Baculus Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 I do not think a belief in God does not have to preclude a belief in "aliens" or life outside this planet and/or solar system. After all, what seems more godly - a single inhabited planet in the entire huge universe, or a universe teeming with God's creation? (This is the same argument I use in creationism vs evolution debates: That God taking millions of years to develop life seems more of a "God-life" time span as opposed to merely thousands of years.) I know christians who are also sci-fi fans in addition to being interested in UFOs and extraterrestial life. Of course, there are aetheists who are probably skeptical of UFOs, so it's up to each person to believe what they want, and how dogmatic they are about their beliefs. Dogmatism can lead to odd things, of course. While we are on the subject: http://www.greatdreams.com/christians-against-aliens.htm According to this link, some christians believe that UFOs are demons trying to lead believers away from God and to the devil. This is my fear: That the age-old religious backlash against science will lead to even the possibilities of UFOs and ETs being ignored, merely because of faith. For example, Pat Robertson's opinion that UFO enthisiasts should be stoned: http://www.parascope.com/articles/0897/ufodeath.htm (I've seen this mentioned in both of the above links. Is he serious, or is this a joke?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by rebornempowered Check your facts on nearly everything here you stated. The belief of a flat earth is greatly overstated. No young earth creationist believes the earth is 3000 years old it's actually between 6,000 and 10,000. Macro-evolution isn't exactly something to hang your hat on either. Not to mention that this whole debate about life on other planets is really about evolution anyway (don't want to start that discussion it has been discussed at length and I don't want to go there but it's a fact). If life could come about by chance, time, struggle, and death here it must have happened elsewhere. If this was not true they wouldn't have named the Euro Mars rover Beagle 2. 3,000 6,000 or 10,000 years are all barely noticeable amounts of time when compared to the billions of years old science says the earth is. And life on other planets is not necessarily a debate on evolution. Why is it impossible to think that if there is a god, and he did create earth 10,000 years ago (or whatever), that he didn't create more than one? Each with its own bible, each with its own Jesus or other prophet-type figure, etc. Or maybe they all have seen the same Jesus. If he was resurrected once, why not 1,000 times? To me, keeping in mind that I'm not a man of faith, this is a reasonable scenario. I mean, if I were god, and I had the power to create a planet filled with people, I'd want to try a few, just to make sure I got it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Baculus (This is the same argument I use in creationism vs evolution debates: That God taking millions of years to develop life seems more of a "God-life" time span as opposed to merely thousands of years.) A god that would use struggle and death to make life is not a god I would want to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Baculus I do not think a belief in God does not have to preclude a belief in "aliens" or life outside this planet and/or solar system. After all, what seems more godly - a single inhabited planet in the entire huge universe, or a universe teeming with God's creation? (This is the same argument I use in creationism vs evolution debates: That God taking millions of years to develop life seems more of a "God-life" time span as opposed to merely thousands of years.) I know christians who are also sci-fi fans in addition to being interested in UFOs and extraterrestial life. Of course, there are aetheists who are probably skeptical of UFOs, so it's up to each person to believe what they want, and how dogmatic they are about their beliefs. Dogmatism can lead to odd things, of course. While we are on the subject: http://www.greatdreams.com/christians-against-aliens.htm According to this link, some christians believe that UFOs are demons trying to lead believers away from God and to the devil. This is my fear: That the age-old religious backlash against science will lead to even the possibilities of UFOs and ETs being ignored, merely because of faith. For example, Pat Robertson's opinion that UFO enthisiasts should be stoned: http://www.parascope.com/articles/0897/ufodeath.htm (I've seen this mentioned in both of the above links. Is he serious, or is this a joke?) This is true. The big-bang theory was originally suggested by a Catholic priest, after all, Georges Lemaître. He has a famous quote that goes something like this: "There are two paths to understanding the universe; I have chosen to travel both of them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by skinsfan913 How would your faith be affected if and when we do make contact with another life form. I mean we are all supposed to be created in HIs image right? So what if these beings are Reptillian for instance. Then where does this put the Bible stories God Himself? I can't recall anyone or anything saying anything other than Humans being created in his image. Which would explain why the many species of animals that roam the planet don't look like us. Please don't believe all the Reptillian and Grays stuff :doh: Pure science fiction with absolutely no credible evidence to even remotely back it up. This is my fear: That the age-old religious backlash against science will lead to even the possibilities of UFOs and ETs being ignored, merely because of faith. Who/What exactly are you fearing? People who believe in UFOs and ETs will believe in UFOs and ETs, those who don't.....don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 A god that would use struggle and death to make life is not a god I would want to serve. Have you ever read the Old Testament? There are passages after passages of struggle and death, all sanctied by the Old Testament God. If you feel the above way, then your God is not the same violent God as the old testament. (And I am not trying to be facetious - the new testament is a violent tome in some passages.) Violence had to be used, seemingly, for the Israelites to survive - is that the same as evolution, in some degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Who/What exactly are you fearing? Being stoned by Pat Robertson, perhaps? :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by jrockster77 I mean, if I were god, and I had the power to create a planet filled with people, I'd want to try a few, just to make sure I got it right! He did get it right. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:31a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by rebornempowered He did get it right. