wit33

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The dude who botched his contract and according to Keim among others he didn't like -- Bruce Allen got fired in infamy.  This leam was dead last in QBR after he left, did not have a single winning season.  And the idea that he didn't want to be here while didn't seem cool back then and befuddled some of our fans -- really aged well when we learned he was far from alone on that front and dysfunction was much deeper than we even realized back then. 

 

Hopefully the karma has changed with Dan gone and Howell now starting.   If Howell ends up a more clutch version of Kirk, I'd dig that.  Who doesn't want an elite QB but they don't grow on trees.  this organization has struggled to find even good QBs, so if Howell ends up "just" good, I'd be happy with that.  You can win with good QB play as long as they aren't too expensive.

He didn't want to stay because he didn't have a fully guaranteed contract. Kirk would have had no problem quarterbacking for this franchise if he had been offered an elite-level contract at the time. Let's be clear, he's no martyr, just a 100% capitalist, lol.

Just now, zCommander said:

 

And he was actually taller than Anthony Mix to boot lol

Impossible. 

14 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

Also, Dak and Jimmy win a ton of games and are always in the playoffs so if that’s purgatory, sign me up. 

They’ll both be available this off season lol As well as our beloved Kurt. 
 

All at discounted costs! Yuck!

In the NFL, making the playoffs without an elite quarterback often makes repeating the feat in the following season unrealistic. This holds true for every team, including those led by your favorite up-and-coming head coach or GM.
 

Appreciate the playoffs, strive to build upon them, and keep the momentum going.

15 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If this teams makes the playoffs, it will be a quick exit.  We would get one if these 3 teams most likely- 49ers, Eagles, Lions. Those are likely 1-3 seeds in the nfc. The nfc south winner likely is 4th seed and we aren’t going to be as good as a 5th seed.

 

In and out and Ron gets the boot.

Laughable some choose to scoff at playoffs.

No value in a first year starter spearheading a charge into the playoffs? 
 

New England would die for a playoff birth this season. 

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

That said, Ron was criminally negligent to leave him, and the rest of the starters, in the Bear's game, when it was completely decided.  Any one of them could have gotten hurt for no reason.  Terry got turf toe in the pre-season. Same thing could happen to anybody in garbage time during a blowout.  That's 100% on Ron.

This isn’t a consensus thought among people who participate in competitive sports or coaches among the NFL. I’d actually say most leave in starters when games are decided.
 

Many of the players have incentives attempting to reach and understand stats are important when at the negotiating table. The motivation for players is often much more nuanced than it is for the fan. 

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This is why I rarely engage with you.

We definitely view things from a different lens and point of view, no doubt! 
 

As long as he’s aligned with EB, which it seems they are then all is good. The whole idea of pulling QBs out to not get them hurt is self serving and without much basis. The same people will pay little attention to the starting rookie LB or whoever pounding themselves into the A-gap during a meaningless possession in the 4th quarter. Why not protect that guy or all of them? 

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

If Howell stays healthy and we put up 30 plus points I couldn't care less how many sacks we're giving up.

The context and circumstances surrounding each sack can vary significantly. It's important to consider these factors when evaluating a quarterback's performance and their ability to handle hits.

When a quarterback takes off and runs, they are more exposed to hits because they become a ball carrier. It's a calculated risk that some quarterbacks are willing to take in order to extend plays or gain yards on the ground. I want this in my QB. 
 

Howell reminds me a bit of Brett Favre, tough and fearless playing style. Willing to take hits and continue playing through them, much like a linebacker mentality. While this approach can be exciting and sometimes effective, it does come with a higher risk of injury. If this is how Howell can escape mediocrity or a QB ceiling of 12-25, then bring on the injury risk. 

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

It's the defense I'm infuriated with at the moment, their utter lack of cohesion is inexcusable. 

Unreal.
 

Talent, continuity and high character football guys…. Inexcusable! 

59 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Offense needs to get going early too. Everyone killed the defense last week(deservedly so) but the offense opened with back to back three and outs against an awful defense and only managed 3 points in one half. They were almost as much to blame in the first half as the defense.

 

In five first halves so far we've scored: 7, 11, 3, 17, and 3. That's an average of just over 8 points. Unacceptably low.

Solid point here!
 

I support EB and extremely happy overall with his approach, but must be able to establish some success and even grab momentum early in games. 

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

EB needs to tell EB that his job as a coach isn't to do what players think. He's the adult now and needs to protect guys as well.

Protection from what? Does Jacoby Brisset not deserve the same protection if he were to fill in? Howell is an adult as well and can manage playing a few extra snaps in a game.
 

