skinny21

No, it was from the article about Daniels using it (a German team testing/building it in conjunction with Daniels’ usage/feedback). Or rather, not that I know of. I hear you, but I’m talking about imputing pro defenses. The idea behind inputting their college offense (for evaluation purposes) is just to take that learning variable out. I haven’t heard of any other qb (college or otherwise)) using it - at least that company’s development was new/in progress, but that’s all I know. Obviously I don’t know what the Impact will be, but the potential is there to be completely transformative IMO.

Slightly off topic, but I just can’t get out of my head how transformative the VR thing could be to both quarterbacks and to teams evaluation of qbs. For evaluation purposes, connect the VR to a screen so coaches can see what the qb sees, input their college offense, and then throw in various defensive looks to test their processing/decision-making. And for qbs, the ability to essentially play full field without needing other players present - how massive is that? Eventually you can microchip balls and put these guys solo on a practice field. Better yet, give coaches control to set/redo plays - “try it again but with a bit more touch”, “this time without the heel click”, etc. Total game changer IMO, and those are just some off the cuff (relatively) basic uses. I’m betting this explodes in the next several years.

Frankly, I’m pretty much with you. The difficulty I have with truly landing smack dab in alignment with you is (my) lack of information, and the fact that many people who should (at least in theory) have a lot more information than I tout him. As an example, one of my concerns was his lack (or at least paucity) of middle field throws. But then I hear Jay Gruden saying the offense didn’t have a lot of middle field throws, and that those are some of the easiest throws to make, so he wasn’t worried about it. Is Jay right? I have no clue, but it makes some sense anyway. If I’m taking a Devil’s Advocate stance on the p2s ratio and the low number of throws after breaking the pocket, a few bits of information and some theories/questions play into for me. With fewer routes to the middle of the field, was this to give Daniels more space to navigate when he ran? Was he coached to run (as Herm coached him to at ASU)? Was his low number of pressures in part because defenses didn’t want to risk attacking him (ie played to keep him in the pocket more often)? Do defenses playing contain effect p2s ratios? Did his team practice broken plays? What does the tape say about his improvement on the ps2 ratio this year? Purely better oline play? Was a 2nd year in the system a factor? Did the VR thingy help his play/processing speed? Just so many things I don’t know. Regarding throwing with anticipation, was this a timing offense (my understanding is no)? Did the offense face mostly zone (not wanting to turn their backs on Daniels) and that, coupled with talented pass catchers reduced the need to throw with anticipation? How hard is it to improve in this area? Doesn’t seem the “experts” are too concerned about this facet, though I can’t recall hearing why exactly. To me, there are 4 major selling points with Daniels - his running, his accuracy at all levels, his ability to go through progressions (this is mainly based on others takes), and his marked improvement in certain areas. I might throw in his openness to working with the VR and changing his work habits - he seems very willing to be coached and to put in the work. The big question, for me, is how well can our FO gauge his processing ability. If they believe he has a big leg up on this facet, I suppose I can see how they might choose to pick him. Personally, the red flags and question marks with Daniels, vs the number of things Maye has going for him (and small number of flags) make Maye the fairly easy choice for me.

I think the one thing that gives me hope that these execs/coaches might be wrong is this staff has the luxury of time. And when you add to that 1) the insanely low bar this franchise has set, and 2) the positive cap situation going forward (and additional draft picks this year), we could see substantial improvement from the team even if (big if) our young qb takes 2-3 years to really start realizing their potential.

Given my take on traits Quinn et al might be looking for, I’m curious who in the 2nd-5th fits: FS - good-very good ball skills, decent-good tackler, not afraid to stick their nose in DE - relentless/great motor, is a “dawg”, is either good at run stuffing/setting the edge or a good rusher (obviously both would be ideal). Anything you’d add/argue with in terms of traits these coaches might be after?