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:31a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Baculus Have you ever read the Old Testament? There are passages after passages of struggle and death, all sanctied by the Old Testament God. If you feel the above way, then your God is not the same violent God as the old testament. (And I am not trying to be facetious - the new testament is a violent tome in some passages.) Violence had to be used, seemingly, for the Israelites to survive - is that the same as evolution, in some degrees? Many times but all of that death is after the fall of man. God did not use death to create life. Death is the enemy. God revealed himself as a law giver in the Old Testament and the price to pay for sin (not individual sins) is death. The NT is about God paying that debt for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Baculus Have you ever read the Old Testament? There are passages after passages of struggle and death, all sanctied by the Old Testament God. If you feel the above way, then your God is not the same violent God as the old testament. (And I am not trying to be facetious - the new testament is a violent tome in some passages.) Violence had to be used, seemingly, for the Israelites to survive - is that the same as evolution, in some degrees? Romans 6:23 says For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebornempowered Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Baculus Being stoned by Pat Robertson, perhaps? :-P For the record Pat Robertson is not a Biblical creationist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Skins24 The original quote was There aren't. There are billions of stars and billions of planets sure. Just not in our solar system. This is it: 1 Star, 9 Planets. That's all I'm saying. The stars we see at night are other stars in the Milky Way galaxy not in our solar system I was wondering where you were going with that... My bad, that's not what I intended to post...:laugh: :doh: I think you know what I meant though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Just to get back OT and away from Bible quotes... More recent footage: http://www.ufodigest.com/mexicaninvasion.html I don't think this footage is as good as my originally posted links, but it's more recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by rebornempowered He did get it right. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:31a Ah-ha, but where in Genesis does it say it was his first try?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by jrockster77 Ah-ha, but where in Genesis does it say it was his first try?!? So tell me something about evolutionism. Where did the first man come from? For that matter, the planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by airborneskins So tell me something about evolutionism. Where did the first man come from? For that matter, the planet? I think the most recent findings are that "man" originated in Africa. We spread out from Africa, evolving as we went and eliminating the weaker species. As far as the planet, the theory goes that the right mixture of gases and minerals accumluated in the right spot at the right time to form the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by jrockster77 I think the most recent findings are that "man" originated in Africa. We spread out from Africa, evolving as we went and eliminating the weaker species. As far as the planet, the theory goes that the right mixture of gases and minerals accumluated in the right spot at the right time to form the planet. But where did these gases and minerals come from? And does that mean that If I had the right amount of gases and minerals, I too could make my own planet? Also, what do you mean by evolving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by airborneskins But where did these gases and minerals come from? And does that mean that If I had the right amount of gases and minerals, I too could make my own planet? Also, what do you mean by evolving? I'm not as familiar with the theory of earth's creation as I used to be. I read several books on it years ago, and its not fresh in my memory. I suppose, theoretically, if you had all the right ingredients, a vacuum, and an energy source you could reproduce the earth forming. I don't know for sure, though. e·volve ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-vlv) v. e·volved, e·volv·ing, e·volves v. tr. To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one's own. To work (something) out; devise: “the schemes he evolved to line his purse” (S.J. Perelman). Biology. To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes. To give off; emit. v. intr. To undergo gradual change; develop: an amateur acting group that evolved into a theatrical company. Biology. To develop or arise through evolutionary processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by jrockster77 I'm not as familiar with the theory of earth's creation as I used to be. I read several books on it years ago, and its not fresh in my memory. I suppose, theoretically, if you had all the right ingredients, a vacuum, and an energy source you could reproduce the earth forming. I don't know for sure, though. e·volve ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-vlv) v. e·volved, e·volv·ing, e·volves v. tr. To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one's own. To work (something) out; devise: “the schemes he evolved to line his purse” (S.J. Perelman). Biology. To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes. To give off; emit. v. intr. To undergo gradual change; develop: an amateur acting group that evolved into a theatrical company. Biology. To develop or arise through evolutionary processes. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Smart@ss.. So are you incinuating that we came from animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by airborneskins :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Smart@ss.. So are you incinuating that we came from animals? Yes, we evolved from monkeys, specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by jrockster77 Yes, we evolved from monkeys, specifically. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I know I didn't evolve from a monkey.. But if that is what they want to believe...:rotflmao: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 This Is Not An Evolution Topic. Take it elsewhere. I think we are seeing the latest trend in "immigration". Hop a personal balloon and bypass the border patrol all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by stevenaa This Is Not An Evolution Topic. Take it elsewhere. I think we are seeing the latest trend in "immigration". Hop a personal balloon and bypass the border patrol all together. Yo chill, thread police! The discussion naturally evolved into an evolution discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by stevenaa This Is Not An Evolution Topic. Take it elsewhere. Too late. The Faith healers are here to educate us all Thanks for screwing up a rediculously silly thread And yes you are entitled to your opinion. As am I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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