wit33

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

How do you guys not realize what a ****ty QB Fields is? It's kind of amazing that some of you think Russell Wilson needs to "watch his back" or massive 1st round bust running back Justin Fields is somehow going to magically become an actual NFL QB and take the starting job.

You’ll come around in due time  

Honestly, I'd be shocked if the locker room doesn't start (if not already) leaning towards Fields over Wilson. Wilson will have to put his body on the line and return to running to not be a below average QB. 

45 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Russell Wilson played decent to good last season. He was far from the problem in Denver - but he just wasn’t what Payton wanted at any point. Wilson was doomed there the moment Payton was hired.

 

I think he will play well for the Steelers and they have the infrastructure and team around him where they could make some noise

Roughly 30 quarterbacks could manage decently given the right support. Though, being paid league minimum and being a decent QB carries some value. My guess is the lockeroom will side with Fields from the get and it will require Steelers getting off to a hot start to avoid being benched for Fields. Not even sure Wilson wins the job. 
 

Full disclosure, never been a huge fan of Wilson’s. 

1 hour ago, Command The 414 said:

All things equal I totally agree, but I think Fields at some point of the season will become the starter in Pittsburgh as I think he is head and shoulders better at this point of their careers then Russell Wilson, and he will do fine and have his choice of options, 1 being a return to the Steelers as the starter 

The elite dual-threat QB runner opens up the opportunity to adopt a ground-and-pound strategy in today's pass-friendly environment. It makes perfect sense for the Steelers to shift towards a more athletic QB to focus on power football. The delay in this approach was likely due to Big Ben and a desire to avoid mirroring their division rivals' style.

Russell better step up his game and get in top shape if he wants to keep Fields at bay. He's gotta embrace being a dual-threat QB again if he wants to stay relevant; he’s a terrible pocket QB If that’s all he’s doing. Wonder if he's finally realized he needs to humble himself.

22 minutes ago, BMagic said:

Hmm... That doesn't quite add up the same way. Oh well, never mind! 😄 

On 4/23/2024 at 7:22 PM, bh32 said:

I just watched every pass and run by JD and the way the media was hyping him i was expecting much more..He is not the elusive runner like people make him out to be..He has more long speed than he does burst.

His jump cut is elite/special so much so it channeled thoughts of Adrian Petersons jump cut. 

14 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Believe it or not Daniels has this exact same issue. He airmailed plenty of balls when pushed off his base in the pocket. He definitely maintains his mechanics better than Maye right now though. The dude lacks no confidence. I will give him that:

 

 

I love that he's stepping into this with confidence. One of RG3's biggest struggles was not staying true to himself and trying to fit into others' expectations of a QB. Thankfully, many outdated coaches and media figures have either adapted or retired, and QBs who both look and play like him have excelled in the league, paving the way for him to be bold and speak his truth.

He comes off as very comfortable in his own skin. 

44 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

Herbert has 17223 yards passing with 114 touchdowns and 42 interceptions in 4 years.

In the entirety of this franchises history we've never even sniffed that type of production over a 4 year period.

 

Wins and losses are not a quarterback stat.

Most QBs have cool stats these days. Those also look really cool. 
 

For great to elite QBs, wins and losses are indeed a QB stat. Winning in the playoffs, I would agree, is influenced by facing other great to elite QBs, so the team and coaches play a significant role. In the regular season, if your QB is great, they should generally have a winning record.

As for the  70-80% of QBs starting who are mediocre, I agree, it's less about wins and losses and more about other factors. 

21 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I am a pessimist when it comes to this team so my prediction is they draft Daniels, he can't stay healthy, and Maye turns into Herbert. I am ready for it. Onto hockey playoffs.

Herbert is still fighting to have more wins than losses four years into his career. But as we know, those who fit the model of what QBs should be get a great amount of grace. 

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

If he continues his historically low amount of times he throws after being pressured I fear he's going to get absolutely demolished when he takes more hits than necessary.

You've really been leaning on that stat for the past month or so, huh? It must be frustrating to see Maye performing just as poorly! Just imagine the comparisons you could've made if Maye had been 7-8 percent better. It would've given you some real ammunition.

Daniel's day one offers a genuine chance to excel in the run and play-action game while projecting to protect the football at an elite level. It all adds up to a playoff ceiling in year one.