What are we talking about, play the game and keep it moving. 

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Get them, EB! To the top or nowhere. 

Whwre do you fall these days with EB overall and specifically his mentorship and guidance he’s providing Howell? 

Howell seems well-prepared to handle the challenges of an NFL season, both physically and mentally, even without an elite offensive line. All this talk about coddling or whatever is unnecessary. It's reminiscent of the discussions I heard from Eagles fans during the Andy Reid years. Hoping EB continues to push it to the max and Howell continues to experience blips of elite play (Pressure creates diamonds—RG3)
 

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can't possibly let Fuller go.  He's our most reliable CB and isn't old at all(turns 29 in February).

 

The question to ask now is: if we're 2-5 heading into the trade deadline(Oct 31), and Young is playing at a high level, do you trade him? If some team offers a 2nd I'd think about it, even though I wanna keep him, because if he hits FA it's almost a lock he'll walk.

Corners worry me much like RBs when nearing 30. No real data I’m basing this off of. Thoughts? 

If a quarterback is constantly under pressure without much personal success, it can certainly impact their confidence. Sam Howell, for instance, has faced a fair amount of pressure but still seems confident in his abilities as a QB, with 131 completed passes, a 68% pass completion rate, three games with over 290 yards, and six touchdown throws.

For comparison, David Carr is often cited as a potential example of a QB who struggled significantly. He had a completion percentage of only 52%, 2,500 passing yards, nine passing touchdowns, and 233 completions in 16 games. 
 

We’ll see how he holds up physically and it seems he’s wanting to work on taking less hits. 

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I think EB's mindset is that the best way to win in today's NFL is throwing the football, so we gotta get Howell going and see if he has it otherwise we're just wasting time being a run first ground and pound team and grinding out 8-9 wins because that has no sustainable future.

Exactly, rather have the potential franchise QB with 400 completions under his belt in a season even if it’s playing .500 type ball 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've had a little time to reflect on the offense and on Howell.  Here's my reflection:

 

I think there is a small amount of criticism EB is taking that is warranted.  

 

I think a whole lot is not deserved at all.

 

The "run the ball more" crowd just needs to shut up.  That's not how you do offense in the league now, and it's not the Andy Reid system.  Reid has been pass-first, run when appropriate (especially in the second half) for his entire career.  He was roasted for it in Philly with McNabb.  You know what?  He's smarter than all of the critics.  EB is a Reid disciple.  He's following the same blueprint.  It's fine.  It works.  

 

As I called out in the "Day After: Bea" thread: over the first 3 drives, they ran the ball 6 times for 10 yards, and that included 5 straight runs for 1 yard or less.  The first run of the game was 5 yards, the next 5 net 5 yards.  It directly led to 2 3-outs.  You can "stick with" the running game only if you can pick up first downs.  Over 5 runs, if you get 5 yards, you can't stick with the running game. It wasn't working even a little bit.  So, EB abandoned it and went to something which was working, which was throwing the ball to 11 different receivers.  He fully substituted the short pass for the run, because the run wasn't working even a little bit.  He couldn't sacrifice another drive or two to "stick with the running game" with the way the defense was playing.  If the defense was holding it's own, fine, you can keep at it and punt.  When the defense is being torched, you don't have that luxury.  You have to score every drive to stay in the game.  If over 6 runs you have 10 yards, it's time to do something else.  

 

Now, could he have come back to the run a little later, at least here or there?  Yes.  I wanted him to run down around the goal line, a draw or something probably would have caught the defense flat footed.  But they scored anyway, so it's tough to criticize.

 

I like Robinson. However, the results over a bunch of games now is runs early in games aren't good, and are better once the pass has been established.  That's the pattern.  

 

Which takes us to Howell.  

 

He basically took the entire offense over against the Bears.  After 2 3-outs, a bunch of which was due to trying to be balanced and run the ball unsuccessfully, he QBed the offence over the next 7 drives to 20 points, and was basically moving the ball up and down the field.  3 big mistakes, or it would have been more:  Slye's missed FG is automatic 3 points, Logan Thomas' fumble.  No fumble and they have the ball at their own 47 with a first down.  Very likely get points out of that drive.  And then Howell's INT.  All bad.  Apart from those three mistakes, they basically had their way with the Bear's defense for the middle part of the game.  The problem: the defense just kept giving up more and more points.  

 

A fair criticism of Howell at the moment is he holds the ball too long, and needs to speed up the process and get the ball out of his hands.  The concern is he's a "throw it after you see it open" guy.  I don't think that's the case, but if it is, he's not going to last.  This also can't really be coached.  Either that's who you are or you aren't.  

