wit33

39 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Probably been said, but a trade for Aiyuk would mean this team is on the cusp of a SB run and Aiyuk would be the final piece to the puzzle.  Right now, this team needs to continue to build and when the time comes in the next few years, a move like this makes more sense

Does a playoff run count?

If the FO and coaches feel he’s a game changer, then go ahead and add a 26 year old WR. Not the biggest deal, but slight hesitation if it meant it would potentially isolate Jayden from connecting with teammates due to having a beat friend on the roster (not at all a big deal, but a thought). 
 

11 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Could BE mean base end?  Seems like a 4/5 technique as they work their way across the line from left to right, assuming the TE is on the left.  Later in the video, they pulled Kris Jenkins's name off the board from this spot, so that is where they had him sorted.  It definitely seems like some kind of IDL position.

 

This is interesting insight into their defensive scheme terminology.  Why no space for 0/1 technique?  What exactly is an 8tech to them?  Why a distinction between 8techs and DE?  How come the only distinction they make between linebackers are between LB and SAM?  If the last three defensive player slots are secondary positions, that's interesting too.  That means they either aren't distinguishing between inside and outside corners, or they aren't distinguishing between safeties.

 

I also noticed that they use the 7 point scale that Zierlein has been using for a while on NFL.com, and they graded Johnny between a 6.6-6.8.  The top tiers are for 6.9 and 7.5-7. It's interesting that 6.9 and 6.5 got their own big tiers, they must have had a lot of players graded in that range.  After that, it goes 6.4-6.2, then 6.1-a number I can't see.  There was definitely someone in the third from final position slot in the same grade tier as Johnny still on the board when they picked him.  My guess is that slot is for corner, and that the player was Cooper DeJean.  Looks like they had Jenkins graded as a 6.2.  And it looks like they had an offensive player in the second slot from the left in the 6.6-6.8 tier with Newton still on the board when they picked Sainristil that was no longer on the board when they picked Sinnott.  I can't see the offensive positions, but I am pretty sure the second slot is WR and that the player was Adonai Mitchell.  At the start of the draft they had a bunch of players in the 6.9 grade range of that second slot, so I'm almost positive that is their WR spot and that was MH Jr, Nabors, Odunze, etc.  The Colts traded up in front of us to pick Mitchell, which makes me think Ballard knew we liked him.  If that's the case, good. I was not a Mitchell fan.

 

When they picked Sinnott, there was only one name on the offensive side that was left in the 6.5 tier.  The position slot was the fifth from the right, so I'm guessing that was Sinnott and that position slot was TE.  At the start of the draft, that column had a 6.9 graded player in it that was almost certainly Bowers.  Then huge gap down to Sinnott.  Looks like he was their TE2 all along.  The four position slots to the right of TE are probably some kind of OL organization.

 

They only had one name on the entire board in the 7.5-7.0 tier when they picked Jayden Daniels, and it was in that final offensive slot on the right.  There are so many names in that column, that the only position that makes sense to me for that column is OT.  So it looks like their highest graded player in the class was an OT?  Moreover there looks to be two names in that column in the 6.9 tier, which is the same tier as Bowers, Odunze, Harrison Jr, and Nabors.  I have a hard time accepting that they had an OT as the highest graded non-QB in the draft.  Must have been Alt, and if that's the case, that's a little worrisome to me.  So is grading Latham and Fashanu the same as the elite skill players of the class.  If I'm right that the far right column is OT, then I would assume the one to the left of it is OG.  If so, they had a higher ranked guard on the board when they picked Coleman.  I'm guessing that was Cooper Beebe, and I think that was a pretty clear mistake to pick Coleman over him.

 

The only defensive player in the 6.9 tier was a defensive end.  I would love to know who that DE was.  For me it would have been Verse, but it could have been Turner or Latu.

