wit33

Let’s goooo! Good post.

Is there a possibility that off-platform throwing is being conflated with the ability to throw outside the pocket or on the run? I've seen numerous throws of him delivering while on the move from outside the pocket. I'm trying to bridge a disconnect here. I agree that he doesn't utilize off-platform throws much and lacks creativity behind the line of scrimmage when extending a play side to side. He's more of a throwback in the sense that he'll sprint or drift to the sideline rather than dance around to buy time. Hes more deliberate in his movements and choices when extending plays it seems; wants to leverage his elite burst and great speed whenever possible.

Those Buccaneers highlights though 😳 He sat behind Joe and learned from Bill for five years. Imagine a bozo coach in today's game keeping him as a backup for five straight years. Russel belongs to us; his elite dual threat ability relative to his peers during that time was the primary reason he was able to have elite impact at times years 1-3 of his career. Joe Burrow is out to debunk the significance of this stat, particularly when it comes to third-down sacks. Forget your QB who opts for check-downs or throws low-percentage passes to single coverage to avoid a sack, or what was once deemed acceptable—consistently throwing it away on third down! 😄

Embrace the future; after all, guards never won NBA championships until they did. It's frustrating that he can't slide; it's a significant drawback for a QB who relies on his legs. If he were able to slide, I'd have much fewer, almost no concerns about him getting seriously injured. And it's not something that seems very easy to pick up and learn. Such a game changer if a running QB or any QB has this mastered.

Acknowledged, establishing it as a hypothesis is reasonable.

Have you delved into this to uncover any truth or insight regarding whether the styles asked him to do completely different things? What if it was actually 26.7% different and 73.3% similar footwork? I'm not sure where the truth lies, but it seems like you're grasping for anything that might bolster your campaign to support Maye.

Absolutely love his aggressiveness, and this is a HUGE positive that I'll emphasize if he's selected. I'm all for the YOLO QB, especially if it comes with an elite arm, good size, and some ability to move around. I just want to highlight that this is one of my favorite aspects about him and why I believe he has a chance to break free from the 70% zone of the average QB that we see each year in the NFL. He also appears to believe that his aggressiveness is what sets him apart, which gives me confidence that he won't yield to coaches who try to play it safe to protect their jobs and put a governor on him.

To be clear, many don’t ever fix this area of their game but do get to space of being able to operate an NFL offense. For example, Derek Carr (ExtremeSkins favorite), Alex Smith (MY favorite), Carson Wentz, Russel Wilson, Ryan Tannenhill, Kyler Murray all struggle to organize their feet while in the fire (the pocket). Yes, all for their own reasons, but some of these guys from afar appear to be great hard working family guys that you would think be able to “fix their mistakes”. Just random names off the top, many others. It’s a mutha bleep to change natural patterns, processes, body mechanics when under duress. I 100% own it’s an easier journey to improve mechanics in a comfortable setting or when plays on schedule, but 85% of the NFL can do that, nothing special—that’s competence. Development definitely matters, but I speculate if you examine Drake Maye’s high school footage, you might find that he played similarly back then. I’ve never actually watched any of his high school clips, so if someone wants to prove me wrong, I’ve given them an alley-oop. If a quarterback has been playing the same way from their youth until now, a lot of that behavior becomes deeply ingrained. When faced with pressure situations, they tend to resort to problem-solving strategies that have served them well throughout their football journey. It all boils down to natural inclination and relying on the physical traits they've developed over time. I'd bet he's been hearing this since day one on the UNC campus—for three years straight. Just to be clear, I'm not saying this to disparage him at all. In fact, I believe that over 90% of quarterbacks struggle to fix these types of mechanical issues when under pressure. The majority of NFL quarterbacks can drop back and set when the play is on time, especially if their first read is open. A three-month timeframe seems outrageous to me. Following this logic, it would imply that he should have everything fixed with the help of QBs and specialists between the end of his college season and rookie mini-camp. He might understand what he needs to work on, but expecting it to be fully addressed within just three months is unrealistic. Just to clarify, I used to think Mahomes had terrible footwork until the past year or two. So, I believe you can still be great without having the same type of precise footwork in the pocket as Dan Marino, Tom Brady, or Jared Goff. It's going to be a real battle. It's not just about wanting to fix it—every QB probably wants to fix their issues. But for him, it'll likely require being extremely dedicated to the process. The wild thing is, being dedicated and committed to the process still doesn’t work in most cases. I'm not claiming to be an authority on this; I'm just drawing from my experience as a basketball coach and my work in behavioral health. Working through these kinds of challenges takes a lot of time and effort. It's definitely not insurmountable, but addressing football trauma like this will demand a significant amount of effort to establish a healthy baseline and competence in footwork. Some QBs might go on to earn hundreds of millions of dollars, start for over a decade, and be genuinely nice individuals, yet never fully transcend beyond competence. And that's not necessarily a bad thing; competence holds immense value, especially at the right price. How's footwork not a significant issue? It's literally one of the main separators for today's pocket/mobile QBs. I must admit, someone could call me out for discounting injury concerns for Jayden Daniels, so I'm not immune to ignoring issues others don't. Decision-making is often directly tied to footwork. What you're concerned with here aligns with what you say you're not concerned with. I'm with you relating to rooting for him to throw many completions to Terry. I have no issues if they draft him and find myself in a good position of being satisfied with both options, but I personally prefer Daniels.