 

If he's a "throw with anticipation" guy, then this is going to improve with time.  The sacks will go down, and the completions will go up.  I think this is what you're going to see.  It's Sam's first year in one of the most wordy, complex offenses in the history of the NFL.  (Also one of the best.)  But it's going to take some time for him to "get it." 

 

Apart from the processing speed criticism, which is fair, there's nothing else to criticize.  He's learning.  He's played 6 games.  He's going to make some bone-headed mistakes.  Peyton Manning threw 20 INTS (or something like that) his rookie year.  They put the entire offense on him, and he had to sink or swim. He sank a lot.  Then he turned into one of the best swimmers of all time.  I don't expect Sam to have the same trajectory as Manning, but I could see a similar path, where he just keeps getting better, better, quicker and quicker as the season goes on.

 

Absent the Bills game, the offense has carried this team.  They're going to have to continue to do it.  I don't expect the defense to turn it around this year.  Call it a hunch.  I think it's just broken.  

 

That means Sam's going to have to throw the ball a ton the rest of the season.  

 

One other thing: I would argue the Commanders had excellent balance against the Bears offensively: 11 players caught passes.  That's actually balance.  It's not run/pass balance, but it is balance.  My nit-pick is Terry needs to be getting A LOT more targets.  He had 4 receptions on 5 targets.  Thomas had 9 receptions on 11 targets.  I think that needs to flip.  But having said that, if they were bracketing Terry and that took Sam to the TE, that shows significant growth from him.

 

Somebody once said Tom Brady's superpower was just doing the "boring" thing over and over again. (I looked for the quote, I can't find it.  It might have actually been Payton who said it.  I remember hearing it on TV at some point.)  So, if that's the reason Thomas got 11 targets, I can live with that.  

100%. 
 

I have confidence EB will stay the course and not let outside or even internal pressure get him away from his philosophy and vision. He’s an older dude with many years in the game and financially set for life, harder to move those dudes off their path. Elite ceiling potential! 
 

Love that Howell is getting thrown into the fire and being given opportunity to sink or swim. 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Looooove this! Drop him back more and more! Continue to attack defenses in whatever way is best for that drive, quarter, half or game. 

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cool enough, thanks.  I get the point about fluff. But in Jay's case he's been watching this team closely every week.  He's on every local radio show and podcast just about -- he can cite play after play from those games.  He still knows some of the personnel personally.  He started as somewhat of a skeptic of Howell but over time he's been sold.  

 

Jay easily one of the best for a fan to listen on all levels you hit. Must separate from him as a coach here I suppose, but that’s a choice. 
 

He’s easily my favorite, along with Cooley (when locked in) and to a lesser degree Paulsen (needs to stop worrying so much about what everyone thinks, but he’s young in the game). 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think you are taking the point too literally.  When do we hear about OUR players leading the league in this or that. Maybe Achane ends up sucking but for now he looks great. 

 

It's not debatable that multiple regimes here especially this one has struggled to find elite players.  It's not easy to do but we basically hardly ever do it. 

It’s scheme and a player thing for me. I get what you’re saying though. 
 

In EBs scheme, I project cool individual stats will take place. 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Whether its PFF, the players ranking their own guys, All Pro votes, personnel guys, you name it picking the top 100 players in the league -- we rarely have much representation.  Trent was always in the mix back in the day.  But otherwise we'd have a dude ranked like 85, sometimes two players, sometimes 1, sometimes none.

 

we need a FO who can draft game changers.  Elite players.  We draft some very good players but rarely the best of the best, a top 5 player at their position, etc.  Guys like Kam Curl are special to us fans.  But the rest of the league consider other safeties as special not him.

 

Part of the reason why I wanted Chase Young was he came off like a dude who would be top 5.  It hasn't happened yet but it still could.

 

The best players on this team are arguably from Jay's era.

 

I watch a dude like Devon Achane yesterday and he looks special.  Heck Christian Gonzalez preinjury hyped as special.  Darrisaw who they passed over at LT for Jamin Davis is borderline special.  Ivan Pace doesn't grab them.  But he grabbed me and several others here.

 

They seem to have a good eye to find good players.  I don't think this FO has a good eye to find special talent. 

Devon Achane gets lumped in with Trent after a few weeks of highlights? I get your point and agree talent has been a struggle at Mrs with Washington. Imagine Devon Achane in Tennessee lol. Good fit in Miami! 
 

This is why uniquely talented OCs who are sometimes trailblazers are paramount, in my view. EB leans me in direction he will have Washington fans excited about a player, two or three by the close of the season. 

