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wit33

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Posts posted by wit33

  1.  

     

     

    1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

    This is the kind of stuff that impresses me about Maye. His willingness to get hit in in the pocket while still delivering a beautiful ball. This was a cheap **** by the way imo. I saw some of this stuff from Daniels tape as well. But Daniels would be far more likely to take off and run in this position than Maye is.

     

    Edit: Look how he steps up into the pocket and delivers the ball with velocity and accuracy while throwing from an awkward angle and getting drilled in the legs. 

     

    NOBXGN.gif

     

    Curious about a scout's analysis: remarkable pocket movement, yet it seems Mayes stuck to his initial read, which fortunately resulted in a beautiful play as the wide receiver found open space.

     

    Is there more value in pocket manipulation with multiple reads, or does that receive different credit?

     

    Not coming at this sideways, intrigued to learn more if anyone has any scouting background. 

     

    14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    don't know.  I listened to Sheehan's podcast where he referenced it so I didn''t listen to his actual interview.

     

    It's not the first time I've read or heard something that he's on the quiet side.  But let me guess its all BS, and he's an extrovert?


    Listening in, it sounded like a bunch of cliché answers, with the coach avoiding anything negative. While he does come off as quite shy and introverted, as you somewhat pointed out, there's a noticeable surge of energy and joy when he's on the field.
     

    On a side note, but relevant to leadership through play: I appreciate elite dual-threat ability for its unique capacity to capture momentum and energy in games via low-risk, high-reward actions such as running the football to gain yards.

    • Like 2
  2. Feeling perplexed; while following this thread, there appears to be similar, if not slightly more, support for Maye compared to Daniel's, yet the tone from some suggests otherwise.
     

    The seasoned individuals here seem to lean towards Maye. My assumption is that supporters for Daniels are 20 years younger or so than those for Maye lol 😂

     

    For scorekeeping purposes, I qualify as an old head these days. lol

    • Like 3
  3. Imagine supporting a family as a slide coach is fantastic and increasingly essential, especially with the growing trend of quarterbacks relying on backyard football skills, agility and running. 
     

    Disappointed that Jayden Daniels lacks a baseball history for sliding and exploring unique arm angles. I appreciate the concept of having an elite dual-threat player who can both navigate the field effectively (being taller) and maintain a smooth delivery. Typically, elite dual-threat athletes are smaller and struggle with inconsistent throwing motions, hindering their ability to establish early rhythm in an offense with their arms.

    • Like 2
  4. 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

    Short RG3. Name a dual threat QB who didn't miss significant time over their career.

     

     

    Injuries are part of the game. In the same draft class, we witnessed Andrew Luck retiring before RG3. 
     

    I'm not suggesting that dual-threat QBs aren't more susceptible to missing playing time, but it's uncommon for their careers to be abruptly shortened by injuries. 
     

    On the flip side, we could witness quarterbacks usually considered safer from an injury standpoint diminishing due to running more. There's an expectation for all quarterbacks to be able to create, extend, and scramble for yards when necessary. The baseline for running expectations set by franchises is on the rise.

     

    1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

     

     

     

    Let's look at Cam Newton. Only really had a 7 year career and he was one of the biggest guys on the field.

     

    Newton completed 11 seasons in the NFL.

     

    In his 10th season with the Patriots, his  running ability remained at an elite level.
     

    Unfortunately, his throwing power was significantly affected when his AC joint on his throwing shoulder got injured while attempting a tackle.


    His legs remained elite to the end. 

     

    1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

     

    Hurts, who you mentioned annoyingly, has been hurt for a year and a half.

     

    You are too easily annoyed my man. 
     

    Most QBs are injured. Tough sport. 

     

    1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

     

    Lamar just had his first full season and we saw what happened when he couldn't run.

     

    Are you saying he was injured and that’s why he couldn’t run? I don’t think that’s what you mean, but just checking. 

     

    1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

     

    It's entirely possible that Daniels is the first dual threat QB to have a healthy career. He could also be like a Randal Cunningham and become an incredible pocket passer when he can't run any more.