Impressive claim! No response necessary, but that's quite a bold assertion. Too bad he struggles with accuracy, haha. So many variables, some known and some unknown, come into play when evaluating the qualities of a great passer/processor/leader, and Maye's consistency in accuracy is questionable. I'll admit, I've grown weary of quarterbacks honing accuracy at the professional level, so I tend to favor selecting a first-round pick with exceptional dual-threat capabilities, as it immediately impacts the game under a rookie QB contract. Or guys who are deadly accurate. I'm not against Maye per se, as some have pointed out, he can impact the game with his run ability, which could aid his immediate impact and development. However, the prospect of drafting someone at #2 who struggles with accuracy is daunting, much like the concerns some have about selecting a thin dual-threat QB. Maye's getting credit for being 230, a nice little round-up. Just imagine the Daniels crew rounding his weight up to 217. LOL! 230 does sound cool though So many draft day decisions concerning QBs have been influenced by factors like size, arm strength, and the belief that accuracy issues can be fixed. This whole emphasis on age and seasons played seems like a bit of a sham to me. I believe it really boils down to whether a QB can establish competence at the position, something more QBs in the NFL do than they're given credit for. But the true test lies in whether they can rise above the average (the 70% of starting QBs) and impact games at an elite level. It seems Daniels has shown competence at the QB spot, but who knows if he'll progress beyond that? The reality is, even the most hardworking and talented QBs sometimes struggle to break out. I'm not saying it's a sure thing either way, but it feels like Daniels has the higher floor between the two. We'll need to delve deeper into each to determine their ceilings. What's the basis for your assertion that it's easy and achievable within a three-month timeframe?I strongly disagree; it's much harder than some people make it out to be.I often liken changing natural motor mechanics as a passer to adjusting shooting form in basketball. From my experience, most people struggle to change their shots, and those who succeed often take a long time. They have to be incredibly dedicated and somewhat obsessed with the process to make it happen. Moreover, those who do manage to change their shot usually believe deep down that the change is necessary; it's not something they do just because someone else tells them to. It's often overlooked how challenging it can be to convince someone that they need to change their mechanics, especially when they're poised to be a top 3 pick, have likely secured generational wealth for their family, and have experienced significant on-field success. Even individuals who come across as amiable in interviews may resist this process, and it's not necessarily right or wrong for them to do so. It's a highly nuanced and layered situation. On day one, you can establish an elite run game and dynamic play-action with Daniels at QB; that's the potential baseline. No certainties, but it looks probable to me that with the front office and coaching staff in place, they'll be able to achieve competence from day one and potentially excel in both the run and play-action game. For transparency purposes, I believe Maye has similar run qualities to Daniel Jones and his legs can be leaned on a bit to aid growth and competence as an offense.