32 minutes ago, Conn said:

This is poor coaching and lack of buy-in. In year 4. 

Absolutley criminal for the defense to be in the position it is at this point in time. Don’t want to be prisoner of the moment, the defense took over the Cardinal game and righted the ship against Denver, but overall what an abomination. 
 

Im thrilled with the production of the offense and it’s potential moving forward and have no clue what to expect from the defense.

Side tangent:

I don’t watch film, so hate going this direction with analysis of relating to players off-the-ball, but maybe it’s time for a shakeup in the secondary and get Hudson some snaps. Want a ball dominant dude to get the ball and attack, the one thing I loved about Landon Collins, so awesome in the run game. Issues on levels, but inexcusable that teams are running against Washington, must dominate in the run game. 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the point.  But I'll use the 49ers as an example.  They went to town on defense.    And their defense is killer good.   Purdy is a 7th round pick but he's good enough on a team with stars like Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, McCaffrey.

 

Ron IMO isn't in the 49ers league as a GM.   Howie Roseman moves up and down the draft and builds draft capital and created a loaded roster in short order during Ron's tenure.  He steps on the gas and is creative.   He found his franchise QB in a draft that Ron could have taken the same guy -- but from what I can tell Ron wasn't into Hurts.

 

Ron hurts himself with his own rheotric explaining why he didn't dig Tua and Herbert in that draft while in an indigant fashion said he looked at the anayltics himself and that's why he wanted Wentz.

 

I just don't see how Ron is going to take us to the promised land.   He makes some good moves.  He makes some good picks.  But he doesn't strike me special at his job.  He doesn't seem to have a sense of urgency.  As far as QBs hopefully Sam is the guy.  Otherwise I am not sure i trust this regime to find that next guy -- and that's not because I think they are bad at their job, its because I think they are just OK.  

 

Back to your point if you want to win with defense takes the lead old school style -- then actually do it. 

I often use the Titans as well for this argument. This is why I’m able to get behind an Alex Smith type offense as well, I believe it provides a high floor and an ability to consistently beat the other 70-80% of mediocre teams. 
 

EB style offense allows Washington opportunity to hang 31 points against an elite team like Eagles on a day when the defense couldn’t provide enough resistance for four quad. 

Not tied down to any model, but will always prefer the aggressive all-in approach that provides a higher ceiling in most situations. No down or distance seems is out of the question. 
 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ok sounds good.  Nothing personal on my end either -- the angst is pointed towards the people in charge.

 

My angst with Ron is different than Bruce, Dan, etc.  As a dude, i totally respect him.  Good person.  High character.  Bruce and Dan weren't just incompetent but were sleazy.

Totally agree. Hated the culture during those years, it’s actually a HUGE a reason why I was so high on Alex Smith and AP to a lesser degree. They provided an identity, culture, and brand of football to get behind that rose above the mess behind the scenes for bits and pieces of seasons. Professionals!
 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think Ron is incompetent, I think he's OK at his job.    He does more good than bad.  But for me its not just good enough.

I am not at a much different position than you are in regards to Ron, early on I was tougher on Ron than most, but I’m a sucker for continuity and do like the talent on the roster. 
 

EB is the first dude since the Shannahans in that he seems to have a vison in how to get things done aggressively and gives Washington a shot at escaping mediocrity. He’s old and head strong enough (I believe) to not let simpletons residue of average talk (Ron and fans) get in his way to become dynamic. 
 

He’s my only hope outside of continuity or an elite QB to escape mediocrity. And who knows what his future holds 😕 

People calling for his head have lost their minds IMO. The most dynamic the offense has been since Kirk in-between-the 20s and the RG3 season. 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for this season, I doubt the Bears game ends up defining.  It would be on brand for them to beat Atlanta and then lose to either the Patriots or Giants.  Maybe they even beat the Eagles.   It's not a linear ride.  Ups and downs but I expect it to end around 500.

Not sure many rosters can expect to be much better than .500 without an elite signal caller. It happens all the time, but to expect it is another story. 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

My memory is good for some of your points because as @KDawg articulated well recently you go outside the lines of the typical take here so having people like that helps the debates otherwise we'd all being echoing each other.

 

On that theme, I recall years back a post where you challenged whether I or anyone here could do better with personnel than Dan Snyder.   You were passionate at defending Bruce Allen's work.

Bruce’s tenure was bad. I often would argue it as being mediocre, especially during the Kirk seasons. I’ll take the L and admit he was bad not mediocre. 
 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So yeah that idea that no one here can even dream of having a draft this year that matches Rivera.  I get it.  Rivera is 10 times smarter than Dan and at least 5 times smarter than Bruce.

