wit33

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Count me in Camp MacDonald. I was offense or bust but Slowik doesn’t appear to be much of a hot commodity.

 

MacDonald is my fav of those remaining — we can figure something else out for OC.

Might be a competitive edge if you secure one of the lone defensive minds that provides a chance against all the nerdy OCs and offensive head coaches. 
 

His defense recovered well and showed up under the bright lights in the AFC championship game. 

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah my interest in Maye was pairing him with Johnson. It was a match made in heaven. Now? I don't know. I think if we get Macdonald, pairing him with Jayden Daniels could be like Ravens 2.0. But I still have reservations with him as a passer.

His throwing motion is intriguing, especially when considering his potential to consistently make the elementary throws that an OC frequently schemes. Unlike many elite dual-threat players with awkward or inconsistent throwing motions, Daniels seems to have a smoother approach, raising hopes for accuracy on basic throws. However, the true test of his processing abilities and adaptation will only be revealed in live game situations.

He's already on track to elevate a team's run offense to a top-5 level, but if he can combine that with consistent accuracy on strategically designed throws, that adds an intriguing dimension and an elevated floor. 

18 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Imagine if they had the 20th ranked D instead of by far the 1st. 

 

They'd have finished 8-8 with a decent year from their QB. 

Uncover more layers, as there's much more to explore:

- #4 scoring offense
- Gus Edwards with 13 rushing TDs (considered an average RB for Baltimore)
- #8 in time of possession
- #4 in team rushing touchdowns
- #1 in rushing yards per game

Set aside personal bias, embrace the numbers, and let new perspectives unfold. You're welcome.

17 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Not having an injury can come down to straight up luck many times. Daniels looks like he's built out of twizzlers and I'd be shocked if he was actually 200 lbs on game days. It's mostly miraculous that he didn't have any major injuries with some of the brutal hits that he took. And in the NFL the vast majority of guys are going to be even bigger and faster. So unless he learns to protect himself better, it's probably just a matter of time.

He needs to improve self-protection, and it's frustrating that he lacks a baseball slide, a skill often mastered. Despite this, what makes him intriguing is his apparent good spatial awareness and attributes that enable him to avoid significant hits, especially along the sidelines.

Absolutely, the allure of a high floor and immediate impact from a great to elite dual-threat QB is undeniable. The elite ones tend to avoid busts and offer significant returns, particularly during their rookie contracts. 
 

Whether they can win a SB like Russell Wilson or get to one like Kaepernick, Newton or Hurts is another story. 

17 hours ago, Conn said:

This conversation has gone around in circles for a month now already, so I’ll stop after this. 
 

But Lamar Jackson protects himself. He has a supernatural sixth sense for incoming defenders and insane spatial awareness. That is what Daniels does not have right now. That’s the “doesn’t protect himself” that everyone’s talking about. I refer you to my last post about how NFL teams need to decide for themselves how they will evaluate his ability to develop that skill (or not).  

Which has what to do with his comment about the placement of the throw?

Completely agree regarding Lamar's skill in avoiding hits; he's essentially a QB with RB-like skills and awareness.

I'm fascinated by Daniels' throwing mechanics in comparison to other elite dual-threat players. I envision him thriving in a Ben Johnson-type offense, consistently making the kind of throws Goff has executed in recent seasons.

Daniels appears capable of bringing instant rhythm to an offense, especially with scripted plays and fundamental passes that make up a substantial portion (50-70%) of throws in a game. Generally, the elite dual threat guys must provide rhythm through the run game, play action, and screen game. Your thoughts?

13 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Lamar, like Manning, is an exceptional regular season QB who has had the misfortune of playing in the same era and conference as a top 3 QB of all time.

 

 

 

Say it louder so the back can hear it. 
 

I also compared Lamar’s regular season winning to Peyton (post his rookie season). 
 

Peyton….51-29

Lamar…..58-19

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes, I said very clearly that I thought he wasn't worth the money and wouldn't win a SB. I still don't think he will. He tends not to show up in big games and, as I said, once you take away his legs he's in serious trouble because he's only a mediocre passer without that. Imagine what will happen once he loses a step or two as he gets a little older. It will be even easier to shut him down.