 

It looks like they had a DE and an LB slightly higher graded than Sinnott still on the board when they picked him.  Their names were placed a little higher in the 6.5 tier.  The DE seems like it would either be Jonah Elliss.  I would bet that the LBer was Peyton Wilson or Junior Colson.  They kept talking about Michigan guys, which would suggest Colson.  But it would make a lot of sense to grade Wilson that high and still pass on him for Sinnott.  Both of the names were still on the board when they picked Coleman at 67, so that rules out Marshawn Kneeland and Chris Braswell as the DE.  They were their highest graded players left in the class by 67, and the only ones with fringe first round caliber grades.

 

So they talk about having a gold "commander" tag on some of their favorite players.  If TE is the position fifth from the right on the offensive side, and Sinnott is the name in that column with the gold tag, then it looks like they had gold tags on what I assume to be a center, and a tackle in the 6.2-6.4 tier.  They also had one on a WR in the 6.1-6.0 tier, and I'm guessing that was Luke.  There was someone in the fourth column from the right in the 6.4-6.2 tier with the tag as well, but I can't figure out what that position group is.  My best guess is that it is an OT/OG catchall for tweeners.  They also had a gold tag on a guy in the 5.9 tier of the third column, which is probably RB.  That would likely put the offensive board columns from left to right as: QB, WR, RB, TE, OG/OT, OC, OG, OT.  You can see one player in the 6.6-6.8 tier of the first column when they picked Jayden.  That seems like a pretty low grade to have on Jayden.  And no other names until one guy in the 6.4-6.2 tier?  That would be low on either McCarthy or Maye.  And then Penix and Nix weren't even on their board?  That doesn't seem right either.  I guess it could be that they either didn't put Jayden on the board or had already taken him off before they made the call to him, and that McCarthy and Maye are the 6.8-6.2 tier and 6.4-6.2 tier players.  But again, they were way too low on one of them, and why wouldn't Nix and Penix be on their board?  They invited Penix to Top Golf, they clearly liked him enough to put him on a draft board somewhere.  And if the third column is RB, where are all of the names?  There were 18 drafted, but there are barely any names in that column.

This was one of the more enjoyable reads for me in a while. Thank you for sharing. Now, if we can find someone as nutty and knowledgeable as you to compare, challenge, and uncover even more, that would be fantastic.

Thanks again!

10 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

He probably wouldn't have been with us though, we've had a way of getting nothing out of good players and something out of great players.

Take trent Williams for example, he was a very good player for us but only got a second team all pro once.

We trade him to a good team and bam he's a perennial first team all pro and sure fire first ballot hall of famer.

Same exact thing happened with champ Bailey.

Trent and Champ would have been Hall of Famers here—1 of 1 type dudes.

I get the point and agree the environment in Washington hasn’t been conducive to players being their best. I just believe those dudes are bad examples or outliers. Trent was severely underrated by the fan base, or at least around here, and I wasn’t as locked in when Champ was around.

The complete truth is that when you’re playing on winning football teams, more accolades will come your way.

On 5/31/2024 at 2:53 PM, mistertim said:

 

How is running for 815 yards struggling to embrace his abilities? RG3 ran a ton his rookie year. And got hurt running. So he wanted to be a better pocket passer (which was good), but IMO he didn't have all of the requisite qualities as far as study habits, etc. in order to actually do that.

Based on memory, he seemed resistant to the running QB label and fought against the offensive strategy that made him highly successful in his first year, which relied heavily on his running ability. There were reports of him refusing to run QB-designed plays, insisting he could dominate from the pocket. He often expressed a desire to emulate quarterbacks who played a more traditional, pocket-passing style.

He was never going to be Tom Brady from the pocket, but it seemed he believed he was headed in that direction.
 

It’s essential to protect and utilize his superpowers.
 

On 5/31/2024 at 2:53 PM, mistertim said:

 

And you've been saying this "trailblazer" thing for a long time about running QBs in general and you seem to live in some alternate reality where the league is inexorably headed in that direction. And every year we see a new flash in the pan running QB come along and either get hurt or do nothing. And every year it's still the elite passers who win championships, not the runners.

Hoping we have a trailblazer at QB who’s tall enough to see over the pocket, fast enough to make an 80-yard touchdown run, and mechanically sound enough to provide rhythm as a passer.

