grego

I actually think MJ didn't care much about social issues. (that, or his opinion differed from the popular narrative ) I'm sure there have been some who were silent due to financial considerations.

its interesting that you put it that way, because this seems to be the thinking of anyone who has been remotely critical of the methods- but not necessarily the message- of protest or of BLM, which is really incredible.

i dont get the CBS sports channel with my fios subscription (but i do get about every other POS channel that i dont watch). **** me. any alternatives?

it was for the AAFCU- air academy federal credit union. understandable that they did it. military dont play.

ok, I see the statement by the spirit now. guess I didn't link the teams use of the word with 9/11.

I know its sunday, I just don't know what it had to do with the team playing the anthem early.

definitely not discounting that. like, I could see if the owner of the Spirit said '4 days before 9/11, I don't want someone disrespecting the flag', but her bringing up 9/11 in response to her not getting the chance to protest is an odd thing. maybe I'm missing something, like she was responding to the statement by the team or something.

why did she bring up 9/11? I don't get it.

Dog- i think you bring up some interesting points. i have a couple of questions- not necessarily for you, just more of the thinking out loud variety. first, i wonder if the 'caught vs no caught perpetrator' thing has been dissected already. i did a couple of quick searches having to do with accuracy in crime statistics and couldnt find anything, but theres gotta be something out there. also, i've seen studies that talk about victim reporting, where the victims give a description of the perp, rather than it being a crime with no witnesses, and how its obviously more accurate for this sort of thing. i wonder if the stats weve been looking at are of that variety. second, i wonder if this is one of those things like a poll, where you get a certain random sampling of a small percentage of people, yet statistically it will be very close to what you would get if you were to survey an entire population. i have seen criticisms of studies, such as the roland fryer study, http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw which talk about police department reporting- since its voluntary, police departments are only potentially sharing what they voluntarily want to share. also, its only a few police departments- houston being the biggest one- so, is it representative of policing in the US as a whole? anyway, good stuff. if anyone has any more info on this, please post.

while we're trying to contextualize raw numbers- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The facts are these: Last year, the police shot 990 people, the vast majority armed or violently resisting arrest, according to the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings. Whites made up 49.9 percent of those victims, blacks 26 percent. That proportion of black victims is lower than what the black violent crime rate would predict. Blacks constituted 62 percent of all robbery defendants in America’s 75 largest counties in 2009, 57 percent of all murder defendants and 45 percent of all assault defendants, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, even though blacks comprise only 15 percent of the population in those counties. In New York City, where blacks make up 23 percent of the city’s population, blacks commit three-quarters of all shootings and 70 percent of all robberies, according to victims and witnesses in their reports to the NYPD. Whites, by contrast, commit less than 2 percent of all shootings and 4 percent of all robberies, though they are nearly 34 percent of the city’s population. In Chicago, 80 percent of all known murder suspects in 2015 were black, as were 80 percent of all known nonfatal shooting suspects, though they’re a little less than a third of the population. Whites made up 0.9 percent of known murder suspects in Chicago in 2015 and 1.4 percent of known nonfatal shooting suspects, though they are about a third of the city’s residents. Gang shootings occur almost exclusively in minority areas. Police use of force is most likely in confrontations with violent and resisting criminals, and those confrontations happen disproportionately in minority communities. But the Black Lives Matter narrative has nevertheless had an enormous effect on policing and public safety, despite its mendacity. Gun-related murders of officers are up 52 percent this year through Aug. 30 compared to last year. The cop assassinations are only a more extreme version of the Black Lives Matter-inspired hatred that officers working in urban areas encounter on a daily basis. Officers are routinely surrounded by hostile, jeering crowds when they try to conduct a street investigation or make an arrest. Resistance to arrest is up, officers report. Cops have been repeatedly told by President Obama and the media that pedestrian stops and public order enforcement are racist. In consequence, they are doing less of those discretionary activities in high-crime minority communities. The result? Violent crime is rising in cities with large black populations. Homicides in 2015 rose anywhere from 54 percent in Washington, DC, to 90 percent in Cleveland. In the nation’s 56 largest cities, homicides rose 17 percent in 2015, a nearly unprecedented one-year spike. In the first half of 2016, homicides in 51 large cities were up another 15 percent compared to the same period last year. http://nypost.com/2016/09/06/the-lies-told-by-the-black-lives-matter-movement/ that's a good point. I had read in another article that the numbers for some of these stats were incomplete.