Perhaps Maye doesn't need as much time on the bench to refine his mechanics and footwork like Mahomes, Rodgers, and Love did. Luckily, I'm all for backyard football, and I believe Maye is solid as a runner, although not quite at Howell's level, but still good. I’m down for a YOLO season while he learns, I can see him having the guts to endure a 20 plus INT season— I can get behind a gunslinger. 

46 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Daniels and his mom played a huge role in that dysfunction!! Daniels played a role in multiple coaches getting fired. 

This is the pros, no one cares about the parents. Non issue. 

Lavar Ball approves this message. 

12 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Go to YouTube and search Purdy anticipation throw. This one was my favorite example.

 

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

In your opinion, how frequently did Purdy execute completions like these per game? I'm not trying to come off as condescending, but I do acknowledge having some skepticism at this point. Just want to clarify my stance. 
 

Any chance you took a look at the Mahomes video I sent, were there any anticipatory throws? 

I’m currently delving into the concept of anticipatory throws in football, exploring their frequency and importance in games. I’m at the early stages of self-learning and would appreciate if anyone could share examples of NFL quarterbacks consistently making anticipatory throws during games.

Starting with an elite quarterback like Patrick Mahomes, I watched a 3-minute video showcasing 18 completions he made in an AFC Championship game, which many regard as a flawless first half. However, I struggled to identify a throw that exemplified anticipatory timing, although I acknowledge I may be mistaken in my understanding.

Hers the three minute clip for those willing to indulge:

https://www.chiefs.com/video/every-completion-from-patrick-mahomes-near-perfect-first-half-chiefs-vs-bengals

I admit my bias and recognize that there may be conflicting definitions of what constitutes an anticipatory throw among those here, but I'm open to learning and being corrected.

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

Your opinion is starting to float into Jeff bezos territory. 

I give you credit for having strong belief in your convictions but thinking Milton has more upside than daniels is ludicrous. 

it’s a trap, ruuuun! 

23 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

And that's why I have no interest in hearing things like "most coaches think.." in this context. Coaches and players for obvious reasons are always concerned about the short-term. The whole Herm "you play to win the game" mindset. Most of the arguments for Daniels center around how much better he will be now, not in the long-term. Which, imo, is not at all where the team's mindset should be. 

It's fascinating how there's now a growing acceptance of the idea that Daniels has the highest floor and is most ready to make an instant impact. The narrative surrounding elite dual-threat quarterbacks is evolving, which is pretty cool to see. Now, the focus is shifting towards questioning the ceiling of dual-threat quarterbacks and less the floor, which is becoming a popular topic of discussion.

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Pressure to sack ratio isn't a "twitter analytic" insofar as I assume you mean some random stat made up for the specific purpose of pushing an agenda. It's been around for many years and most analytics houses, including PFF, do a pretty good job of going through the tape when they compile it.

The way analytics are often pushed by the masses is lazy. They should be used as part of the overall player analysis, but too often, mathematical metrics are presented as absolute truth without proper context. They're then used as a major reason to dismiss a player in fan forums. This has been a primary argument against Daniel, while the prospect you support faces similar scrutiny.

I understand you apply nuance and context to explain how Maye can overcome it, but you fail to provide Daniel with similar consideration. The presentation lacks depth, and there's been a lack of effort to break down the sacks and provide personal context. Some in the media have, like Sheehan who I’ve heard provide some personal context to the stat that I appreciate. 

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Daniels, I think he'll get sacked a fair amount and hit a lot, because of those two intertwined numbers I noted. I think he's going to face pressure he never faced in college, and even with a really good OL he still rarely threw when pressured and often immediately dropped his eyes and looked to run. IMO that worrying tendency is going to be magnified in the NFL.

What are some ways you feel he can overcome this and not take too many sacks? 

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And that's bad news for a guy who's as slight of build as Daniels and who has shown a propensity for not protecting himself very well.

Injury risk is certainly a factor, but personally, I couldn't care less about injuries. The goal is to maximize players' primes and keep moving forward. As long as there's no PCL, MCL, ACL tear, or Achilles rupture, they can remain effective into their early 30s.

21 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Though I'm a guy favoring Maye (genuinely concerned about JDs durability in the pros) I hope he does too. I hope the same for Maye and JD etc..

 

I hope every serious QB candidate they evaluate makes them really work to get to the decision.

