grego

That may be true (that's my impression, at least. I don't know the actual numbers) I don't know how much time the nra or storm front spends on false flags, but I did Google san Bernardino and Fort hood along with infowars. Sure enough, there's a conspiracy, false flag theory about them. https://www.infowars.com/major-hasan-of-fort-hood-a-patsy-in-a-drill-gone-live/ https://www.infowars.com/san-bernardino-false-flag-multiple-witnesses-reported-three-white-men-shooting/

That actually sounds right and I was about to agree (partly cuz the one guy I know who is a conspiracy nut is also a bigot), but I remembered the Vester Flanagan shooting which was the first time I heard about false flags (as opposed to regular conspiracy theories). You can Google the fort hood shooting, San Bernardino, Orlando, anything. Literally every shooting that involves more than one victim is a false flag, apparently. Curiously, it seems false flag truthers are more into government conspiracy theories than race politics.

I gotcha. I'm saying that's keaps statement about showing pride in the flag, combined with other statements and stances, made it muddy (predicto talked about this a few pages back). We'll disagree that things haven't changed much in 49 years, but agree that there is work to be done.

I don't love that meme. I've said it before, but keap said why he knelt and talked specifically about the flag. Police brutality is part of it, but not all of it, according to him. Even Jim Brown took it as disrespecting the flag. The last line seems to say if you took it as Brown did, then you're a racist? Or participating in racism, or something along those lines which is a bit presumptuous. I'm fully in support of anyone's right to kneel for the anthem. I just don't like the mischaracterization of the motives with regards to keap and the assigning of motives of his critics.

The first week that I took him to go outside to pee, I let him off a leash to sniff around and he just took off running away (I did this only because he's not that fast and I knew I could catch him if he ran). He was so scared and didn't trust anyone. He still actually growls at my wife after all this time, and she loves him anyway. Early on, I was getting changed and I took my belt off my pants and he was a few feet from me and he yelped when he saw belt swing down even though it was a few feet from him. Broke my heart thinking what he must have gone through. Now, he goes nuts if I get up from the couch to go to the kitchen. That dog doesn't leave my side.

wait a sec. you have a dachsund mix named taco???? wtf? about 4 years ago, my wife wanted to get a third dog. i agreed on the condition that it was the biggest disaster in the pound- old, lots of problems, ugly preferred, etc. so, we got an old dachsund/chihuahua mix. they didnt know what his name (or age) was since he was found wandering the streets, so the pound named him 'tokyo'. we decided (partly cuz of the chihuahua connection) to shorten his name to 'taco'. (and i thought that was original. til today, dammit ) on a sad note, hes had alot of problems lately- collapsed trachea, probably early stages of cancer, hes almost totally blind and deaf and we may have to put him down sooner rather than later,

this was one of those moments where youre driving down the road, get lost in a deep thought, and the next thing you know, youre in another town, miles away. i can definitely see how its not related to the anthem topic, and i'm not sure it ever hit me that it was in the anthem thread, as we were talking about one thing and then there we were, all in rooney land. definitely not an intentional diversion, though that is no excuse. i'll try to pay attention to where i am better. promise! didnt mean to diss the site rules. i think a lot of leeway regarding conversation is a good thing too. lately, when i read posts and reactions on the board, it gets a bit depressing seeing everyone talking past one another. sometimes its as if we arent interesting in discussing the issue and finding some common, unifying ground as much as we are interested in beating each other over the head. its also frustrating because we keep saying 'were not talking about the issue' meaning, police brutality, reform, etc, as we keep posting about the kneeling of the anthem and what we think about it. i'm thinking 'soooo....are we going to talk about it?'. and i thought the only way to really have a chance of any meaningful discussion, maybe as an experiment (or, brilliant idea, which is what i was really thinking) would be to try to have a thread with some specific goals and guidelines so we could make some progress on the issue. it probably wouldnt have gone well, admittedly. anyway, thanks for the heads up.

i would agree with some of those points, and others, there is probably room for debate. all slavery is bad, but some was worse than others is true, but, if i said it, well, i couldnt. i think there are good arguments as to who did what worse, but, ultimately we'll agree that its all oppression. (i would add that the degree of oppression varies greatly upon who is telling it.) i think any time you stand strongly against something (talking about rauf now), it is reasonable that people will say "ya? well, what about the plank in your own eye"? i think comparing what rauf was standing against with the ideology that he chooses (youve said you are familiar with this), one could argue very easily that the finger is pointed one way.