Trailblazer—fingers crossed!

On 5/31/2024 at 2:53 PM, mistertim said:

 

And who said Tom Brady? Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, and Allen are all pocket passers first, but can pick up yards with their legs if need be.

Yes, every great pocket/mobile QB who has ever played can pick up yards with their legs.

On 5/31/2024 at 2:53 PM, mistertim said:

 

I really hope Daniels uses his running ability tactically vs. as a crutch. Because with his frame he's only going to be able to take so much abuse from hits.

I want Daniel to dominate football games week in and week out and become elite. I want him to run when it’s there and pass when it’s there, fully expressing his talents. I want the defense to fear each snap, never knowing what the next play will be.

I have zero interest in him playing the game like Brady or Mahomes or anyone else. Sure, he can be influenced by them, but he should dominate in his own way, bound by no constraints or mental models of what others think a QB should be.

I believe we want the same thing; I just don’t think your way provides a pathway to becoming an all-time great or a Hall of Famer or at the very least, it’s less likely. An original!

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He looks good right now.  
 

Thats better than looking bad.

 

We won’t know for several years how truly good he can be consistently.

 

However I’ll take “looks good now” over “sure it doesn’t look good but there’s nothing to worry about.”

 

It’s a process.  And growth isn’t necessarily always linear.  

Several years? Eeek. Too long for me. For most part, great players shine right away relative to their position and situations. 

20 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

RG3 was smart in wanting to develop into more of a pocket passer vs a runner, especially after almost getting his leg snapped off while running.. Elite passers have long careers and win championships; elite runners get some oohs and ahhs and then either get injured or flame out on their own.

In my opinion, although I don't know the dude personally, it seems like he struggled to embrace his unique abilities, often fighting against them to fit the traditional mold of what some believe a quarterback should be. It's important to strive for improvement and not rely solely on one strength, but also not to lose sight of what makes you great.

I'm pleased that Jayden Daniels looks up to quarterbacks who played the game similarly to him and possessed similar abilities, while also appreciating pocket passers and wanting to learn from them. Daniels appears to embrace being called a running QB or dual-threat guy and actually leans into it, even expressing his desire to break all the QB rushing records. Be yourself, be bold.
 

He should never strive to be Tom Brady in the pocket. Instead, he should view the game through his own perspective, align it with his unique skills and abilities, and then attack the opponent accordingly.

20 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

RG3's problem was his diva attitude and that he simply didn't seem to have the requisite study habits or inherent drive to truly mold himself into an upper echelon passer.

He was never going to be a pocket passer, and that was a mistake on his part, in my opinion. 
 

Trailblazer

28 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

This is exactly why they drafted him. Sure, there are no guarantees. He could get hurt.  But after watching him and listening to him, I wanted him more than any other QB in the draft. I think most fans made the RG3 comparison because of his perceived fragility.

 

I compared him to RG3 in multiple ways. I think Jayden has a better mindset and is more dedicated to his craft. I think overall he is more mentally flexible. I think he is a better passer then RG3. AND unlike RG3 he enjoys watching tape and embraces game preparation. 

 

You have to take risks with this type of talent.  

He appears to have a great sense of self, and I won’t be surprised if we learn more about him that he largely doesn’t care how the outside world thinks the QB position should be played. RG3 seemed consumed with resisting the running QB label, almost to his detriment, due to wanting to fit into the mold of what others feel a QB should be.
 

Daniels has made it a point to mention wanting to be like guys who played like him in the past while also striving to be great as a pocket passer. I believe he’s okay with either a 1,000-yard rushing season or a 500-yard rushing season; it all depends on how the defenses play him during the course of a season. 
 

Potential trailblazer. 

43 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Mac Jones also looked good that first regular season games too....but he eventually was figured out,  never adjusted, and the floor fell out at that point.    Jayden has to keep changing and adapting his game once NFL defenses catch on.   I hope he can do that.  