 

And who cares if he wins MVP if he never does anything with it? He can put it on his mantle and look at it as he's watching the Super Bowl at home.

The notion of "Super Bowl or bust" doesn't entirely capture your perspectives expressed over the last couple of seasons, but that's something for you to address.

Relying on a Super Bowl as a crux weakens about 95% of debates to support your viewpoint.

Disregarding an MVP is notable; it seems there are blinders on when it comes to evaluating Jackson.

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

My position on Lamar coming into the season was that he wouldn't be a SB winner and once you were able to take his legs away he'd devolve and be mediocre.

 

How did that work out?

SB winner lol 

Continue to move the goalposts while he likely secures his second MVP. 
 

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Comparing Russel Wilson to Lamar Jackson is dumb.

 

Your position on Lamar coming into the season was dumb. 
 

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Wilson was always a passer first, who would use his athleticism and scrambling ability sometimes to get yards, but who usually used it to buy time outside of the pocket and get the ball to his players downfield. Jackson is a runner first, passer second. Once his running is either mitigated or taken away, his passing becomes mediocre at best. Which is exactly what happened yesterday.

Wilson's superpower lies in his legs. The early career comparisons hold somemerit, considering that his legs were the primary factor contributing to his impact during the initial years of his rookie contract. 
 

Wilson possesses an elite deep ball, but he tends to be below average in most other aspects of throwing the football. The game plan remains consistent for both him (when Wilson was willing to run) and similar quarterbacks – keep them in the pocket and challenge them to throw from there. This scouting report has been a constant throughout Wilson's entire career. Dude is below average from the pocket, as is Jackson. 

28 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

He's still in the category of guys who could throw from the pocket and had athleticism, not necessarily someone whose legs were the primary weapon. He just happens to have lost most of... pretty much everything. 

No, he’s below average and always has been below average in the pocket. 

1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

 

That doesn't change the fact that a dual-threat QB (which is really just legs first/arms second) has never won a SB. They get figured out when the regular season is over. Lamar was inaccurate as hell yesterday, regardless the playcalling. Why? Because that's what he is. Saying "Well, only one QB can win the Super Bowl every year, so that doesn't mean the others are worthless" doesn't change how the game changes when you're moving on in the post-season.

Russel Wilson would like a word. 

1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

 

That's exactly what changes as you progress in the post-season. Take out his legs (figuratively) and dare him to beat you otherwise. They've paid him a ton of money now and have to accept he is what he is while trying to be thrifty elsewhere.

I assume the Ravens are content with the return on investment (ROI) with Jackson. Being economical in certain aspects with an MVP QB is par for the course. Having Jackson as your QB in one of the most competitive sports virtually guarantees a 70-75% win rate, and considering the myriad variables involved in securing a victory in the NFL that’s unreal. 

Hes the Peyton Manning of the regular season. Let’s see if the chips fall his way and his team can pull out a SB one of these years. 
 

1 hour ago, Ghost of said:

But Purdy and Mahomes can both run and move. Arguably, if Purdy wasn't hurt last year, this is the same matchup we'd have.  Also, the difference is that some Qbs come up short but have great games while doing so and the difference is just the defenses, special teams, bad coaching.  Although Lamar wasn't awful yesterday the lesson I'd take is:

 

1) You need to be really good from the pocket and have ability to make drive-sustaining/back-breaking runs. 

2) You also need to use your mobility to look downfield.

 

I don't think you need to be "elite" in Lamar's particular ability to run, shift, and mostly avoid mega-hits.

 

All of the QBs we're looking at can move, that's not the issue. What we want is someone who can do #1 really well when the times call for it because that's what will set them apart from the guy who is more "average" at dissecting defenses or as a passer but is "great" at running.

Ravens got away from their true identity on offense and passed the ball too much. The play caller appeared to panic when hit the mouth by two early scores from the Chiefs offense. 
 

Zay Flowers fumbled at the goal line. 

Lamar could’ve been better. 