 

 

I completely understand the concerns about durability, and it would be reasonable for a front office to factor that into their decision-making process. However, I wouldn't base my decision solely on injury concerns when choosing between players. It's disappointing that mastering the baseball slide wasn't prioritized earlier in his youth, as it's a fundamental skill for QBs.

Ultimately, in the NFL, one must acknowledge the risk of injury and proceed accordingly; there are no guarantees with any player. IMHO

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I am concerned about it with Maye. The reason I'm more concerned about it with Daniels is that I think it directly ties in with another worrying statistic, which is how rarely he throws vs runs when pressured. He is historically bad in this category. You can see it on film as well. The majority of the time when he's pressured he tends to almost immediately drop his eyes and look to run. And that was with a really good OL who usually gave him plenty of protection; he probably isn't going to have that in the NFL, at least at first. I just don't think that's at all sustainable in the NFL, especially running it that much with his slight frame.

Twitter analytics have evolved somewhat into salacious rumor mill fodder, reminiscent of the gossip magazines of the '90s. While analytics are often associated with intelligence and are relatively new, their acceptance by the media and public remains fairly high, albeit showing signs of losing steam. However, I find that a good amount of the analytics I encounter are lazy and incomplete for the most part. Most own my exposure of analytics is most on this board, so I don’t cast a wide net of exposure lol. 
 

Your believe he will get sacked a lot in the pros? 

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You're going back to the same argument he had, which was "well, he didn't take many sacks"

 

Who cares? The entire point of the statistic is the number of sacks relative to the number of pressures. The raw number of sacks is definitely a number with no context.

 

As I mentioned, the context can also be thought about in terms of how little he passes when pressured compared to running. So if he runs a lot when pressured, obviously he's not throwing it up for grabs to avoid sacks and obviously he's not going to throw a lot of INTs since...well, since the ball is never in the air.

 

That's why those are two problematic stats that are IMO intertwined and will potentially cause a lot of problems in the NFL.

I despise these statistics when they're weaponized without context, but I'll entertain the surface-level discussion regarding pressure to sack percentages. How concerned are you about Drake Mayes having a sack rate within 1 percent of Daniels'? 

15 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

No joke. RG3 is likely always going to tout anyone that remotely looked like him in college. AP - take Maye lol. 

It would be fascinating to hear quarterbacks discuss their struggles with reading pre and post-snap situations, and why some excel at it more than others. NBA players often provide more transparency about what sets the greats apart, but there's a lack of similar openness in the QB position.

I'm not sure if for example JT O'Sullivan has discussed why he struggled or couldn't break through in the NFL, but delving into that aspect would require a lot of courage and vulnerability. It's possible that some quarterbacks have discussed it, but it's not widely known. This type of dialogue no laymen pompous fan can make claim to understanding.
 

I wonder if the association of elite quarterback play with mental acuity makes it challenging for quarterbacks to acknowledge that another QB might be smarter in simpler terms.

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

This is why I can never turn off my brain, forget my opinions, and just accept these sorts of appeals to authority.  The NFL has always been full of hacks that got where they were based on friendships and nepotism.

 

It's not like the medical field, or any field where the experts within it are genuine, super smart, highly professional, constantly renewing and cultivating their knowledge, and can't perform even the most basic functions of their job without authentic expertise.  It's an entertainment business centered around a ****ing kid's game.  It's also not like finding a QB is some impossible riddle to solve either, even the God Damn Jags, Bengals, Bills, and Chargers all managed to do it.  If we can't manage to do it with everything served up on a plate for us, then we are hopeless.

The plate includes Daniels as well, right? 

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Otoh, if you dig into Daniels, cherry pick Halloween through Bowl game '21, he tosses 4 TD's against 7 picks in his final 6 games of the season. Before that he was 6 TD's versus 3 picks. Did he ---- the bed down the stretch? I don't know, there's a ton of sample size. Daniels does the same in '22, starting the season with 14 TD's versus 1 pick, wrapping with 3 TD's versus 2 picks. 

 

I don't know what it means. I don't care too much either though since there's plenty of sample size to look at with both of them. Daniels has 50+ games worth of data to digest, Maye's got 30. Its interesting, but I don't know if what happens late on is meaningful. Could mean they're playing hurt, tired, or just sucked for a stretch or some other reason I'm not hitting on. 
 