Imagine if Mac Jones also ran a 4.3 40 time 

35 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I like where your head is at, but I'm going to wait until he takes at least 4 or 5 snaps in a regular season game before I decide what his floor/ceiling will be.

I’ll be waiting for your breakdown after snap 5. lol

No doubt, the reasonable thing is to wait until it smacks you in the face, but at times speculating and projecting is fun for me as a fan. 
 

There are no guarantees, but barring injury, I don’t see how this guy won’t be an impact player from day one. He will definitely be the first player circled, underlined, and highlighted by opponents since maybe DeSean Jackson (another soul snatcher).

4.3 speed, accurate, clean throwing motion and footwork, and a dedicated student.

The floor year one = your favorite QB, ranked 8-25.

5 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Employee publicly praises his bosses; alert the press!  

 

I know it's not something previous players would do, but still... gotta look at the incentive structure here, too.

Residue. 
 

Love it! I’ll take all the confirmation things are changing in the coming months. 

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

There is no ride. The actual ride starts when games start. Until then it's mostly fluff.

You’re being too soft, holdout until he wins a SB. 

Nowadays, offensive coordinators prioritize tailoring their strategies to better support their young quarterbacks, to the extent that it's almost an expectation for the coach to do so. Just imagine suggesting this trend a decade or two ago.

If Jayden Daniels encounters difficulties in his rookie season, it's less probable he'll become a star in the league. However, the beauty of an elite dual-threat quarterback lies in their ability to struggle as a passer initially while still making a significant impact on the game, rivaling or even surpassing some of your favorite QBs ranked between 8th and 25th in the league, all while continuing to learn.

Conversations surrounding the quarterback position have shifted over the years, moving away from merely discussing statistics and a bit more towards assessing impact—a term rife with subjectivity but crucial for meaningful dialogue.I do value some stats at the QB spot such as, TD passes, that’s often pretty reliable. 

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

RG3 wasn't known as a dude who loved to study.  Kyler Murray ditto.    As to running QBs. 

 

Daniels' work ethic comes off in that upper tier strata.   Doesn't of course guarantee success but it should increase the odds. 
 

He's probably one of the first, if not the very first, to fully commit to being an elite runner while also mastering throwing from the pocket. Those who came before him often seemed to struggle against the stigma of being labeled a running QB. I get it; it's been a tough battle against the traditional perceptions of what a QB should be. But he's different. He seems like a guy dead set on shaking up the league his own way, without giving a damn about what others think. That's just my gut feeling about him.

If a season hands him a thousand-yard rushing season, he'll take it. If it's 500 yards, he'll take that too. He's out there balling to win and compete, plain and simple. Some might say "competing" is a broad term, but spend some time around young athletes, and you'll quickly spot the real competitors from the rest.

Just my feel early as I get to know him. 

I used to have high hopes for RG3, thinking he might be football's version of Michael Jordan. Yet, it seemed he leaned too heavily on his natural athleticism and didn't fully commit to honing his craft. But now, with Jayden Daniels, there's a new excitement. He's got that freak athleticism, but what appears to set him apart is his dedication to mastering the game. It's rare to see a dual-threat QB like him prioritize both physical prowess and the mental aspect of the game. While many elite dual-threat quarterbacks before him were known for their physicality and intense workout regimens, Daniels seems to embrace the importance of fundamentals and game processing. It's refreshing that he doesn't solely rely on his physical gifts; he's invested in the process, striving for greatness day in and day out. 
 

It wouldn't be surprising if he harbors insecurities about his physical stature, which could have led him to prioritize other aspects of his game from an early age. But who knows for sure? It's all just speculation, but it's fun to think about nonetheless.

Comparisons are being drawn to Anthony Edwards and Michael Jordan, not just because of his physical abilities, but more importantly, because of his competitive drive and relentless work ethic. Dare I say, I see some similarities between Ant Man and Daniels.
 

Yup, not one snap and he’s being put in same paragraph as Michael Jordan. lol 

Its May, be easy on me. 