3 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

This is true, but the "dual threat" guys tend to get boggled down more than not in the moments that matter most. Force them to throw, they take on too much and implode. I look at Goff yesterday. He wasn't at all why Detroit lost. HC left 6 six points on the field and the WR's had key drops at the worst moments. I'd take that skillset with escapability and athleticism over someone whose legs are the primary thing against which teams plan.

Don't most great quarterbacks face challenges or get bogged down in the playoffs and fall short of winning Super Bowls? 

However, I want to emphasize that I don't align with the belief that a Super Bowl victory is the sole determinant of a quarterback's value from season to season.

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I don't care about the past 30 years anymore, I care about the next 30. A QB with his skillset isn't the key. Gets a lot of praise, highlight clips and oohs and aaahs during the regular season, predictably falls apart in the postseason.

This is a similar fate most great QBs face year in and year out. It’s not only reserved for the elite dual threat guys. 

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Lamar wasn't bad yesterday. I think the play calling was desperate and cost them. You're the top running team and on 3rd and 1 you're throwing 30 yard passes? It was just dumb.

 

They also need to sell out this draft and move up for a true WR1 or sign Mike Evans or both.

Greg Roman wins that game, just saying  

2 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

And Elway lost several Super Bowls, before finally winning a couple late in his career on the back of a good defense and running game. You can go all the way back to Fran Tarkenton if you want, running quarterbacks win a lot of games just not the Super Bowl.

Truthfully, not many QBs secure Super Bowls, and I find it to be a somewhat lazy metric.

However, in today's game where many quarterbacks can run, Purdy's three second-half runs proved to be game-changers, setting him apart from Goff. 

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

 

No doubt Daniels is a superior athlete but hes also rail thin and his frame will get him killed. And Daniels doesnt have Jackson’s quick twitch wiggle or elusiveness(again noone does, dudes a unicorn). 

I notice impressive twitch and agility in J. Daniels, not quite elite like Jackson, but not too far off. Early on, I hesitate to compare him to RG3 in terms of running, as RG3 lacked the quick movements and lateral agility. Daniels excels at avoiding hits near the sideline, but shows hesitancy when navigating between or near the hashes, lacking the ease of sliding and finding open spaces in the middle of the field.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if Daniels' short-area speed measurements are on par with or close to Jackson's.

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The athletic running QBs often tend to shoot up mock draft boards as the draft nears. Sometimes they're right (Anthony Richardson), sometimes they're wrong  (Malik Willis). 

Indeed, I've been on this tangent for a decade emphasizing the value of an elite dual-threat player. However, the league's increasing athleticism at that position has somewhat diminished the value of such players.

It's noteworthy that elite dual-threat individuals drafted in the first round seldom disappoint.

Ron fits being a coordinator—Could see him crush it in this role. Be in the background and worry about connecting with 20-30 defensive players and that be it. 

1 hour ago, formerly4skins said:

Total conjecture from the twitter-verse...but, if MIA were to shop Tua his +4500yds, 29TD, and almost 70% completion rate this past year would make him worth considering. 

 

Wouldn't be worth pick 1.2 to me, but we've got a lot of draft capital to throw around...maybe J. Allen + a 2nd or something like that.

 

 

 

The gravy train seems to be ending for these mediocre QBs.

Kudos to Mike McDaniel for his bold approach, having the confidence to generate 30 TDs and 4500 yards without shelling out exorbitant money for this tier of QB. High salaries paid to QBs is one the biggest NFL heists of the last 15 years.

This is an offensive head coach (Mike McDaniel) potentially providing elite level returns if he can generate similar offensive production with a rookie or modestly paid veteran. Why wouldn’t you get Ryan Tannenhill for $10-12mil. The weakest move is for an offensive coach to spend ridiculous money on a mediocre QB to secure average returns. 
 

Fascinated to see how hat happens with Jordan Love as well. 

2 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

They have to interview two minority or female candidates under the current version of the Rooney Rule. Interviewing both Bienemy and Morris would satisfy that.

 

EB seems to have a more favorable reputation inside the league than he does among us Commanders fans.
 

I'm torn on this.

• There were alarm bells in camp about his leadership style.
• His playcalling seemed odd at times, decent at others.
• I didn't see a lot of adjustments.
• Brissett moved the team down the field pretty easily in EB's offense. 
• Tough for me to say how much of Howell's struggles late in the season were on him versus EB.