No clue how many times smarter each are than the other. Gets into the weeds a bit for me.

I believe most of us would do just as well as Dan Snyder unless one of us would’ve hit on an elite QB. 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But to answer your point, many of us actually say who we would take and why BEFORE the draft.  For example, while Devon Achane is burning up the league for the Dolphins.  I actually took that same player in the mock draft the board did for the Dolphins.  Again BEFORE the draft. 

 

While some are talking about how did the league miss out on Ivan Pace, some here me included where all over wanting Ivan Pace BEFORE the draft.

 

We talked about the depth in the draft at CB before the draft.  We talked about how thin the depth was at the O line before the draft.

 

I get it, there are guys I hit on relating to NBA potential in most seasons. 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Would I want me or anyone here running the draft.  Of course not that's ridiculous.  Maybe though @Koolblue13?  But most of my point is if jokers like us can do better than this regime as to the 2023 draft -- at least in the context of helping this team now.  It doesn't reflect well on this regime.  As I said its not about us bragging, its 100% about taking a shot at this FO. 
 

Don’t feed the ego of @Koolblue13 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can feel the anger in your posts.  My 2 cents is I'd recommend chilling. 
 

Zero anger until this second sentence, but I will manage lol

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been consistent with count on an inconsistent run.  Cool highs.  Low lows.  8-9 ride.  Ron's seasons aren't linear.  Some good times ahead, I'd bet where you could crow for a week or two.   But as I told you in a recent post I wouldn't live and die with anything yet.  It changes week to week especially with this team.

 

No crow at this point, I’m on side of requiring playoffs without an elite QB. My foundation of belief is cracked after that monstrosity of a game. Absolutely cannot happen, but it does happen from time to time to most teams during the season. Hopefully they can bounce back. 
 

You are one that has engaged over the years, so I feel I can come at you more than others. I own having attachment to points of view and philosophical stuff relating to how things are done in the NFL, but very little towards posters (especially you).
 

All in fun and in spirit to discuss and debate man…. Always! 

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 Excuse me… I am no one’s bunch, sir.

It’s Monday and I’m ready to move the conversation another direction  Changed it to the bunch lol

On 10/7/2023 at 10:58 AM, Koolblue13 said:

The default for Alt thing was a joke. I don't think us losing out and picking high will be intentional. I think it will be because our garbage coaches losing the team.

 

And the "position flex" thing can get flushed with Rivera and his trash roster management.

 

I want a LT who locks the position down for the next 12 years. I don't give two ****s if he plays anywhere else on the line.

All things equal, your support of the Giants off season approach is in shambles and appears worse off than Washington. Washington has assets and cap flexibility immediately, no matter what takes place this season. Remain agile when not having an elite QB. 
 

It’s damn hard in the NFL without an elite QB. I know you know this, but reminder is needed from time to time on this board. Atrocious game and my foundation of support for this season is teetering, but I’ve watched NFL long enough to know it can change quickly or remain mediocre like most of the NFL lol. 
 

Your idea of aiming higher and thinking bigger in terms of front office and coach I own having complete negative bias and have grown to be a skeptic unless an elite QB is attached to it. I dislike what the Sixers have done, so that gives me some pause, but hey if Harris can help find an Embiid at QB, I’m game for playoffs in most seasons.

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In many of our humble opinions they were playing Candy Land not chess in that draft as to how they handled it.  And yes we are amateurs at this and that's what makes this more damning.  I'd say half the people at least who participate in that draft thread could have done a better job than the "brain trust" at a minimum in the context of helping Ron win in 2023.

 

 

There we go, own the position that you and the bunch could do better than Ron and company. 
 

Lets eliminate evvvvverything else that goes on behind the scenes. Even at the high school level of coaching basketball (15 player team) it can be difficult managing players and goes beyond just talent to make it all work. 
 

Not absolving blame, it’s a win or go home season for Ron. 
 

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Those Gruden defenses were majorly talent deficient. 

and….. Slooooooooooow!

Deplorable effort by the defense. The scheme and exactly who’s responsible gets into the weeds a bit for me; look forward to hearing from some people in the know.
 

My expectations coming into the season were to overwhelm opponent run games and consistently attack the QB, not happening at the rate required. We’ve seen some of this in previous couple seasons. Brutal. 

Continuity is supposed to have value. 

Wow! 

Absolute travesty what we are witnessing on defense. 

3 hours ago, Conn said:

@wit33 Rivera’s elite motivating skills on display here 

My foundation of belief suffered a crack this evening. 
 

Devastating loss.