     

    I concur that such a scenario seems improbable.

     

    Personally, I'm content with an 8-year run, given it yields a 60-70% win percentage, chances for deep playoff runs, and perhaps a fortunate journey to the championship game.

     

    If there are signs of decline after the second contract, then start exploring other options. The notion of playing a 15-20-year game with a QB is somewhat fantastical; it does happen, but typically only for Hall of Fame quarterbacks (not attaching this to you by any means). If that's the argument, then yes, I strongly lean towards Drake Maye over Daniels. 100% Maye is more likely to start for a franchise in years 13-20 than Danies. 
     

    I appreciate having a player's superpower with a high likelihood of impacting games at a high level, especially early in their rookie contract. Daniel’s projects to impact the teams run game at an elite level, elevating his RBs and Oline day 1 upon his arrival. 

     

    1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

     

    But that is ceiling talk, which I think is sky high for all 3, but floor means as bad as it gets and a frail built QB who leaves the pocket and doesnt slide has a lower floor. 


    I get this, but I like probabilities of the Washington QB have a physical advantage over the pool of mediocre QBs that represent 70% of starters and over the great to elite guys Washington will play in the playoffs. Relying on Drake Maye to become a better QB mentally than the dudes in the league seems like a lower probability. 
     

    Take Jalen Hurts, for instance. While he may not excel in traditional pocket QB skills, he held his own against Mahomes in the Super Bowl, with many believing he outplayed Mahomes. His impact came significantly from his running ability, something Mahomes can't quite match in the same way.

     

    While I generally lean towards quarterback "freaks," I'm perfectly fine if they end up with Maye. The discussion has shifted from, and at least around here, there's no debate about the need for a QB who can create and extend – Maye can certainly do that.

     

    • Like 1
    • Thumb up 1
  5. 5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

    This is what floor means. The possibility of a lot of missed time and a very short career, is very high for a QB with his build that leaves the pocket so quickly.


    Can you provide examples of elite dual-threat individuals with notably brief careers?

     

    Additionally, how do you define a "very short" career in your perspective? 
     

    Truly interested to hear your thoughts, especially when your other team has an elite dual threat guy playing on a second contract. 

  6. 4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    I don't want ideally a QB with a low ceiling.  As for Nix he might have one of the highest floors but I don't feel as confident of that as I did pre-Senior Bowl.  Surprised he had a "meh" Senior Bowl.     Senior Bowl aside, I do think he can have a long career in the NFL but I doubt its as a top 15 type QB.  I am guessing 3rd tier type.

     

    If they are dropping down, the only one I'd go for is McCarthy but considering McCarthy has top 10 hype i don't see how this team can drop down and be confident that he would be there waiting for them considering all the other QB needy teams.

     

    I get a bit feisty on this point because most of these regimes inherited or got a QB without serious pedigree.  Spurrier got Ramsey, 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.   Gibbs with Campbell, -- 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.    Haskins who the teams own scouts rated as a third rounder, taken in the mid first. My other point on that if you are stuck back with third-forth tier QBs, you aren't becoming a serious contender, you are stuck at the same place you've been for the last 30 plus years.  

     

    RG3 was the exception.  And it flamed out but for one season it was electric.   This time we don't even have to trade up.  We are right there.  Shoot high take Maye or if not Daniels is fine.  This is a good draft for QBs -- yes all the fans don't agree on that but they don't ever agree on that subject so if we wait for fan agreement here or on twitter we might have wait until 2064 to get that QB high.  Jordan Reid, ex-college QB, also said its a good draft for QBs the other day on Keim's podcast.  It's the conventional wisdom with the scouting community.

     

    For me going for the next Haskins, Campbell, Ramsey type of that tier pedigree would feel nauseating. 

     

    Maye has very high upside.  So does Daniels.  Daniels IMO has further to go in his development and am worried about his durability so hence I favor Maye.  But both dudes would be #1 in other drafts.  And that's not just me saying it.  Personnel-scouts have said the same in quotes that I've put here especially as to Maye. 


