CousinsCowgirl84

She said no funding for a wall until the government is open, not no funding for a wall, ever. In fact she promised to negotiate money for a wall but only if trump agreed to cleanly open the government.

plus these guys aren’t obstructing justice just for kicks...

Dot dot dot You are skipping what I said in the middle. I can understand from his point of view the only way to get a wall is to shut down the government. He’s desperate. I don’t understand why democrats don’t seize this opportunity to get almost everything they want.

Sorry. Pelosi said she wasn’t going to negotiate until the government was open. (Although I now note not negotiating is a negotiation tactic)

I do understand that. I don’t think we should be too exciting about anyone choosing to flex muscle out of spite, at the cost of attempting to enact policies that actually help Americans. I’m not justifying his actions. I’m being critical of Pelosi’s response. There’s a difference. There have been a few grand scale compromises that made wide scale policy changes in America’s past... it’s possible.

Not give up, get in return. Their are a lot of policy changes that would do a lot of good. More good than the harm of 5 billion for a partial wall.

You are 100 percent correct, which is why pelosi should use her maximum leverage to get maximum concessions on broad ranging legislation to enact policies her side supports. I don’t really think the political game your advocating hurts the president. His 36 percent isn’t going to leave over “obstructionist Democrats and fake news media” and the remaining 64 percent already know what he is about.... him caving on DACA in return for a wall probably hurts him more that reopening the government for nothing.

They elected him to lead... also, you are missing the point. Let’s assume you are right with the test of your post. Your telling me there is nothing the dems want that’s worth more than a wall?

Here is what I don’t get. On trumps side, he wants a wall. Let’s agree it’s terrible, ineffective, ect. But he really wants it. I can understand shutting down the government to get what you want. Justify is a different question, but i can see the reasoning. on the democratic side though the answer is a flat no to any money for a wall. And trump is desperate. He really wants that wall. I find it hard to believe that there is nothing on the democratic side that isn’t worth pissing away 5 billion dollars on a wall that can be thrown out the minute Trump gets tossed out of office. I mean, DACA, Gun Control, Minimum wage. I think the dems are playing the petty game with trump instead of getting what the want. It makes no since to me. So if someone would explain to me why they aren’t using the huge amount of leverage they have to get some of the policies they want in exchange for 5 billion dollars I would appreciate it Its not caving or giving into an imperial president if you get more than you give.

Yea, I’m not taking issue with their decision not to negotiate.

No... the dems said they aren’t going to compromise till the government is open. Thats true...

The democrats are, without a doubt, not interested in compromise. Trump does want compromise.

Invisible walls are THE BEST. Much better than steel. Doesn’t rust. We are gonna build the best invisible wall and manga.

im not a fan of the president but you don’t have to be to see that cohen is full of ****. The fact that trump has no clothes shows that cohen has nothing to fear from trump threats, even if they did happen. He’s full of ****.

Cohen can’t testify because Trump is threatening him. Yeah, ok bro. Cohen is just a liar...

I thought the conclusion was that everyone there was acting like a **** head. I’m not sure what the deal was with the Indian guy though. He didn’t say anything objectionable did he?

Should of used his left hand....

there is more than one way to “stand your ground”

Needing the money for a wall or not, that wasn’t my point. My point that the dems voted for a barrier before but now they are acting like it’s worth shutting down the government over. And it’s not the 6 billion they take issue with this time, it’s a single dime. The republicans had plenty of time to build a wall if they really wanted one, but now they are acting like it’s worth shutting the government down over. The difference is the republicans are “offering deals” they know the democrats won’t take (like a temporary daca deal instead of a permanent one) while the democrats response is a flat no. I would rather them “offer deals” than pack their **** up and go home.

I agree, it is mostly a power struggle.

not gaslighting. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/23/mick-mulvaney/fact-check-did-top-democrats-vote-border-wall-2006/ Politifact does a decent job trying to turn a fact into a half fact by giving top dems excuses for voting for physical barriers, but a vote is a vote.

If you get 36 percent of the total us population (not of the electorate) to go out and vote for you i think you win most of the time. Especially since most of the democratic population is in a few states and with the electoral college set up the way it is.. I agree that a long shutdown is foolish, but i don’t see trump caring about that.

Yea, and that’s 36 percent of the population. Those people are insanely committed to trump. As long as he has those 36 percent he can get re-elected. He doesn’t need to open the government. I just wonder how the people who are advocating not negotiating with trump see this playing out.

The dems do not have to cave... they really don’t even have to give him a offer that he can accept. But giving him no funding for a wall (despite giving money in the past) is a bad look imo. It plays good in the short term, but democrats have more to lose that trump does. He’s approval rankings are already in the tank and his supporters want a fight, they don’t even care about winning. I think as time goes on a trump keeps going on the tv making “offers” to the democrats and their response is a flat “no” (as they did tonight) it will grow tiresome for more and more people. The dems should be making their own offers that give him some money for a wall (1-2 billion) in exchange for permanent DACA, and any other stuff they can cram in. Then they can say they are making offers to pay for a wall and trump isn’t negotiating.

Isn’t the government typically shut down as a bargaining chip? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States Seems like every time it has been shut down it’s because the president wants x and the controlling party doesn’t want x. (or vice versa). I’m not seeing anything particular unique about this case. Seems that is what the dems should be asking for, but they are not.