someone should start a topic specifically about an issue. but there should be ground rules- (here are some that generally derail conversation) no ad hominems. debate the topic, dont attack the poster. no insults, veiled or otherwise. no trolilng. no assuming the worst intentions about a poster an acknowledgement of the valid points from the 'other' side a commitment to find the right answer, which includes and acknowledgement that nobody knows all of the answers and a commitment to understand someone elses viewpoint any other suggestions?

maybe the better question is, 'when do you end the rooney rule'? there is some resentment about hiring preferences- to what extent, i dont know if its been polled. it all depends on who you ask.

i gotcha. i must be getting smarter. i didnt even have to break out a dictionary this time.

i would agree if i granted that kaeps kneeling was 'just' about the issue of police brutality rather than a more grand political statement. as it relates to keaps protest, i think its important to try to understand why people have a problem with it as well as why people dont have a problem with it. but i get that we've just about exhausted the castro bashing. its all out there, and we can move along. and move along, i will..

saw that. it was awesome. unbelievable gesture, especially for a guy on his comparatively low salary.

heres why- -hes in miami -its hours after castros death -keap is synonymous with BLM who is unapologetic in their support and praise of castro -there are about a million t shirts featuring malcolm x that he could have worn. google 'malcolm x t shirt'. -when pushed, he offers praise of cubas literacy rate (which is information reported by....cuba) these are coincidences?

Llevron, what of a player showed up to a press conference with a t-shirt portraying bin laden or Hitler in a positive light? That's how Cuban refugees feel about Castro.

the t shirt should be put in context. what you call petty, refugees from cuba might call horrifyingly offensive. check out the exchange between keap and a cuban reporter- Can you understand why some people in South Florida were concerned about wearing a shirt of Fidel Castro? A dictator who oppressed people. Can you understand the concern? “I can understand the concern, but for me what I said was that was a historic moment for Malcolm. I’m not going to cut out pieces of Malcolm’s life. In 1960 when they met in Harlem, that was a historic moment. That’s something that I will always be true to what Malcolm was, what he represented because I’m not going to cut out history.” Did you find it ironic, any thoughts that just after this controversy happened with you getting in this discussion about [Fidel] Castro with a reporter that you end up in Miami when Fidel Castro passes away? “Very unique circumstances. It’s hard to really say that it was a coincidence or whatever it might be. Once again, it’s very unique circumstances.” Finally, is there anything you’d like to clarify about the [Fidel] Castro situation? He passed away, right now do you want to clarify your thoughts on that? “I feel like I did clarify them. I believe in the investment in education. I believe in the free universal healthcare, which we don’t have here, and I also believe in the positive thing he did in helping end apartheid in South Africa. How much do you worry about with the [Fidel] Castro situation and also not voting, people losing track of the message you were trying to put forth when this all began? “Well, I don’t worry about people losing track of what the message is. I’ve been true to the message. I’m against systematic oppression. Voting is a part of that system, and I’ve talked at length about why I believe that.” as far as keap and BLM, heres an article from huffington post about BLMs statement following castros death- Upon hearing of the passing of Fidel Castro, Cuba’s dictator-emeritus, leftist politicians and celebrities wasted no time taking to social media to sing their sweet elegies for the Western Hemisphere’s most notorious tyrant. Yet these tribute tweets, brimming with unwarranted admiration, soon encountered fierce resistance. There were those who quite sensibly pointed out Castro’s litany of human rights abuses. To speak approvingly of Castro, to eulogize him through euphemism, is to sanitize the legacy of a man who, in addition to committing egregious human rights violations, also tanked one of Latin America’s most historically prosperous economies... Castro: is responsible for the murders of anywhere between 10,000–100,000 men, women, and children (some on live television) arrested and tortured thousands of political prisoners in jails and labor camps limited his people’s freedoms of expression, association, assembly, movement, the press, and due process wrecked one of the strongest economies in all of Latin America precipitated food shortages due to poor regulation trained, funded, and supported countless terror groups across the globe triggered a mass exodus that has continued well into the 21st century . http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cuban-lives-matter-how-blms-embrace-of-castro-lets_us_58408687e4b0cf3f6455880f heres the statement itself- Lessons from Fidel: Black Lives Matter and the Transition of El Comandante We are feeling many things as we awaken to a world without Fidel Castro. There is an overwhelming sense of loss, complicated by fear and anxiety. Although no leader is without their flaws, we must push back against the rhetoric of the right and come to the defense of El Comandante. And there are lessons that we must revisit and heed as we pick up the mantle in changing our world, as we aspire to build a world rooted in a vision of freedom and the peace that only comes with justice. It is the lessons that we take from Fidel. From Fidel, we know that revolution is sparked by an idea, by radical imaginings, which sometimes take root first among just a few dozen people coming together in the mountains. It can be a tattered group of meager resources, like in Sierra Maestro in 1956 or St. Elmo Village in 2013. Revolution is continuous and is won first in the hearts and minds of the people and is continually shaped and reshaped by the collective. No single revolutionary ever wins or even begins the revolution. The revolution begins only when the whole is fully bought in and committed to it. And it is never over. Revolution transcends borders; the freedom of oppressed people and people of color is all bound up together wherever we are. In Cuba, South Africa, Palestine, Angola, Tanzania, Mozambique, Grenada, Venezuela, Haiti, African America, and North Dakota. We must not only root for each other but invest in each other’s struggles, lending our voices, bodies, and resources to liberation efforts which may seem distant from the immediacy of our daily existence. Revolution is rooted in the recognition that there are certain fundamentals to which every being has a right, just by virtue of one’s birth: healthy food, clean water, decent housing, safe communities, quality healthcare, mental health services, free and quality education, community spaces, art, democratic engagement, regular vacations, sports, and places for spiritual expression are not questions of resources, but questions of political will and they are requirements of any humane society. Revolution requires that the determination to create and preserve these things for our people takes precedent over individual drives for power, recognition, and enrichment. A final lesson is that to be a revolutionary, you must strive to live in integrity. As a Black network committed to transformation, we are particularly grateful to Fidel for holding Mama Assata Shakur, who continues to inspire us. We are thankful that he provided a home for Brother Michael Finney Ralph Goodwin, and Charles Hill, asylum to Brother Huey P. Newton, and sanctuary for so many other Black revolutionaries who were being persecuted by the American government during the Black Power era. We are indebted to Fidel for sending resources to Haiti following the 2010 earthquake and attempting to support Black people in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina when our government left us to die on rooftops and in floodwaters. We are thankful that he provided a space where the traditional spiritual work of African people could flourish, regardless of his belief system. With Fidel’s passing there is one more lesson that stands paramount: when we are rooted in collective vision when we bind ourselves together around quests for infinite freedom of the body and the soul, we will be victorious. As Fidel ascends to the realm of the ancestors, we summon his guidance, strength, and power as we recommit ourselves to the struggle for universal freedom. Fidel Vive!