    Ignoring injuries, do you lean towards Daniels over Maye?
     

     

    6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    I think what Daniels has similar to RG3 in when flushed out of the pocket, they take off a lot versus throwing off platform.  Am guessing RG3 is slightly faster.  Daniels more zig and zag to his running style.  RG3 with the stronger arm.   

     

    Absolutely hate Daniels wasnt a former baseball player, off platform throws and baseball slides are below average for him. Admire his consistent throwing motion and am hopeful he measures close to or at 6'4. Love the concept of having an elite dual-threat player who can excel at checking down without being prone to batted balls and similar issues.

  7. 15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

    I suspect if any talking head on the net says that Daniels is their top QB, or he's ahead of Maye or there are concerns about Maye -- its landing on this thread.

     

    We need to hire some equal time Maye person here.  On occasion, i am in the mood to do it, but i got bored after doing it for a bit. :ols:
     

     

     

     

    If Daniel runs as fast or faster than you did at your peak in the 40-yard dash, are you still part of the Maye camp? For those unfamiliar, @Skinsinparadise used to run a 4.4 40-yard dash. 

    • Haha 1
  8. 23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    OK.  And apparently this FO likes Lockett.   Jay admitted this in a recent podcast.  But not sure how they had them tiered.

     

     

    OK, yeah that's pretty how I look at it.  Don't jump down a tier but if you have multiple targets close, trade down.

     

     

    Daniels could work.  But he's thin and looks breakable.  

     

    I prefer Maye for multiple reasons.  And the dude is mobile too -- not to the extent of Daniels but he's more in that Daniel Jones-Josh Allen category of mobility.


    I'm kinda intrigued by the whole weight and injuries thing in the NFL, especially for quarterbacks. People say being heavier makes you less prone to injuries, right? Gonna dig into that for fun. Noticed the dude's size, but not sure how much it really matters – not that I'm saying it's the right way to look at it. Just my two cents.

     

    19 hours ago, mistertim said:

     

    This is where @wit33and I have had debates before. He seems to lump all QBs who have the ability to run into one category: "dual threat QB". But I have two categories: "dual threat QB" and "running QB"

     

    A dual threat QB is a guy who's first weapon is his arm, but who has the ability to extend plays and make you pay with his legs if you let him or try to take away the passing game. That's guys like Mahomes, Dak, Wilson, Tua, Stroud, Rodgers in his prime, and to a certain extent Burrow.

     

    Haha, never claimed Mahomes, Tua, Stroud, Rodgers in our debates. If you toss them into the dual-threat QB mix, it feels like 80-90% of QBs should be on that list. They're not exactly running the show in the ground game or imparting it heavily. The league's gotten more athletic at QB, ditching those old-school ideas—the baseline is John Elway athleticism now 😳. Younger Wilson, back when he was crushing it in multiple SBs, now that was an elite dual-threat dude – and that was like 15 years ago!

     

    19 hours ago, mistertim said:

     

    A running QB is a guy who's first weapon is his legs and second is his arm. These QBs are usually only mediocre passers and tend to struggle when a defense schemes to take away or limit their running ability. That's guys like Lamar, Cam, RG3, and now Richardson. Obviously with Richardson we have next to no sample size, but we saw with the other three guys that without the threat of their legs, their passing didn't really scare anyone.

     

    You seem a bit closed-minded on this, not catching the ongoing shift in the NFL. The basic athleticism at QB is on the upswing – maybe not at the extreme elite level, but the baseline is definitely climbing.
     

    It’s not to say your precious ideas of what makes a great QB don’t remain in many ways, but there’s different paths to get there.

     

    In the 80s it was believed a shooting guard/wing player  couldn’t be the best player on an NBA championship team. In the 2000s shooting too many threes and not playing inside out was considered bad basketball. I love using the NBA because it always seems 10-15 years ahead of the NFL. Another example for the fun of it is the middle of the field becoming more position less to counter the high octane passing offenses, much like the NBA became position less 15 or so years ago. 