I made zero mention of Daniels and wasn’t attempting to make it a comparison game. I simply presented the information and was curious what your thoughts, especially as it relates to the ‘breakout age’ discussion you posted about. Completely own the breakout age is a sham on the surface— no conclusions made. I acknowledge that my posting history on this subject is pro Daniels and not as much for Maye, though I'd be perfectly fine if they selected him. I do appreciate a lot about Maye as a quarterback.

I can find tough stretches for Tom Brady as well, not what I was attempting to do. I dislike some stats on a whole and they especially lack value at times at the collegiate level due to their being 350 plus division one schools and a huge gap in talent in some games.
 

I thought it was interesting that a third of his games to end the season and what you and most described as a regression season coincided.

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

I don't need my QB to be a maverick.

Yes we do. 

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Maye: Regression in final year, scary mechanics, weird accuracy issues.....(ftr, I don't give a ---- about mechanics, if the kid is a worker, he'll be fine, to me)

 

In 2022…

In his last four games, he had 4 touchdowns and 4 interceptions, losing each game. 
 

Maybe it wasn’t just his final year that experienced regression? 

 Help me out…
 

 
Questioning Breakout Age: However, I haven’t fully explored the idea of breakout age and upon initial consideration, it seems somewhat lacking in substance.

Drake Maye’s Case: For instance, after just 8 minutes of research, I found that in Drake Maye’s supposed breakout season, he began strongly with 9 touchdowns and 0 interceptions in his first two games against Florida A&M and Appalachian State.
 

Maye’s Performance Decline: Yet, in his last four games, he struggled with 4 touchdowns and 4 interceptions, losing each game. Despite this, many still regard it as a breakout season at a “young age.”

Acknowledging Bias: While I do have a preference for Daniels, I understand that Maye could still be a valuable choice if selected by the front office.

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, agree. I think even Jay Gruden (who McCloughan used to praise as an evaluator) admitted he typically only watches the highlights of a given prospect. And justified it by saying he only cares about what a prospect can do. Not surprisingly, he prefers Daniels as well. 
 

I usually take coaches’ opinions on prospects with a grain of salt - unless they’re foolishly granted the ultimate decision-making authority during the draft… as we did with Rivera. 

Coaches typically aren't fans of using "potential" as a substitute for "project" and understanding that miracles can happen, but the odds of players correcting their natural inclinations and body mechanics is a tough, uphill battle that's unique to each individual and their personal journey toward improvement. 

Most players don't refine their mechanics, yet many are genuinely hardworking and nice young individuals. 
 

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

If we draft Daniels I'll be very disappointed on draft day, and think the pick was a mistake, but then the next day I'll shift to fully supporting him and hoping I'm wrong. I think most Maye advocates feel the same way.

Respect! ✊

I'm much like you, but I believe there are many ways to win at QB, and for me, most of it relates to the cap hit. But that's a whole other conversation. 
 

I love that Drake Maye is uber-aggressive with throwing down the field, which is close to my number one prerequisite for a pocket/mobile QB to have any shot at impacting games beyond QBs 8-35 or so. 

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

And the "uber athletic" running type QB is nothing new. There have been some over the last 20 years. Vick, Cam, RG3, Lamar, Richardson. But most teams prefer pocket passers first, and none of those guys won anything or had especially long careers. So "about to break through" is a bit misleading.

Russell Wilson belongs on our side. Lol

No doubt, the 50-plus-year history of the NFL doesn’t have a lot of run-centric QBs winning SBs, but I like to include the final 8 or even final four, and the run-centric QB is littered all over the place over the last 15-20 years. 
 

I’m open to any and all pathways to achieve some sort of elite performance or success at the QB spot. For example, I was the biggest Alex Smith supporter here because I believed his intangibles were elite, and overnight he changed the culture within the locker room during his time (AP deserves credit as well).
 

I'm intrigued by any path that creates a potential avenue to escape average or mediocrity that permiaties throughout the league each and every year. 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

  Cooley used to make fun of how Keim is so cautious to say anything unless he has 7 sources backing him up.

 

Uh oh... whenever this Cooley comment comes up, Bruce Arians' book is bound to get some mention soon! Jk. 
 

Also, come over to the good side and welcome Jayden Daniels—I know you've got it in you. The uber-elite athletic QB is about to break through, just like MJ did for shooting guards in the early 90s. Ahead of the curve!