Just stats, but the dude seems solid from the middle of the field. Yet some feel, he struggles with those areas and can't seem to throw effectively in the middle? I fully recognize that I lack a spectrum to assign value to these numbers, but I do see a significant amount of production in the middle of the field.

Easy on the supreme dual-threat quarterbacks. Also, Malik Willis appreciates being included in this list. No sugarcoating it—rebuilds are outdated in today's NFL. If your front office or coaches are resorting to that language, you're already in trouble. I expect making the playoffs in year one. Scratch, claw, and coach your way into a wild card spot. If you can't establish above average play early on, it's unlikely to happen later. Three-fourths of the NFL falls below average or just average. Maye covered all psychological aspects that I could analyze from my TV screen during the combine and other interviews I’ve watched. He appears to be a true competitor, which I believe is crucial to rival the psychologically competitive QBs in the league. If he completes all the testing and runs, it will only bolster my positive opinion of his makeup. When available, I tend to favor physical freaks at the QB spot (round 1 guys more so these days), partly because I think they don’t necessarily need to be elite processors to compete with the top QBs in the NFL. However, I’m completely on board if Washington can find that mental unicorn. Not a problem. Today is Maye's day, where those who admire him as a prospect or have a personal connection get a chance to hype up their guy. Not implying you’re saying it’s a problem though lol

Your 37 posts today refuting most positive things about JD puts you in the same category. #biased view

With all that water weight, I wonder if he’ll need to take a couple of bathroom breaks during his throwing session. Feel for him having to run around and throw the football with 10 pounds of water weight. Seriously though, it's encouraging to see him check out at nearly 6’4” and 210 pounds. Even if 210 is on the higher end, it’s a goal worth aiming for, and it seems like something he can achieve in the future. 210 pounds is more than sufficient to play QB.

Lol… They're all gone; you guys have successfully squeezed out most of the opposing views, and it's now a full-on Maye love fest around here these days. Im good with either.

Get prepared for the rise of older quarterbacks becoming more prevalent, thanks to the shifts happening in college football with the transfer portal and NIL. While it might not become the standard, many players will begin to break out in their fourth and fifth years of college after initially playing for weaker programs. We're witnessing just the early stages of this trend, but as the masses adapt, it's likely to become a popular topic in the media in the coming years. Throughout history, elite dual-threat quarterbacks have consistently elevated the performance of their offensive lines in the NFL. This impact extends beyond just passing, as they also significantly influence the effectiveness of the run game. Offensive linemen thrive on running the football and pass blocking in favorable situations. An offense built around a dual-threat quarterback, especially in an RPO system, where the quarterback can both run and make accurate throws, even at a below-average level, can start impacting wins from day one. I'm not suggesting that this approach is foolproof or that there isn't a ceiling for this type of quarterback if they fail to continue developing. However, if Daniel's were the pick, on day one, I would anticipate Washington to emerge as a top 5 rushing offense, ranking within the top 5-10 in time of possession, and be in the top 10 for turnover differential. He also could get injured week one. Roll the dice for the immediate high floor a elite ceiling potential. Those who support Daniel's genuinely care about your perspective and are open to welcoming those who are leaning 60-40 towards him. Join us on the Daniel's side, where we believe in the potential for success and growth. So, here's the game plan: We're gonna mix it up with screens, RPOs, and play action, riding on Daniel's athleticism, especially early on. But when stuck in 3rd and long situations, just gonna have to trust Daniel to pull a rabbit out of the hat until he gets his mojo going. It's all about sticking to the plan, rolling with the punches, and adjusting as Daniel hones his skills. And hey, in year one, it’s all about getting a wild card spot. All in for the wild card… that’s my expectation.

