Veretax

we need 6 right here!

Just now, Warhead36 said:

If wr keep using Gibby like this Id like to sign him long term. 

I need to see a bit more tahn a few short passes but yeah I feel ya on this one.


nice keeper by Howell.  get a few yards and go down safely.  maybe slide next time?

ugh 4 WR to the open side then motion back screen? SUch a garbage call but glad it worked.

I really hate we didn't get the first before the quarter ended.  NE was gassed... now they may have their breath back in their lungs.

Crowder want's a new deal..

Terry dropped that one, lucky it wasn't picked off for a TB.

Someone must have told EB that I said gibson had like less than 100 yards due to almost no touches this year.

What was that garbage back across the grain throw?  way to block down field thougH!

timing seemed off on taht route too. is it mac jones?

Just now, Destino said:

We always talk about the OL in terms of pass protection, but when is the last time you felt good about this team running the ball on 3rd and 1?

We had a 3rd and short the previous series.   the issue tehre was it was so obviously going to be a run beacuse of being near the red zone.

I don't fault Ron for taking 3 there. Its the first drive, you are away from home... take the points, and be happy you kept NE from points.

I know we got a stop there on third down, but I like that everyone seems a bit chippier on offense on this first drive.   Let's hope they can get through the next sequence.

So I had a crazy dream, that the RAms fired Sean McVay.... and we made a run at someone we thought was better and ended up settling for him, because Bill Belliczech said he'd rather retire.

That wasn't real right?

14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I wouldn't, and here's why:

 

We need blue chip players, not good players.  The most likely place to find them is at the top of the first.  You CAN find them elsewhere in the draft.  But the odds diminish with every pick.

 

I get the analytics say "more picks is better than higher picks." But I wouldn't want to trade from 8-10 to 25-32.  The level of prospect you are getting drops dramatically.  

I actually think we need both types.  The problem is noone can afford a team of legitimate and long term 1st round picks.  there are too many slots to fill.  The issue is, and has been for us, that we spent way too much talent on the DLine thinking it would be a different way to back into a championship.  It hasn't worked though. which is why young and sweat moving on is a oh well for most of us.

There are positions where teams frequently get by on good enough talent, often middle linebacker is one of those positions, sometims one of the 4-3 DT starters is that.  Guards and centers are not always top tier compared to tackles etc.  You might have one stud WR and Tight end, the rest are just guys and so on.  

THe issue we have had for a long time?

O Line play almost across the board, we might have 2 guys that are worth keeping in my estimation after this season that were starters.  Tight end? If Logan is a cap casualty we got nada.   WR we have at least 2 with Terry and Dotson.  RB We will trim by elimination to make room and so on.  see how that works?   I think there was someone a while ago I can't remember if it was BLC, but the idea was about eveyr 7 years a good chunk of the roster turns over.  You need to identity really good talent worth paying to keep so the ones you give big pay days too remain impactful in their second contract, and maybe third.    You may not be able to keep them all so you also need some servicable stop gap replacements, preferably in house or on the down swing of their pay and careers.  Our problem is we tend to over rank our own top tier FA and Draft picks and our scouting and picking have not been up to par with other teams.  If we improve this by even half, we can be in the playoff race perenially with a lot less headaches, frankly.

This is one reason I like the idea of analytics approach of Harris and Co.   Its not that analytics are the bomb, but it at least provides a reference to inspect and adapt.  They will make mistakes, every team does, hell look at Dallas, they thought they had the best OL and D in the conference.  But they have looked absolutely crappy at times when they don't get the breaks.  Great teams overcome adversity.  We are not even close to where Dallas has been, frankly.

18 hours ago, MrJL said:

 

I may be totally wrong, but I think the standard for trades are any bonuses get accelerated to the trading team's cap but the team getting the player has to pay their regular salary, unless some sort of deal is worked out. So I think we have basically nine games of rookie contract signing bonus hitting us, but Chicago and San Fran are taking their base salary

I always wondered if the way bonuses were paid mattered.

If a contract did bonuses per game rather than per season for example.

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

No idea what you just said. It's like I'm back on myspace.

and that's okay.  I saw something funny, and I added to it because I could. I think the gag has passed now. Its okay if non coders don't understand it... no worries.

On 11/1/2023 at 6:57 AM, Koolblue13 said:

What the hell happened in here?

What can I say, I get so little opportunity to write visual basic, I had to indulge, even MS has moved away from it in Azure.