Is it just me or does Daniels have a habit of kicking his front foot out when throwing? Not saying all the time, or even a majority of the time, but I feel like I saw it a lot. Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, but if I’m right, it seems to me that would have a semi-significant impact on velocity (IMO, it automatically opens his hips/shoulders and therefore reduces torque). Again, if I’m right about that, on one hand, perhaps he needs (or at least could use) more work on his mechanics than we think. On the other hand, if breaking that habit results in an improved ability to drive the ball more consistently, that would be a bonus. (I feel like I must be crazy as I haven’t noticed anyone else mention this) Edit: Just rewatched his Alabama game and each time he kicked that foot out it was on short throws to his left…

While I’ve defended Terry and Jahan on the poor separation numbers (lot of surrounding factors), given their strengths are speed and route running, IMO they are better suited to intermediate/deep routes. So I kinda think it makes the sense for us to add a guy that can work underneath. Obviously we could stand to add some size to our receiving corp as well. Of course it depends on when these types might be available, and I’d add that I would give an edge to a prospect that excels in RAC/YAC. Maybe we wait on a slot guy until later in the draft (McCaffrey for instance), and add a bigger guy (ala Legette) early? Point being, I think I’d prioritize quick separation, size, RAC, and then deep speed, in that order, with the caveat that decent hands (at a minimum) are a must.

I think he’s referring to those who feel we “have” to trade up for a tackle (or “reach” for one at 36/40).

I think there’s an element of 1) the cyclical nature of qb evaluation - it starts mostly positive when the college season ends, then analysts delve deep into the negatives as the draft gets closer, and 2) having 3 (or 4 if you wanna include McCarthy) guys bunched closely together at the top - there’s a lot of nitpicking going on to parse them, and 3) related to both of the above points, many have landed on their preference and subsequently spend time tearing down the other prospects to make “their guy” look better. General consensus (as I’m sure you know, but it bears repeating given your concerns), is that even with so much negativity going around, this is a really good class, particularly the top prospects. Of course there are some outliers claiming one or more of these top guys aren’t 1st rounders (or worse). And you’re right (in your other post) that it’s a roll of the dice to an extent. Going off (faulty) memory, hit rate is something like 60% where we’re drafting. If we factor in that most believe Daniels and Maye would be the 1st qb taken in many recent drafts, seems like we’ve got a better than 60% chance of getting this right. Doesn’t hurt that we (may) finally have a staff in place that can develop/support a young qb.

I’m glad Hudson got a chance at some real PT at the end of last year. Played a lot of snaps in the final 4 games and accrued 52 total tackles, 30 solo, 2 PDs, 4 TFLs (along with a sack he got earlier in the year). Obviously extrapolation is a faulty means of judgement, but 200+ total tackles would have lead the league I believe (Wagner was 1st with a combined 183). Will be interesting to see what comes of his time with NO. And randomly, while looking at stats I noticed St Juste lead the team in PDs with 17. Surprisingly, Forbes was 2nd with 11 and Fuller was 3rd with just 9.

So what exactly did you do at that store in Missoula? Scratch that, I don’t wanna know.

I’ve been operating under the assumption Martin would be our slot corner (which may be incorrect), and of course St Juste can move inside as well. So I’ve been leaning boundary corner over wr in the 2nd. But again, I could be way off base. I’d be down with doubling up on OT in the 3rd (assuming we take one in rd 2). Would love to land Sinnot or Stover there as well - let them learn under Ertz for a year.

The key is to stay away from bridges… (it’s ok, I hate myself too)

And even if they work out on their own, don’t sweat it, the team can still chase the dream….😉