     

    19 hours ago, mistertim said:

     

    The big hope for running QBs is that they actually evolve into dual threat QBs, but it rarely happens. Allen was closer to a running QB at first but then did manage to evolve. He's really the only one though. Wilson maybe as well.

     

    So IMO his whole "dual threat QBs drafted in round 1 rarely bust and have the highest floors" argument is very disingenuous, because while dual threat QBs do fit that narrative, the jury is still very much out on running QBs. Lamar isn't a bust, neither was Cam (though I think they're both a bit overrated), RG3 was a bust. Richardson we won't know for another year or two.

     

    My bad if it came off as disingenuous; never tossed those guys into the dual-threat QB mix. Usually, I'm talking about Jackson, younger Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick, Tebow, Allen, Hurts, Murray, RG3, etc., as the elite dual-threat crew.

     

    In my observation, QBs with elite dual-threat skills drafted in rounds 1 or 2 tend to bust less than those less athletically gifted. While I'm up for a chat about the ceiling, it seems the floor is higher for early-drafted athletic QBs. I reckon the NFL might have this wrong, but getting rid of the old guard takes time. Many teams still have dinosaurs running the show – not denying there's truth in their approach, but they're often limited by their old-school thinking.
     

    No model's flawless in the NFL, but the floor looks solid today. I'll admit, the elite dual-threat advantage has dwindled compared to 15 years ago with the whole league getting more athletic at QB.

     

    It's wild – if you can't create, extend, and take off, your draft stock seems to take a hit in today's analysis! Imagine saying that 20- 25 years ago. 

     

     

    8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

    I don't really question Daniels's intangibles either. My issue with him is his age diluting his upside and production and the fact that his passing is reliant on his running ability. Those type of QBs do not sustain and mobility/athleticism drops off quick. Look at Lamar Jackson. He's 27 and already not as fast as he once was(he's still super fast). And Jackson came into the league at 21, not 23 like JD will be(he'll actually turn 24 his rookie year).

     

    Just a heads up: Lamar was the NFL MVP at 27.

    The age factor seems a bit weak; not sure it holds much water with this logic.

     

    I'm hooked on Daniels' height and smooth throwing mechanics – a bit of an anomaly among elite dual-threat guys in the past two decades.

    Initially pegged him as a mid-4.5 40-yard dash guy, but there are reports he might be sub-4.4. If that's the case – a definite 100000% all-in on that floor and upside.

     

    8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

     

    And then of course there is the one read and run style of offense, the body type/durability issues...yikes. Now if we were picking 3rd he'd still be absolutely worth taking a shot and I'd be thrilled with the upside, but taking him over Maye, who is also extremely high ceiling without having anywhere near as low a floor, just isn't logical to me.

     

    Daniels brings an elite run game floor that directly affects time of possession, often reduces turnovers, keeps your defense and the opposing team's offense off the field, and holds the potential for a dynamic red zone offense.
     

    Just to be clear, I'm generally inclined toward athletic freaks at any position, including QB. However, I'm not counting Caleb out; getting him would be fantastic. Currently leaning towards Drake Maye at the 3rd position on my list due to not knowing his potential superpower entering the league. Not suggesting his arm talent won't develop, but many powerful arms are active in the league and on sitting the bench.

     

    I'm not firmly taking a stance on him right now, and it probably won't change during this process. If Washington drafts him, I'll be hoping he becomes a savant and studies the game maniacally for his arm talent to flourish and becomes a wizard at reading the field. With Caleb and Daniels, there's no hoping needed – even as a casual fan, I'm confident they'll bring instant impact and known variables to a game full of chaos.

    • Thumb up 1
  9. 3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

    Nah, Riddick is as good and bad as anyone else (well, maybe as bad). You can pull up anyone's cv on QB's and they ALL SUCK. Nobody hits on the regular at QB projection, and if they say they do, they're lying (or simply conveniently forget all their misses). 

     

    I suck at projecting future success, like nearly everyone out there, but like a lot of us (I think), I pretend I have a skill at projecting busts, but honestly, I'm not sold that's a skill when more than half of these guys either suck or disappoint anyway. 