Selecting Jayden Daniel's would greatly impact the run game and offensive line performance from day one. The prospect of achieving a great to elite run game coupled with a high rate of favorable passing situations for the offensive line presents an enticing opportunity that's difficult to overlook. Honestly, I might be underestimating this aspect of Maye’s game, but it's primarily because of the comparison constraints between him and Daniels. While I don't have any particular dislike for Maye, his struggle with accuracy is a significant concern, especially considering the importance of precision for a quarterback. It's a challenging trait to be patient with unless the player possesses exceptional athleticism at the position. Take Justin Herbert, a highly regarded young quarterback, who despite his talent, has a losing NFL record four years into his career, largely due to accuracy issues. Maye's knack for extending plays enhances his potential to make an immediate impact on wins early in his rookie contract while he continues to develop, and that's something I truly appreciate. I'm fortunate to be in a position where I trust the front office's decision-making, and I'll support whatever choice they make. I'm solely referring to rushing yards here. While he's undeniably a supremely gifted runner, he often opts to pursue big plays downfield instead of taking a 6-yard rush. I anticipate his rushing yards to significantly increase in the NFL because of the premium placed on these yards and his willingness to do whatever it takes to establish a solid baseline level of play early on. All about getting to second contract for him. The era of offenses being tailored around supreme athletes at quarterback has only just begun, and it's an exciting prospect to imagine. While Super Bowls may not be the perfect metric in my opinion, I understand their significance. I'm rooting for one of these elite athletes at the position to secure a Super Bowl victory and continue to broaden the horizons and possibilities for others. Twenty years from now, it's conceivable that most starting quarterbacks will boast 4.4 to 4.6 speed, but there will always be individuals like Jokic and Doncic who defy the athletic norms, providing hope to average athletes and armchair quarterbacks alike that their sons and grandsons could also make it to the NFL or NBA. However, the majority will likely emulate players such as Giannis, Anthony Edwards, Ja Morant, LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, and so on. NBA is ahead of the NFL in most things. I couldn't care less about multiple Super Bowls; that's a fantasy world, and the likelihood of winning multiple championships is extremely slim. What I desire is sustained success and playoff appearances for a decade, allowing the chips to fall where they may in the postseason. This is the goal that the best organizations strive for, and indirectly, Super Bowl opportunities may arise from this sustained excellence. Talk about obtuse.

I've held a similar viewpoint for about 10 years, but I don't expect you to remember all the nuances I've shared, so I'll try to recap lol. I generally lean towards supreme athletes at the quarterback spot because I believe they tend to yield positive outcomes early in their rookie contracts more consistently than other quarterbacks. It doesn't necessarily require them to be elite processors or outsmart the established stars in the league. I'm aiming for a high floor and immediate ceiling, fully aware that someone like Daniel might not be playing in years 12-17 as much as Maye, and I'm fine with that. That said, I'm not discounting Maye; I'm intrigued by his moxie and ability to play off schedule. I prefer a supreme athlete with clean throwing mechanics as a starting point , knowing that the run game will likely be top 5 and the offensive line will benefit greatly from his talent from day one as a starter. I'm a sucker for that while on a rookie deal. With Maye, there are more unknown variables; we'll have to hope he's super smart, maniacal about his process, an elite processor, and can become more accurate. I'm not sure where the narrative of Daniel not making throws off schedule has come from, as his highlights are filled with these throws. I do agree that he lacks the ability to throw from different platforms. I'm not suggesting that it's right or wrong at this stage, but I continue to lean towards this preference in most years. I'll admit that I prefer Caleb Williams over Jaden Daniels, even though he's not as much of a rushing quarterback, but he’s extremely accurate.

And I'll add, engaging in drugs, drinking, partying the night before games, or missing practice or playbook study doesn't contribute positively either lol However, I agree that running ability alone isn't sufficient. Quarterbacks must also be able to provide rhythm and patterns throughout the flow of a game, navigating through chaos and adapting to unknown variables. Fortunately, effectively running the football as a team contributes immensely to overall success.