23 hours ago, justice98 said:

I look forward to turning on ESPN this morning to find out how this impacts the Cowboys in some way.  lol

They spent more time talking about whether this made sense for San Francisco.  Some said it was a no brainer, some said they can't use the players they have right now, another rotational DL won't change scheme.

As for the cowboys, all they wanted to talk about was how they didn't make a run at Derrick Henry.  We aren't on their radar folks.

 

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim’s podcast

E. Major implications about Chase’s knee and longevity 

 

F. Suggested from an analytics standpoint over investing in the D line doesn’t make sense and it gives them the flexibility to build the rest of the roster especially the O line 

 

G. To justify overspending on the D line they’d have needed to play to a really high level this season abs it didn’t happen 

I wouldn't take this advice in a vaccuum. There's a time when spending on a position like DL can make an impact.  The problem is this team fundamentally has so many problems, and is great at nothing except for Tres Way.   While you might not have much change in line play with less cash spent there, cash available elsewhere could have an effect on how many snaps those DL have to be on the field.  Offense is its own defense, and EB has a playbook that can quickly shift the field, if Howell get's even a small bit more of time IMO.
 

21 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Thanks. To confirm the trade only benefit was getting us a late 3rd a year sooner and saving money this year. Seems like Chase has very little value / no demand for him. Whats it cost to move up a year for the same pick - a 5th maybe. 

 

I thought I read comp picks round calcs were dynamic based on demand contract amount etc.

They are based on a combination of what was lost compared to what we signed.  Some contracts are excluded I think.  But you have to figure we will have a few high priced FA but maybe not more than 3.   
 

21 hours ago, MartinC said:

No idea on that. I was a bit surprised they could trade a comp pick in the first place.

I’m British - if I’m insulting you that is a compliment. Usually. 

 We have circa $90M of cap space for 24 right now. Assumption is we will be active in free agency so chances are we wouldn’t have got any comp pick for Young anyway. 
 

Demand for Young seems low - unsurprisingly - so he probably won’t get a huge deal anyway from anyone either. So to your point any comp pick would have been likely lower than what we got from the 49ers as well.

Active as in lots of signings to make? Absolutely.  Active as in trying to land the top 5 people on our list at any price like Vinny C? Likely not.  I do think we spend a bit to get a real impact long term player at a position we can focus depth on draft or journeyman, but there's no reason to spend all of that Capital right now, if Howell is the deal, we will have to resign him next year to avoid the Cousins Tag and loss system.  Keeping some in the bank for when we need key resignings makes sense.  Provided we actually try to spend it when needed.

Washington Fans have gotten too use at manipulating the cap and getting whatever, I think we need impactful players more than full cap space.  


 

21 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

... truncated

My take on the contract situation:

 

Let's look at Defensive Backs first
CB Kendall Fuller is gone without extension, sign or don't sign, not sure it matters

S Kamren Curl is not under contract according to sport track in 2024.  Unless we are paying him a sizable increase, he may be gone, so now we may need a Safety somewhere.

CB Danny Johnson is one of those players I always think is getting cut, but manages to make the roster.  He's 29 next year, dead cap of 875K.  There is savings to be had there, but if we can't retain Fuller and Curl... How many DBs do you bring in the same year?  You want to spread these losses out over time I think.

Likely Staying:
CB Ben St-Juste - has 1 moer year on rookie deal.  reasonable numbers, no reason not to keep unless he doesn't fit a new defensive scheme, but it will be telling if we extend him going into the year to put off having to make a choice the following year.

CB Jartavius Martin - He's a 24 year old 2nd year player next year, rookie contracts are cheap, and he's depth if nothing else, With Fuller and Curl maybe gone, figure we see what we have in him for 2 more years minimum.

S Percy Butler - 3rd year fo rookie deal, no reason to move on yet that I've seen.

CB Christian Homes - 2 years left on deal figure he stays.

Linebackers:

LB Jamin Davis - he's still on a rookie deal, will we extend his fifth year option will be telling.  Extension means we get one more look at hime at a discount perhaps, but if we get new D Scheme, he might be trade fodder.  I see no reason to outright cut him based on cap/dead cap numbers

LB Khaleke Hudson - is 26 in his 4th year next year, and not under contract.  Did we see enough to extend him?  I can't remember which position he plays in the corp which might be a bad sign.

OLB David Mayo - Is not signed for next year, not sure he's done enough to stay, but if his asks are resonable he could be good depth in rotation.