The concerns about his leadership style are the main reason I wouldn't hire him. Maybe the team needed some shaking up, but I didn't sense that the offensive players were willing to "jump through a brick wall" for him.

The resurgence of his leadership style in the NFL is noticeable, with Dan Campbell leading the way and the recent inclusion of Antonio Pierce. Trends in the league often follow cyclical patterns. 

In line with your observation, players might not immediately rally to his defense, but building genuine rapport takes time, often linked to financial rewards. It's likely that players like Wylie and Pringle, who potentially benefited financially, have a positive view of him.

48 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

All the talk about MacD’s defense stopping the offensive candidates’ teams is almost nonsensical. That only proves he knows his Xs and Os and can lead a unit. Being a HC is a different deal. There are a lot more skills involved, not to mention the temperament and personality. We’ve seen any number of brilliant, successful coordinators on both sides of the ball be awful HCs.

 

I think MacD will probably do well wherever he lands. That said, I’d prefer we go with Johnson or Slowik. Finding DCs is a hell of a lot easier than finding a new OC every few years. If the HC is calling the plays, or can do it if need be, it gives your team a real advantage in terms of continuity IMO.

 

Completely on board with going against the norm and bringing in a defensive coordinator (DC) who offers a potential schematic advantage in the playoffs. Macdonald demonstrated a comparable impact to that of an elite quarterback in yesterday's game against the high-flying Texans by effectively shutting them down.

I support the idea of maintaining a defensive schematic edge for the next two decades while hoping to secure an elite quarterback, thereby diminishing the significance of an offensive coordinator (OC).

Not suggesting that this is the sole model. I'm fully aligned with the concept that in an organization, elite leadership and intangibles reign supreme when it comes to a coach.

47 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Jayden Daniels and Chip Kelley sounds like my nightmare.

 

 

Unlikely due to his strong personality, but if he clearly communicates that he's done as a head coach, there could be some potential value. This is contingent on Daniels being the pick for me.

37 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

Chip Kelly hasn’t been able to re-create anywhere he’s been since the old days at Oregon, not w/Eagles or UCLA, I’d rather take a flyer on Greg Roman (and I don’t want him either) then on Kelly… a HARD NO for me

Greg Roman would be a stellar hire if Daniels is the pick. It's amusing how he gets criticized for being a trailblazer in the NFL, especially considering the current Ravens OC receiving all the credit.

33 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Would you?

 

 

If Jayden Daniel’s is the pick, 100% entertain it.  

17 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I tend to agree with this. While it's easy to point to Griffin's pre-injury stats (where he made the Pro Bowl and won Offensive ROY) and then post-injury stats, it kind of ignores the fact that most people recover from ACL injuries just fine. Even if you want to believe Griffin was one of the ones who didn't recover just fine (and frankly there's little evidence that he's not physically fine, he can still run really fast), a knee is only a small part of being a good QB. Since the pre-knee injury stats were only those 15 games, it's a far more likely explanation that the league simply caught up to him. Plenty of QBs look good in short bursts before reality sets in. Nick Foles is a guy that comes to mind. Has had a couple of crazy good runs as a QB, but was essentially just a good back-up. Maybe the best comparison for Griffin is Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick similarly looked crazy good for a brief period before it seems the league figured him out. He eventually got blackballed from the league for other reasons, but he was also 3-16 in his last two seasons as a starter and much poorer QBR figures than his heyday. The knee just seems like a well timed excuse.

To this day, I'm not sure I've seen a quarterback secure the edge quite like he did before his injury. I'm not commenting on his overall ability; it's just the way he navigated in a straight line was exceptional. His track experience truly stood out on the football field – almost as if he were launching from the starting blocks in a track meet.

Post injury, the edge was no longer his ally. 

Not a bad connection made here by Colin:

https://sports.yahoo.com/colin-cowherd-claims-bears-firing-212850287.html

Get Jay a national gig, networks are sleeping on a potential star. 
 