Personally, I’d add guys like Pearsall, Legette, Franklin, Roman Wilson, Polk, Burton and Thrash (and probably others I’m forgetting) to your group. Which likely means one or more fall to the 3rd. In other words, I’m not opposed to nabbing one in round 2, but I’m ok waiting too. Two things jump to mind when looking at this receiving group - 1) we have 3 guys that can play in the slot, so my temptation is to focus on an outside receiver. Number 2 is a bit more complicated… last year Terry and Dotson got dinged heavily in terms of separation. Not sure how much is their fault vs scheme, qbing, play calling, etc. I believe Dotson’s short area quickness testing wasn’t great relative to his speed/route running. Worth considering that I think both of them are better at the intermediate routes than short routes - the longer ones take advantage of their route running IMO. This year we’re replicating some of the same issues - concerns about pass pro (from our tackles) forcing more quick throws, having an inexperienced qb in the backfield, and implementing a new scheme. Long story short, I’m uncertain whether to focus more on which of these draftees can win/separate quickly. Both of those factors narrow the field in terms of fit, which could alter how comfortable the FO would be waiting on addressing receiver. The ES Mock highlights the potential if we trade down in the 2nd. With the obvious caveat that the draft won’t shake out like the mock, trading down 5-15 spots from 40 (let alone 36) still leaves some/most of the next tier of tackles on the board, DEs Kneeland, Trice, Braswell, and Isaac, wrs Pearsall, Franklin, Worthy, Coleman, Corley, etc, some of the top safeties, some quality corners, etc. No guarantees we can find a trade partner of course, but I imagine having the two 2nd rounders increases our chances of finding one.

Maye’s upside is tantalizing. Not only because he’s relatively young/inexperienced, with all of the tools, and generally correctable flaws, but what happens when he gets 2+ years in the same system? What happens when he’s supported by a quality oline and pass catchers? Conversely, are we going to be able to field a better oline and pass catchers for Daniels than what he’s already had (in relation to the defenses LSU played against)? Now with that said, I think it’s definitely possible that some of his flaws can be improved significantly with coaching and further experience. In other words, I don’t think it’s a guarantee that he’s at, or nearly at his ceiling, particularly when you factor in his growth trajectory to this point. To your point though, if I’m picking/betting on which of these two I think has more growth potential ahead of them, I’m going with Maye, and that potential is quite tantalizing. I too would be happy with either of them. Actually, let me amend that - I will be happy with either of them, but the behavioral training that’s come with being a Washington fan is going to have me waiting for the shoe to drop if we select Daniels due to his frame/running style. Gonna take some time to retrain my brain… if it’s not already too late.

Yep. Given how they’ve addressed other spots, I have to think the FO is well aware too. The good news (IMO) is 1) it’s a deep OT draft, 2) we’ve got a lot of picks (we could potentially land 2 OTs), and 3) we don’t have to “solve” the position this year - its about the future for this team. I’m not high on Lucas (though he’s been a quality swing tackle) or Wylie (who is?), but they, along with our other tackles, at least offer a baseline of competition for the two spots. Kliff’s gonna have to earn his keep protecting/helping our starting tackles.

Good post. I’m seeing much the same, though to fair, I’m only going off mocks/analysts, so I could see your scenario playing out. I think the first question is what happens with the qbs - McCarthy, Penix and Nix. If they all go prior to 36, better chance someone drops to us. And conversely, if one of them is still there at 36 (or 40), that may increase our chance of being able to trade down. Then there’s the idea there are always instances of a prospect going earlier than “expected”. Obviously not a lot of wriggle room with only 35 players going before our 2nd rounder, but it’s certainly possible. And then of course it depends on how our board looks - someone we see in that next tier might be higher for our FO. Perhaps they’d love to land Kneeland, Braswell or Trice at 36, or one of the tackles, corners or receivers. Heck, maybe even a safety. Probably the overriding thought I have though is my sense that our FO (driven by Quinn’s philosophy) is going to be focused on a prospect being able to do (at least) one thing particularly well, and that creates an unknown variable for us fans. So we might push a guy down because of a negative trait, but they know they can coach/scheme around it. It’s going to be a fascinating draft for sure.

Yeah, it was a good breakdown. Liked a lot of the ball placement, but you’re absolutely right about pulling the trigger earlier (on the comeback routes in particular). Seems to me those should be some of the easiest to throw with anticipation - you’re only having to worry about the corner’s depth, vs a backer or safety bracketing - and the fact he’s doing that (multiple times in the same game) in his 5th year… that concerns me.