Dline

Chase and Sweat are already gone:

DE Efe Obada - is 32 next year, and not under contract.  Could be a depth resigning but figure he will want more than what we paid him last year for any length of time.  Given we lost two ends, it could be a short prove it deal.

DE James Smith-Williams - is not signed for next year, will be in 4th year and 27.   As a depth signing maybe, but I wouldn't over pay for him when we may draft at least one DE anyways.

DE Casey toohill - also not signed for next year, but 28 next year, same as with Smith-Williams

DT Phidarian Mathis is on year 2 of his rookie deal, no reason to do anything with him yet

DT Daron Payne

DT Jon Allen

About those Tight ends:

TE Logan Thomas - has 1 year left and a dead cap of 1.750 if cut next year.   I tend to think while his injury history might open us up to doing this move, we have NOTHING else at TE on roster, I'd not get rid of him unless we get a quality FA signing and a quality TE Draft pick (and we'd still need two moer guys minimum for camp)  We may have no choiec but to keep him next year.

TE John Bates - has 1 year left on his contract as a rookie, given how week we are at this position, unless he's a complete awful scheme fit or player, we should extend him because we want at least one TE to be staying more than a year.  

TE Cole Turner - has 2 years left on his rookie deal, so that makes 2 TEs from the first three will likely be staying.  I don't know that we've seen enough from bates or turner to not look in FA or draft for better though.

Oline:

OT Charles Leno - Dead cap is 8.250 million cutting him means 3 depth guys we can't sign, and we still need an OT for depth and starter most likely.  It's true he's 15.75 million on the books, but I would not be surprised to see them extend him 2 years to spread this hit out and keep him on the roster.  It might save 7 million though if I'm reading this right.

OT Cornelius Lucas - Yup he's gone without an extension, not sure if he showed enough, but at 32 hard to imagine we keep him.  We need younger guys up front.  (so if both he and leno go that's 2 LT gone)

T Samuel Cosmi has 1 year left on a rookie deal if he's in long term plans he will likely command some salary.  If we are losing 2 other tackles his youth at least gives the prospect of growth.  But he's cheap and low dead cap number means they don't have to keep him either.

T Andrew Wyliie has 2 more years, sporttrack suggests 2025 out possibility, but could be cut for 7.833 mil deadcap, saving only 2 mill on the cap.

LG Sahdiq Charles was on IR and contract expires.  He might be extendable for a reasonable amount, depends on what the football people think of his development before the injury.   

G Nick Gates will be 29 next year, but has 2 years left, figure we hang on to him for depth at the very least could be gone in 25 easily enough.

G Trenton Scott - has 1 year left on his deal with manageable numbers.  but even at 30 his deadcap is dust.  Keep, cut or trade, it has little impact on next year

G Chris Paul - 3rd year of Rookie deal, no reason to move on though dead cap is 52k.  If we sign a lot of competition on the Oline and he's an odd man out it does nothing for dead cap calculus.

C Tyler Larsen - 32 years contract is up.  Centers might be easy to find, but he might be retained on a cheap deal if he's good depth

C Ricky Stromberg - is a rookie on a cheap deal figure he stays even if just as depth.

Sklled O
WR Curtis Samuel - I didn't realize this was last year of his deal, and he's only 27, but have we used him enough, and does he still have the giddy up?  if we can resign to a modest 3 year extension I'd be okay with keeping him, but I wouldn't over pay to do so when I can draft younger guys to fill his role.

RB Gibson - I see no reason he gets retained with his fumbling issue.  Unless he shows out down the stretch, which I doubt he's just not in future plans.  That's okay Young RBs can always be found to replace him.  (Unless we move him back to WR to replace Samuel not sure his hands are good enough though)

QB Brisset - unless we intend to resign him for 9 million or multi year as backup, he's likely gone at 31. (so we need a backup QB.)

WR Dyami Brown -I mentioned in another post how hard it really is to evaluate th receivers because of the sack count, which I credit both Howell, scheme, and OL for.  Dyami's position is the hardest, because if he's supposed to take the cap off the defense, if sam has no time to let that develop then even that role is hard to judge.  He's in a contract year next year, I see no reason to extend him early, and that may be a mistake if he balls out next year.

RB Brian Robinson - 25 year old RB who has shown some juice at times.  2 years left, figure he stays for sure unless someone comes with an offer too tempting to pass up, but I doubt that happens

WR Jamison Crowder - is he only really there as an emergency receiver and punt returner?  He's no signed for next year.