As a fan, I selfishly prefer a QB whose focus is solely on success on the field, without too many distractions from hobbies or other interests. While this might not be the healthiest approach for the individual, it can allow them to channel all their energy, even tapping into the darker side of motivation, especially in the early stages of their career when they're striving to accumulate thousands of hours of experience.

Early signs suggest that Daniels doesn't have many interests beyond football, though this is purely speculative as I'm still getting to know him.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but as I get older and spend more years as a fan, it’s clear that inaccurate quarterbacks often struggle to succeed. I’m willing to overlook inaccuracy if there's great running ability, but even that model seems to have a ceiling. I wouldn’t be surprised to see quarterbacks like Brock Purdy, who may not have elite tools, compete with those who do.
 

A who cares to most thought:

I still believe that as the NFL continues to evolve towards a more positionless game in open space, the QB position will become increasingly athletic. Similarly, the point guard position in basketball once featured players like Scott Skiles as a ball-dominant PG on a Shaq team, but it has since shifted towards giving the ball to the best athletes on the court, with the traditional PG role almost eliminated. There are still players like Mike Conley (Brock Purdy), who are tasked with getting the ball to the real QB, such as Anthony Edwards, within 4-8 seconds of the shot clock.

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

I feel like his leadership style is just to out work everyone in the building and see who wants to come with him. I hope thats correct im sure there is a lot of projecting of my own going into me thinking that. But i hope thats correct. 
 

Young players grow over time, whether they're introverted or extroverted. It's usually after gaining some experience and maybe even becoming parents that they truly step up as vocal leaders. At this stage, it's more about putting in the work rather than emphasizing leadership. After all, which veteran would really take a rookie's enthusiastic speeches seriously? 

The weight factor is an interesting one and one that has lost a lot of value in the NBA in recent seasons. I always like to compare both and feel that the NBA is typically about ten years ahead of the NFL in most areas. I haven’t taken the time to do extensive research on weight related to injuries at any position, and it would require deciphering which injuries are actually weight related.

Walter Payton weighed 203 pounds.

Jerome Bettis 251 pounds.

Both were ironmen at the running back position.

No argument from me that injuries are a concern and part of his growth must include avoiding hits. 

Just now, Jumbo said:

I've posted enough about my take on Ron the HC from day one and throughout his devolution, football wise, from poor to atrocious during his tenure.

 

But regarding the roster aspect specifically, I'm thinking of the (generalized) camps most regs here fell into on that matter as of his last year.

 

One, a medium sized group that includes me, thought less than half the roster were average or better NFL players, and that we had maybe three to five "upper tier" players total on both sides of the ball with arguably zero "elite" players. Payne, Terry, or Allen were close to elite, but not quite there.

 

Then there was a fairly sizeable group who thought the roster wasn't that bad though def needed serious improvement. 

 

And there were a few who thought the roster had enough talent on it that coaching changes and a new QB would do a lot and that the roster didn't need to actually be "blown up."

 

I think the moves being made echo that "group one" position. The roster was that bad, coaching aside.

 

No doubt competent coaching will help a few become worth keeping, but it needed to be blown up.

 

Love that they aggressively did just that, starting in free agency, and we will see a fair number of even more signings before they're done.

 

 

I was all in on the defense coming into last year; it's unreal how that unit performed. The regression to being among the league's worst is wild. Completely wrong on my part.

Group one definitely won out, no doubt. Most rosters turn over a great deal depending on the year and the team's situation, but it's still quite telling that Washington is among the league leaders in roster turnover at this point in the offseason.
 

It's quite telling that most of the standout players were from the regime before Ron took over. I expect new names to emerge as cornerstone players for Washington as soon as next year. While all the roster turnover is interesting, it's crucial to identify not only great and elite players league-wide but also those within the team’s own ranks.

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

 

That doesn't seem like it'd be a great first impression especially considering her past.

I agree. 

Allowing punters and kickers to wear single-digit numbers is one of the more lucrative opportunities for those players. If I were running a team, I'd reserve single-digit numbers for prime time positions and assign punters and kickers numbers in the 30s or 40s instead (not sure what the number rules are for those dudes though lol). 
 