The better your quarterback is at improvisation, winging it, and making off-schedule plays after the initial play call fails, the better chance your team has at winning games. Many of these improvised plays are exactly that—making things up and winging it. Defensive coordinators have expressed concerns about these improvisational situations being the most worrisome for them. I was simply highlighting the fact that quarterbacks now approach the position from a significantly different perspective compared to 10, 20, or 30 years ago, and offensive coordinators and head coaches have relinquished a considerable amount of control relative to the past. While having a 4.3 speed can certainly contribute to winning two MVP awards, it's not a necessity. I personally appreciate elite runners at the quarterback position and fully recognize the associated limitations and risks involved. I believe Sam Howell is an elite runner, and I probably possess a similar level of speed as him. I think it was a mistake not to heavily lean on this ability to aid in his growth—it was a missed opportunity. It's not just about top-end speed, but also the overall running traits that I appreciate. I champion this style of QB, but in no way saying it’s the only way to do it. My apologies.

I understand your viewpoint, but let's not dismiss the reality that quarterbacks like Rodgers and Mahomes have shown an increasing inclination towards improvisation, which has impacted their adherence to the system over the years. While they still primarily operate within the system and make standard reads, their improvisational abilities have allowed them to break away from the prescribed playbook in certain situations, particularly when plays break down. It's not about constantly winging it, but recognizing the evolution of quarterback play in response to the demands of modern NFL defenses. Do you think the quarterback position is played similarly to 30 years ago? Was off-platform throw ability a commonly discussed term and key trait 20 years ago? Was the ability to play off schedule considered a prerequisite for incoming quarterbacks 20 years ago? Evolve, knucklehead!

I was discussing the accepted notion for quarterbacks to resort to the check down in a 3rd and long situation, conceding that the play call couldn't generate an open throw. Over the past 15 years, quarterbacks have increasingly taken control from their offensive coordinators by incorporating backyard football tactics. I've often attributed Aaron Rodgers with leading this charge in an extreme manner, similar to Steph Curry and his playing style in the NBA. It was considered a smart play to check it down short in a 3rd and long situation consistently in games much more than it is now. The F it I’m going short is often there in a 3rd and long, the defense will concede the check down often and rally to the ball short of the sticks.

I must admit, as a supporter of JD, Maye really impressed me in the interviews I watched. He exhibited several positive traits such as confidence, self-deprecation, humility, good energy, engaging banter, competitiveness, and standing firm on his identity and play style when questioned about areas for improvement. Moreover, he displayed what appeared to be a genuine desire to achieve greatness. Like that he’s multi-sport athlete, I lean towards baseball as the preferred sport for a quarterback, but love that he’s an all around athlete.

Not necessarily directed at you. I recall early concerns in the NBA about star players dominating the ball too much, potentially sidelining coaching strategies. Over the past 15-20 years, this "ball-hogging" behavior has become widely accepted. Similarly, are quarterbacks becoming ball hogs in football, and does it yield positive results? I wonder if elite QBs clashed with coordinators, particularly 5-10 years ago, regarding progressions and opting to check down for a safer play rather than riskier downfield passes or playing off script. Does this tendency result in more sacks for some quarterbacks? Not too long ago, it was widely accepted coaching wisdom for quarterbacks to progress through their reads and, if the first-down throw wasn't available, to check it down or throw it away and punt. While this approach still holds value at times, quarterbacks increasingly rely on improvisational backyard football tendencies to personally seek out first downs at a much higher rate. Much like an NBA superstar.

What are you basing this on? Your logic would allow me to compare Drake Maye to Zach Wilson, right? Or Sam Darnold? Trubisky? Or commit fully to a player with a higher probability of achieving elite impact during his rookie contract. A quarterback with exceptional running abilities drafted in the first or second round can establish a playoff foundation and offer a chance to compete against top quarterbacks in the divisional and championship rounds of the playoffs. This elite run ability QB has clean mechanics—mind blown Sign me up!

I'm thrilled about the dual threat QB discussion! Let's keep putting it out there in the universe. Manifestation at its finest! 8 year QB works for me.