i think you bring up some good points, gamebreaker. as much as ive been critical of the methodology, if some good can come out of this- i e, more accountability, more body cameras (which is already happening), then thats good. as far as the Castille case, there are certainly left and right wing sites that have their version of events, and i'm always skeptical of both. i will say, anyone who does what his girlfriend does in front of their kids is a pretty bad person. this is not to say the shooting was or was not justified- just that if her word is what were going on, i'd hope for something better. (and i dont necessarily trust the police, btw.)

I think its just a statement of this being not such a black and white issue, for lack of a better term. there is so much gray area when it comes to police shootings. one problem is the brown shooting. its still often referenced as an example of unjustified excessive force. this just causes more distrust and discourages communication between the sides. people form opinions very quickly and tend to not change them. we'll hear of a police shooting, form our opinion before getting all the facts, then find out the guy attacked the cop, or the cop was black, or Asian, or the perp pointed a gun at the police, etc. there are 1,000 police shooting per year. we are practically fed a tiny fraction of those and asked to believe that they are representative of all police shootings. I think both sides have been guilty of simplifying the issue, but its really not simple. listening more and speaking honestly about each case would help that, I think.

I think theres a tendency to do that when communicating via social media these days. you cant say a person is an idiot without it being assumed that theres a motive for saying so outside of a few examples of him making some really questionable choices. much like you cant criticize one or two specific aspects of a movement or cause without it being said that youre against the cause in general- as if your criticism is just a front for your underlying bigotry. I think its perfectly reasonable to say that Kaep has shown a tendency toward questionable decisions while totally supporting his right to kneel. and, its reasonable to say there are otherwise intelligent people who may be blind to how some of their actions appear. (this has been said of Robert Griffin for years)

i feel the same. lots of similarities in terms of the difficulty of discourse.

I basically live by that bolded part. lol. ya, this guy isn't a dumb guy, but just has this sarcastic, I'm smarter than you, paranoid disposition that he seems to filter everything through. he actually told me recently that it wasn't planes that hit the world trade center, it was missiles. (not even planes with bombs and/or missiles....just missiles). you have to be in a hell of a place to believe that.

that fits, cuz I think libertarians are cool with witches, warlocks, druids and pagans. to each his own, and all.

I have friend (acquaintance, really) with whom I cant walk outside without him looking up and saying 'look, chemtrails'. huge sandy hook, 9/11 conspiracy theorist. really crazy stuff.

I think we are now entering the third stage of 'offense'. this is where the original offended party has now managed to offend the original offending party with the fact that they are offended because they believe they should not be offended in the first place. occasionally- but not always- this is followed by stage 4, where the original offended party becomes offended by the original offenders subsequent offense. good news is, that means its almost over.

this sounds like something I can dig into- at least the second part-I have no doubt that the government has engaged in this behavior before. I'm trying to understands Kaep sitting and linking it with something more current. the sentencing thing may be something.

are you kidding? what have I said that makes me willfully obtuse?

you cant possibly believe that the kaep and trump stances are the same. I refuse to believe that you actually believe that, let alone believe that that's an example of white privilege.

In what way has the government engaged in it? (not challenging you, just trying to get info) True enough about the home environment. I dated a teacher before. Some parents couldn't be less involved. Family is everything.

can you define what you mean by this? (just for clarity)

'systemic', as in, the government? not to get off topic, but how do we feel about school vouchers?

Statistics need context. (and I really don't want to go down this rabbit hole, even though the numbers should be looked into... I just don't have the energy) Why are blacks x number of times more likely to involved in a police shooting? Young black males (age 15-35 or so) make up approximately 3 % of the population, yet account for at least half of all violent crime. Given this, one might wonder how the number of shootings involving black males isn't actually higher. Good discussion on that and statistics here starting at 1:20 (one hour, twenty minutes, that is) or so. Good point