Out of curiosity, is your “ok” a concession that the analysts/ex-qbs are correct that he’s a fast processor? I have zero take on his ability/tendency to manipulate defenders (or his processing speed), but I have to question your last two statements. First, I haven’t seen anyone use any qualifier like “constantly”. Second, he still threw the ball 320+ times. I’d think that’s a reasonable sample size to judge whether he manipulates defenses. Again, I’m not defending his ability on that front, and I’ll add that I think one of your implied points - that running so often muddies an evaluation - is both fair and a bit of a red flag for me. So would I be correct that your stance would be that the aforementioned analysts/ex-qbs can’t parse that info? I found it interesting that early on, Quinn seemed to emphasize qbs connecting on the deep ball (I’m trying to recall what else he said), whereas at the breakfast interview, he talked about what’s going on between the ears - as though he’s been learning from Peters (and Kliff?) more about evaluation. Maybe someone with a better memory could flesh this out…

Was watching Top Chef last night and a dude is in front of the judges talking about editing his food and says “I twerked”. The room went dead still, everyone staring at him in confusion, and then he says “I mean I tweaked!”. Damn autocorrect indeed, lol

I love puns, so I was scrambling to find some way to contribute. Decided I’d play it straight and just share my opinion: I’ve always felt egg puns aren’t all they’re cracked up to be, especially if you have to try too hard. Then again, as a dad of 3, I’m a sucker for low brow puns (ones meant to go over easy enough for a kid to get them). Shell I go on? (That’s actually a rhetorical question - pretty sure I’ve already done irreparable harm to my street cred, so I’m not going to whisk it)

I’ve moved Turner to the back burner as well, not necessarily writing him off, but no expecting anything either. The one thing I’ll say is that while Thomas was a vet (and a good dude), I think Ertz likely brings a bit more knowledge of the position, so its possible that leadership/mentorship, plus Turner going into his 3rd year improves his chances of breaking out a bit. I’m not holding my breath of course. And those same things apply to Rogers as well, who has the added benefit of a bit more athleticism than Turner. All of that said, I can’t see this staff being content with this group. The good news is that Ertz/Bates are a decent 1/2 in terms of their roles. Gotta be difficult going into a 3rd offense in 3 years for Bates/Turner/Rogers, but hopefully the transition will be a little smoother for them as they’ve seen/learned more from their time in the league to date.

That gives new meaning to the phrase “as is”…

I gotta say, as a ‘neutral observer’, it’s pretty wild reading the Daniels stuff. Like, I’m not sure how he’s even draftable given the things I’ve read on here - he can’t protect himself running, he can’t throw on the run, he can’t throw over the middle, he can’t throw with anticipation, he needs receivers that can get wide open, he’s gonna get destroyed if he gets hit, he has low football IQ when running, and he can’t slide… how is the league so clueless about this guy? For me, his frame is skinny and it’s going to remain that way. He just doesn’t have the build to add enough weight to remove fears of him getting hurt, even if he can somehow add 5 or 10 pounds of muscle (which is debatable). It is what it is. With that said, I have trouble with the conclusion that he must have added 15-20 pounds of water weight (no peeing!). Why didn’t he weigh at the combine then? Who knows, maybe he weighed himself at 208 before arriving and decided he’d hold off until his pro day. When his pro day weight is the exact same as his listed playing weight, I’m not sure how we arrive at “Occam’s razor says he drank 20 pounds of water just before a throwing session”… Now if he starts projectile vomiting in the middle of his throwing session, I might change my tune. Why didn’t he run the 40 then? Who knows, maybe he didn’t want to risk pulling a hammy. Maybe he knew teams have the in-season GPS info and put more weight (no pun intended) on that. Maybe he didn’t want to spend time training for the 40 knowing spending the time on actual qb stuff was more important.