    On TV, you're not afforded the luxury of being 60-40 or presenting multiple "ifs" and "buts." Instead, you're compelled to make assertive statements and stick to them. In person, Riddick would likely emphasize that nobody is a guaranteed success, highlighting the uncertainties of work ethic and adaptation to the NFL lifestyle. However, such nuanced perspectives might not resonate as effectively on television. 

  10. 2 hours ago, Conn said:


    Skip has to pretend to have a half-formed, controversial opinion on every sport under the sun, and pay particular attention to LeBron and the NBA because that’s his brand. Not one of his opinions is well-educated or vetted by a research staff behind the scenes. He’s a hot take specialist, his entire job is to cause clicks on social media. Hate clicks work fine for that. He’s a controversy engine fueled by online engagement. 

     

    I highly doubt he watches hardly any NFL games except the high profile night games and highlights. He’s a cowboys fan who throws his Dak jersey in his kitchen garbage can three times every season in a big show, filmed on a cell phone by his wife or whatever. He’s not an analyst and doesn’t watch film. Doesn’t talk to people in the game. 
     

    Skip revealing he doesn’t know who this highly regarded defensive assistant on his own team is, is both not surprising and hilariously revealing. 


    Skip is everything you said, but dude is a sports nut and extremely well researched—at least he was when I used to watch him and Stephen A together consistently for a few years. 

    • Like 1
  11.  

     

    2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

     

     

    It's frustrating how Samuel was underutilized this past season. I can't decide what's more disappointing – the limited use of Howell as a runner or the failure to involve Samuel more dynamically, whether in motion, in the backfield, or through direct snaps. There's so much potential to deploy him in various roles! Should’ve wore the dude out this year. 

     

     

    46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

    If the over/under on that list was 8.5, I’d take the under. 
     

    If it was set at 5.5 I’d take the over. 
     

    :P 

     

    Curious about whether the truth lies in teams of higher or lower quality retaining more players over time.

     

    2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

    That was a long presser.

     

    Quinn is a pretty good communicator. I think that element is necessary w/ our fanbase.

     

    I liked the talk of marrying scheme w/ player ability. We don't want a repeat of last year where you mash square pegs into round holes simply due to the hubris of the guy in charge. You have to be able to be malleable in the NFL, and it seems like Quinn gets that.

     

    Good presser. Hits the points you expect it to. Didn't dig themselves into any pits.

     

    Kinda wish Quinn was calling the D but as long as we are installing his D I guess that is OK.

     

    I have to acknowledge that nerdy offensive coordinators transitioning to head coaches seem to gain an advantage by effectively leveraging their talent on game days. The traditional model appears to relinquish control, attempting to oversee everything.

     

    Just call the plays! Whatever… onward! 

     

     

  12. 15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    Crazy how durable Kirk has been up to this season.  Will see if he's the same though post ACL injury.


    I actually think he’ll be just fine. Dude is maniacal about pretty much everything in life, just not on Tuesdays ;)  lol 

     

    I see him being a potential coup for a franchise if he plays ball financially, which I think he and his agent will this time around. 

    • Like 1
  13. 3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    Yeah I was into Carr when he had that career year.  But i was out on him after that, when his play started to slide.  So when he became availlable the previous off season, I was against the idea.  Unlike Kirk, Carr fell off a cliff.  You got me why?  Kirk has had sneaky a good career, one of the more consistent of that 2nd tier group.

     

    From what I read they are restructuring Carr's contract not giving him a paycut so in effect that will keep him in NO longer, ironically. 


    100% concede Kirk separated himself from likes of Derek Carr or that level of QB. He still doesn’t score enough points or throw enough TDs to warrant big time dollars, but Kirk is a good pocket QB. 

    • Like 1
  14.  

    22 hours ago, Going Commando said:

     

    Not to mention their personalities and coaching styles are completely different.  Quinn is a dynamo with infectious passion for the game, and an innovative schemer with a special expertise at getting through to players with difficult personalities.  Rivera is an old school stoic who can't go outside of his trusted circle, and is uniquely terrible at working with any players who aren't complete church boys or have a military background.