Just because I think it should be mentioned:
P Tres Way - has 1 year left, and is only 600k dead cap.  If we wanted to move on from the 34 Year old next year for any reason we can do so and not feel it.  I like Tres I don't think they do this, but all things may be on the table this offseason.  

This isn't everyone obviously but we will have a lof holes on the DL, LB and DB field to fill, and the OL needs at least 2 tackles 1 Starter likely.

Note some of these players may have shown some stuff, but if we are rebuilding and players may not show enough to extend during next year, the cause to keep them is a push.

7 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

The argument to consider moving Terry: {summary near 30s with big cap hits} ...

And then flip Allen for another 1 with Brown taking his spot? Those would eb the types of moves it'd be smart to do as a rebuilding team, but again, just throwing things out there that probably wouldn't happen. 

 

I'm likely more open to it than some becuase I really see Howell as a good, maybe very good QB but not elite and that doesn't thrill me going forward. But that's me. 

• I try to be a realist with this team, Terry is a good #1.  He's not a top ten of the league number 1, or at least is not able to produce that way right now.  That naturally leads me to consider that he could be moved as well.  However, given he is under contract for a through 2025, with 5.6 in a voidable 26 year according to sporttrac.  Sporttrac also points out that the 24/25 AAV is only around 17.5 mil the next too seasons in cash.    Personally I don't think trading Terry at end of this season makes sense, 29.3 mil of potential dead cap is a lot, and I think Terry allows you to have a leader in the WR corp with experience while looking for potential replacements.  We should always be looking for quality WR depth because the really good one's contracts often get very, very large.  The problem I have with evaluating the WR room is earlier in the season it seemed like Sam was not getting past his first or second read early on.  This likely meant Terry and whoever was second on any given route, could be crashed on by the defense because the Oline was not protecting sam enough.   Sam is not doing what Big ben used to do, he's not holding the ball forever instead of moving to the next down, he barely has any time in the pocket, which makes evaluating Terry based on statistics this season difficult at best.  (This applies to all the WRs, but more the top 3: McClaurin, Samuels, Dotson)
• As for Allen, I know he is vocal in the Locker room.  I'm not sure if that's a good vocal, or a bad vocal, but he's a player I have a hard time seeing them part with. Sporttrac has his dead cap hits at 12 and 6 mil in 24/ 25 so definitely potentially doable with a trade.  I don't think he gets cut because of performance.  He is also nearing 30.  Payne has been very good inside, and we have had some good depth, so if this is a most aggressive rebuild coming, yeah he could be on the table, I hadn't thought of that after losing both sweat and young.
• Now if I can talk about Sam Howell for a moment.  He is entering his 3rd year which means you have 2 very cheap years left.  This feels a bit like the cousins deal.  I like Sam, I'm willing to ride with him for 2 or 3 more years if he shows promise the rest of the year.  I do think he's shown glimpses of being brady like servicable, I think he can manage the game if he gets time on more than 20 some percent of the snaps.  I didn't get to see this weeks game but it felt like sam has less than 3 seconds in the pocket when we try to be in the pocket, and rolling out, just reduces that time a little due to the motion, but I like what I've seen from Sam.  This is really his rookie year (thanks Coach Rivera), I find myself inclined to wanting to see more, but I also think, while I could see them hit a gamble on a QB either in FA or the Draft again next year.  I don't feel they do this unless Sam completely craters down the stretch though.  There are too many holes on the Oline, to brin ga Rookie in there right now.  Maybe a flyer guy in the 3rd or later?
• The one player I haven't heard anyone say anything about is Jamin Davis.  He has 1 year left on a deal, and reasonable cap numbers to trade before next season.  I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't think he was ever the right fit for this defense.  Unless a new staff coming in (suspectedly), sees a way to use him, you might be able to get something for him, though not a 2nd, or 3rd Rounder, but remember we need depth at DB, note that TE Bates is also on the third year of his rookie deal, and I'm not sure we've seen enough of him to justify him long term either.  You know who else is in that position? Dyami Brown. 
• I like Dyami Brown, but given Sam has struggled to find him (6 catches on 11t argets all season?) At his position on the Depth Chart, its hard to know if this how far down the route tree he is, or if this is reflective of the OL.  But if you are going to trade him this offseason is when you do it.  I doubt we would get much for him however.  NFL.com though says he has 1 more catch but a lot fewer yards this year than all of last season, so if the OL play can improve maybe Dyami can get  double that down the stretch.
• While we are talking about the OL, have we seen enough to resign Saadhiq Charles? He's on the last year of his rookie deal, if not, there's for sure 1 Guard position that has ot be filled this offseason, just for numbers alone. (GG Braden Daniels is only 23 and with more playing time could develop maybe, but PFF doesn't have him as having a SINGLE snap yet.
• TE Brandon Dillon was signed undrafted in 2019 by the Vikings and walks without a new deal.  He's been on IR since August, for undisclosed injury. Who knows what they saw in him, but that's another injured TE on our roster.
• Another interesting player is Antonio Gibson. at RB he will be out the door without an extension.  Based on the Game logs, he's had an average of 3 rushing attempts per game, and never had 20 yards in a game.  The fall off the last two years is staggering 546 yards total last year, only 90 all season.  So there's a RB we likely aren't keeping, except on the cheap.
• I could keep going down this roster of all the players in 3rd or 4th year that just haven't done enough to say yeah I'm excited moving forward, so there is room for shake ups all around.  This offseason could be very, very, interesting.
   

