take a look at the Carolina game and you'll see the quick drops and short and intermmediate routes that tend to populate that offense. The deep pass the team has had. Joe's always had that one and he used it last season as well. We all saw the results of many of those. I'm thinking that Joe and Musgrave are working on certain parts of Patricks mechanics in unison with the type of plays called.

3) Easy answer. No way to say for sure. One simply cannot look at the TV and say for sure what Patricks reads were and if he was checking down. Why? Because you can't see for sure what the routes were being run right away and who the primary and secondary guys were. The last option was clear for obvious reasons at times. Patrick's head seemed to stay looking to the middle for the most part, unless he threw left. His body stayed pretty square as well. DB's on the field have a hard time judging what a QB is going to do and theyr'e on field. They eyes can tell all and patting the ball can be an indicator that the QB is getting ready to throw, ( No. Patting is not a huge problem if at all. Almost all QB's have and do pat the thing to one degree or another. Montana was good at patting it right before he threw for example).

4) See above. Can't really be done for sure. Coaches have game films and playbooks and such to reference too.

5) Again, have no real idea except what was being done. And answering one question can answer another. And I did that above.

Just a little stuff for thought.

[goldenster95]

I'm not sure why I am forced to defend myself against a person who knows nothing about me calling me a liar. Once again, you're the one acting like a child. I haven't hurled a single insult or rude comment at you. I've stuck to football. Meanwhile, you call me a liar, mock my age, and go out of your way to embarrass me. You're the one indulging in childish name-calling, dude.

No, I'm not. You're doing quite a good job of that yourself. And it's not me who's pointing that out. Why don't you take a look at growing chorus of posters here that offer up that opinion of you?

That happens when you make absurd comments about Brunell based on one pre-season quarter of play against third stringers and then, when called on it, try to embarassingly back out of it. Maybe, just maybe, you'll learn a lesson for life in conceding something and moving on. And maybe you won't draw the comments you've seen here from other folks than me. I quoted that little ditty from CowboyzSuckAzz ("if you were my voice of reason, I would shot myself") as a half-hearted stab at comic relief. But his shot at you contained more than a kernel of truth in it. The other poster who fired on you here was less than forgiving. While he might've used a little discretion in his delivery, maybe you outta think carefully about the assessment others here share about you.

Ponder that, son. Really.

[goldenster95]

Okay. I will admit those questions I asked were loaded. Reason being is because there really is no way to answer them with any type of real certainty without actually being in Ashburn.

So the pop quiz doesn't count, right? If so, I'm feeling that fever breaking. :laugh:

[PCS]

So the pop quiz doesn't count, right? If so, I'm feeling that fever breaking. :laugh:

Pretty much. Though I should deduct points and send you to a Cowboys board for anwering the darn things. Truth be told, I was breaking out in a fever just asking the things. Just wanted to see if anyone answered and what they would be. Hell I answered them. I guess I need to go to the corner too.

Aw hell. It's fun though ain't it?

[goldenster95]

Pretty much. Though I should deduct points and send you to a Cowboys board for anwering the darn things. Truth be told, I was breaking out in a fever just asking the things. Just wanted to see if anyone answered and what they would be. Hell I answered them. I guess I need to go to the corner too.

Aw hell. It's fun though ain't it?

Well, so long as I don't have to take the quiz for my momma to sign it, we'll call it even, right? :laugh:

[PCS]

Right. :laugh:

[Voice of Reason]

I'll just say that 216 (as of right now) fans agree with me that Brunell should start against Pittsburgh.

I'm still clueless as to how I backed off my statements in the other thread. Honestly.

And I don't think everyone here thinks I'm as clueless as you do. At least I hope not.

[goldenster95]

I'll just say that 216 (as of right now) fans agree with me that Brunell should start against Pittsburgh.

I'm still clueless as to how I backed off my statements in the other thread. Honestly.

And I don't think everyone here thinks I'm as clueless as you do. At least I hope not.

Who cares how many folks agree with you on the Brunell issue? The issue here isn't that, it's the fact that you reached your conclusion on Brunell on abjectly baseless rationale. And yes, you did try to weasel out of saying that you didn't base your conclusions on the Brunell thing on his one quarter of pre-season play. And you're doing that again.

As for "everyone" thinking you're clueless, no not "everyone" does. But some do. And at least one has come out firing with that opinion. Care to scroll up to review what he said? And, if anyone reasonable would review what you've said, they'd come to the same conclusion.

[Voice of Reason]

Who cares how many folks agree with you on the Brunell issue? The issue here isn't that, it's the fact that you reached your conclusion on Brunell on abjectly baseless rationale. And yes, you did try to weasel out of saying that you didn't base your conclusions on the Brunell thing on his one quarter of pre-season play. And you're doing that again.

You'll notice I never mentioned Brunell going 11 of 19 or leading the team on our only scoring drive. I simply stated Brunell's arm strength had been restored and as a result would be a better quarterback than Ramsey. That's just my opinion, and you're free to disagree. But I think you have some sort of misconception that everyone on this board shares the same opinion as you on Ramsey and Brunell.

[goldenster95]

You'll notice I never mentioned Brunell going 11 of 19 or leading the team on our only scoring drive. I simply stated Brunell's arm strength had been restored and as a result would be a better quarterback than Ramsey. That's just my opinion, and you're free to disagree. But I think you have some sort of misconception that everyone on this board shares the same opinion as you on Ramsey and Brunell.

No, I didn't need to notice that. All I needed to notice was the title of your thread, "Brunell Should Start." And, as suggested by the title of your thread, it was hardly something based on Brunell's supposed newly found arm strength, something even Brunell denies.

As for the misconception you refer to, you must be kidding. I'm more than painfully aware that the Ramsey/Brunell issue is a divisive topic here. How you conclude that I'm somehow blind to that is a mystery. What I did, however, point out was what others thought of the way you (il)logically processed your information. I've already commented on that.

[Gamebreaker]

Do you need me to list all the plays in which Ramsey threw into double coverage? They will surely outnumber comepletions to secondary reads in his progression.

Please do so, if you can.