     

    Great value with him entering after calling games on the defensive side. Hoping he positions himself to stay actively involved and continue calling plays on defense. Must leverage his expertise – the same expectation I'd have for a standout OC transitioning to head coach.

     

     

    1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:


    hahahaha….

     

    I’ve always said, him at 5% or so of the cap is okay with me.

     

    Rumors are Wilson will be had for $10-15 mil next season. Your boy Carr is next in line for a huge salary reduction. 

  15. Honestly, Quinn appears to be the kind of coach I initially expected Washington to have with Ron Rivera. I don't anticipate repeatedly hearing about patience and time from Quinn, but those are buzzwords I'll definitely be watching out for, lol.

     

    Call the plays on defense, Quinn. This is his superpower, Washington should benefit from this superpower. 

     

    • Super Duper Ain't No Party Pooper Two Thumbs Up 1
  16. 39 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

     

    No bc GMs have longer rope and also are the ones in charge of fixing the facilities, selecting the new QB, etc. Coaches don't have that control and have to live with whatever decisions the GM makes, even though it's the HC's ass if the decisions are poor.

     

    That's why successful coaches want control (e.g., Vrabel, Belichick) or more ready-made situations with larger economic guarantees (Macdonald & Seattle as an example, or Canales getting a six-year deal in CAR despite only one year as a Coordinator)

     

     


    What qualifies as not attractive to highly thought of GM with options? 
     

  17. 20 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

    I know we all built ourselves up into believing this was a great destination, but clearly the market said otherwise.

     

    We still have a crap stadium filled with opposing fans, crap facilities and a crap roster.  Much of that won’t be fixed until at least the next coach gets hired.  
     

    Beyond that, I think it says that these young guns don’t see a slam dunk QB prospect available either.

     

     


    Wouldn’t this logic apply to the GM search? 

  18. 16 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

    What defensive minded head coaches have won the SB since Bill beat Quinn? 0. Going on 7 years now, times are changing. This franchise continues to trail behind. 

     

    Does Steve Spagnuolo get enough credit for the Chiefs' last two Super Bowl appearances?

     

    The Chiefs offense has delivered average returns throughout the year.

     

    To your point, acknowledging the value of a great offensive mind is valid, but having a great defensive mind can be equally crucial. The emphasis should be on greatness, and Quinn has consistently delivered on the defensive side of the ball, helping teams break free from the clutches of mediocrity.

     

    The upside of going for a retread or an older dude is their financial stability and self-awareness, granting them an "F it" mentality to go all-in and pursue greatness.

     

     

    • Thumb up 1
  19. 1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

     

    Jay Gruden.

     

    Logan had a pretty pedestrian career. He was around the league on several teams in his tenure... sure... why the local media started to bring him in for his expertise is a bit odd.


    Give him a listen, he has some good insight and breaks down film. Remove what he did or didn’t do in his career. 

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1
  20. 16 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

    Logan Paulson going to be ecstatic. 


    Logan’s going to be biased, but also have fantastic insight during Quinn’s tenure.

     

    4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

     

    As far as Atlanta, Logan Paulsen said Quinn spent some time after his HC stint as to things he'd do differently the 2nd time around -- it was either Logan or someone else said this forgetting whom that Quinn regrets not staying hands on with the defense in Atlanta.

     

    This is it for me—I'm hoping he sticks with calling the defense. When I cheer for my team, I want the head coach delivering consistent returns with what earned him the job in the first place. For the young offensive-minded head coach, it's all about calling the plays.
     

    Call the plays! 
     

    3 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

    A defensive head coach in a league where offense is the most important it’s ever been with the game being so catered to offense is just mind numbing. This team spent the better part of the last 5 years trying to rebuild the defense thinking they would channel the magic of Alabama and it got us no where :Lol: This team can’t do anything right. 

     

    Or flip it around—offense, well, that's the easy part; defense, now that's the real challenge. Having a sharp defensive mind can be a game-changer and give us a crucial edge.

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