7 hours ago, Conn said:

on the same day we take the first step on the road back to roster building competency, the Giants fumble organizationally

 

 

I did see the Giants traded away Leonard Williams to Seattle, not sure what this means for our game against them, but the Giants look worse than us in general, despite having beaten us once already.  Frankly, I wish they'd knock philly and dallas around a bit at least.
 

7 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

This might have been discussed (I scanned back a few pages), but wouldn't we have gotten roughly a 3rd round comp pick if CY had just left via free agency?

Someone else posted about how Compensatory picks are based on # of players and money spent in Free Agency on those players.  We will have close to half of the training camp roster to sign this offseason.  The other rub, I think Comp Picks lag a year. So we wouldn't see that compensation till 2025 draft.  I'd rather take a guaranteed lower third now then a 5th in 2025, maybe that's just me?

I don't think Terry is the issue.  I think Logan not being able to stay healthy is causing issues.  And the other tight end prospects have really not been anything great to write about from what I could tell.  I think Samuel has a niche in this offense, but not sure how much longer we keep him.  Dotson is a keeper I think, but we need 3 WR and a TE that can catch and block.  but Sam may not have time to find the 3rd WR right now because the OL has played worse than I dunno what.

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

However, it’s on Ron and Jack for continuing to give snaps to a player doing those things.  Not a good look for him no matter how he wants to play it.  He drafted him and tolerated his BS.

 

Honestly I think that's actually not correct, but let me explain.  If the attitude issues were being addressed, before the injury, or while he was still working back in, maybe, just maybe Ron would have had some panache here.  But If its true that harris says I'll give you till the trade deadline to prove these guys can all play, and that didn't happen, then Ron had little choice but to play personnel matchup issues.  Which means he couldn't sit Young without making it look like weren't actually using him.  Because if he sits young, we don't get draft pick compensation anywhere near that hight.  It sucks to bein that position, but I feel the previous owner/FO combo forced them to play young too early.

 

We have gotten as good of production out of lesser heralded players at that position.  I think its time to rethink, and to do that, we need to fix the Offense.

 

It is classic ES fatalism to assume that we will fail, no matter what GM or coach they hire, when they haven't even had a full season's crack at this yet.  I'm opting for patience here, its going to be rough, and I'm okay with that in the short term.  I'd rather take lickings, if we land real talent that can stay long term.

 

To be fair, I didn't leave the organization, i set fanhood down, and said I'll wait and see.   I think it will get better, but it may take time, we'll see if they know what they are doing, but its nice to be able to enjoy games, even when losing, without realizing it doesn't matter because of who the owner has been anymore.

I forgot, this obligatory CheckCowboysDelusion function.


 

Sub CheckCowboysDelusion()
    If Me.fansAreDelusional AndAlso isDakStillQuarterback Then
        Dim redirectUrl As String = "https://es.redskins.com/topic/194888-the-cowboys/"
        Dim methodCallMessage As String = "Just Wait, be patient, Don't Rush it, Don't Push it. what can go wrong, will go wrong!"
        ask.StephenASmith(methodCallMessage)
        Throw New JerrahKnowsWhatHesDoingException("Yes, Dallas and its fans still think they are winning the Super Bowl this year. Do they realize Dak Prescott is still their Quarterback?", redirectUrl, methodCallMessage)
    End If

    ' Return True if the conditions were not met
End Sub