If I were Daniel's mom, I'd be all over social media calling out the Way family.

On 5/4/2024 at 9:42 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Some one find the order date 🕵️‍♂️

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Fields start and Tomlin has his first losing. If Russ is done, Steelers won’t be winning if they have to rely on Fields.

 

If Russ is cooked, Steelers will be looking for a new qb in 2025 and likely under a new coach.

You might be onto something there. I'm not saying Fields is a guaranteed success, but he does offer them a chance to adopt an elite ground-and-pound style of play.

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Wait, how come whenever I ask you to give me specific numbers for what makes a college QB "dual threat" (for example in the Daniels vs Maye debate) you ignore me but I have to answer you when you ask the inverse?

All QBs these days, except for Goff, are dual threats—props to him for bucking the trend and excelling as a pure pocket passer. Elite dual-threat QBs come in all shapes, sizes, and speeds, just like RBs and WRs. Howell's got some serious rushing skills, running a 4.8 or 4.9. But let's be real, a QB with a 4.3 is a freak athlete at that position.

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think there's a certain number of yards, just think of athletic QBs who can use their legs well but who's primary weapon is their arm. Mahomes, Allen, Dak, Love, Herbert, etc. Those guys can all use their legs and get yards when they have green grass in front of them, but their primary weapon is their passing ability.

Comparing those guys to Daniels and trying to confine him to a specific mold is just not fair. None of them, except for Allen (who's a bit out of place in this discussion), have ever rushed for 400 yards. Do we really want Daniels to mirror Prescott, Herbert, and Love, who each barely hit 200 rushing yards in entire seasons?

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

There's only one successful QB who's primary weapon is his legs and that's Lamar. But as I said, he actually sucks in the postseason when teams have more time to game plan for him and can mitigate his running ability. Take away his ability to run and he's only a mediocre QB.

Let's look at Love, Herbert, and Dak's playoff performances. Herbert has a subpar winning record, while Love hovers around .500 for their careers. Just imagine the criticism Jackson would face if he didn't maintain a 70% winning record during the regular season. It's a bit ironic, isn't it?

Playoffs are difficult, ask Rodgers, the best QB I’ve seen in 20 plus years watching. 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

So yeah I'd bet that Peters and Quinn prefer that Daniels be like those former guys who are primarily passers first, scramblers second. For injury reasons and because running QBs don't win **** in the postseason if their legs are mitigated. Neither Peters or Quinn are stupid. They knows it's a passing league and that's how you win long term. Even in his post day 1 presser, Peters only mentioned Jayden's running ability AFTER he talked about his passing abilities, etc.

Daniels isn't really in the same category as those other quarterbacks you mentioned. He doesn’t at all appear to identify with the dudes you’re listing. He seems focused on becoming an elite passer while also setting his sights on breaking rushing records held by the likes of Vick, Newton, Jackson, Fields, and Cunningham. He's even voiced his ambition to surpass their achievements on the ground. Daniel’s isn’t the number two overall pick if he wasn’t an elite runner. 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I know you really really want running QBs to become a trend, and you've said "it's happening" for years now, but it's just not the case.

Peters: “Take the souls of a defense”

Daniels: ”Turn on the Florida tape”

The QB position continues to evolve, with athleticism becoming increasingly crucial. This trend has been noticeable over the past 15 seasons, and it's a topic I've been discussing for over a decade. While there will always be varying degrees of athleticism and approaches, the baseline expectation for QBs to create, extend plays, and gain rushing yards has been steadily rising.

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Bet you dollars to donuts that Peters and Quinn want Daniels to be primarily a pocket passer and use his legs when necessary but NOT as a primary weapon like actual running QBs. They know perfectly well that passing wins in the NFL and that if Daniels runs as his main weapon it would probably be, at most, half a season before he's in the hospital.

How would you describe someone as "primarily a pocket passer?

Rushing and pass attempts? Yards?
 

Injuries no doubt are a concern, no argument from me.