He’d be fantastic with Pat Mcafee

7 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

Who would have thought that going into next season,  the Eagles and Cowboys would be the dumpster fires and we are appearing as the stable Organization.   LOLOLOL

The NFL is remarkably unpredictable unless you have an elite Hall of Fame QB or Kyle Shanahan. If someone claims otherwise, their ego might be clouding their judgment. 
 

Hope Washington can become an outlier as well. Maybe Peters is that outlier!

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If lets say someone else offered you twice the money and twice the power to return to your home state -- might be tempting

10000%
 

This has consistently been my argument – money, power, and the length of the contract are significant factors. It's why I never discounted Dan in negotiations, and he demonstrated that repeatedly over the years.

My concern is, if a first-time coach is pursuing those aspects, it could be potentially risky. Even if he’s considering that it could be a red flag 🚩 as you like to put it. 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Marty on national TV basically said Dan was a bad guy and would never work for him.  Not that long after Dan offered him a big contract and full control and Marty changed his tune.  

Frequently, that's the dynamic of the business. In many instances, wielding this type of power often involves securing compensation for multiple family members as well.

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah my fear is he pulls on early years Dan move.  Marty you say you wouldn't work for me.  How about a pay you more than any other team would AND give you personnel control. 

 

Tepper seems so desperate to get Ben Johnson, I wonder if an everything and the kitchen sink lures him to go back to his home state.

 
If the coach is aiming for complete control, I'll decline that proposition anyway.

Opting for Washington over the Panthers, especially if absolute power is offered, will speak volumes about the individual. I assume the financial aspect will be comparable in both locations. Perhaps Tepper deviates from the norm and provides more than 5 years guaranteed.

44 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

This is spectacularly hilarious.  
 

I will look forward to Fudge Howell making the pro bowl with 1200yds rushing and a dozen tds.  In fact, there’s probably several future Hall of Fame coaches working on this masterful scheme as we speak!

To be clear, no interest in Howell. It’s January, deal with it lol

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Howell's running ability was more than functional. It was and is very good. He has the skill, speed and wiggle necessary to easily put up a plus 500yd campaign in a Daniel Jones kinda way.

Yes indeed and 8-12 rushing tds. 

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

What he lacks is the ability to finish a run not by getting every inch possible, but by protecting himself, and that is a death knell for QB rushing. He did not have a ton of carries this year but a big number ended in absolute car crashes. Most of these could have been avoided if Sam had the mindset to get on the ground himself, rather than run until he was taken down.

 He doesn’t seem to align with the expectations you have for him. Not every individual fits neatly into a specific mold. Despite concerns about potential injuries this year, he remained completely injury-free throughout the entire season.

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

I gave EB more flak than almost anybody here but the one thing I will always give him is that he recognized that he had to protect Howell from himself when it came to rushing attempts. It was not a crime to under-utilize Sam's running ability. If allowed to do it, he would not have made it 17 games.

Squeeze every ounce of talent out of all players, QBs included (especially while getting paid peanuts on a rookie deal—win at all costs). For him to reach his full potential his dual threat abilities needed to be featured heavily. Whats the point with a team dropping back a 6’0 foot QB and keeping him in the pocket if plenty 6’3 plus can do that—must be dynamic at his size.
 

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

If Howell ever gets it thru his head that he needs to protect himself in the open field, he can be a very good runner. Without that however, his rushing ability does not provide enough of an upside to warrant the risk of injuries or dumb fumbles.

I disagree; with this mindset, he most likely will not rise above mediocrity. He could likely serve as a backup and situational starter for over 10 years, earning $30 million or more in his career, which does come with financial benefits. Mediocrity can change the financial landscape for future generations, and I understand that. However, as a fan, I’m selfish and indifferent to those financial considerations; I want to support a team with an all-out approach.

13 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

“Exceptional runner”? 
 

You guys are really generous with your words lol. Guys, no NFL offense is going to have more than a few designed runs for Sam Howell. He is not that kind of a player. He has functional athleticism much like Trevor Lawrence. 

Watch his North Carolina videos; even with limited opportunities, he demonstrated the ability to execute similar runs in the NFL. EB and Ron wiffed big time not leaning heavily into his dual threat ability.