agree. i wouldnt do it, but i respect and understand the decision. agree about having the conversation in a constructive manner. now, how does that actually happen? i think we are kind of doing it here, but its more about the anthem and less (or none) about the issue. #didnothelphiscause

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2016/sort/cwepaPassesCondensed 2016 Regular Season NFL Leaders RK PLAYER PTS ADDED PASS RUN PENALTY TOTAL EPA QB PLAYS RAW QBR TOTAL QBR 1 Drew Brees, NO 33.6 84.4 1.6 0.4 96.5 760 65.1 66.8 2 Matt Ryan, ATL 61.8 83.1 7.6 4.6 110.9 647 79.4 79.6 3 Kirk Cousins, WSH 33.4 78.8 3.8 3.1 97.8 706 66.1 66.5 4 Aaron Rodgers, GB 54.9 75.9 18.3 6.2 115.0 750 73.8 72.4 5 Tom Brady, NE 47.8 71.5 3.8 2.7 83.3 508 79.1 79.4 6 Dak Prescott, DAL 53.1 71.1 18.8 2.1 102.5 572 78.8 77.6 7 Matthew Stafford, DET 34.6 61.5 16.0 6.3 98.4 715 66.5 65.2 8 Jameis Winston, TB 19.6 61.4 5.8 -0.5 80.6 703 59.7 59.5 9 Derek Carr, OAK 8.8 58.9 -0.6 7.9 72.3 672 54.6 56.1 10 Andrew Luck, IND 32.7 56.6 10.9 5.3 91.4 702 65.9 65.9 RK PLAYER PTS ADDED PASS RUN PENALTY TOTAL EPA QB PLAYS RAW QBR TOTAL QBR 11 Philip Rivers, LAC 14.6 55.3 1.2 4.9 74.9 682 57.5 58.7 12 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 19.5 53.7 1.9 2.3 64.7 576 61.8 60.5 13 Joe Flacco, BAL 5.7 53.1 4.8 0.4 74.7 753 52.7 52.5 14 Eli Manning, NYG -1.3 49.7 0.4 1.2 62.0 660 49.3 45.7 15 Carson Wentz, PHI -1.3 47.9 2.8 2.2 65.0 734 49.4 46.7 16 Russell Wilson, SEA 13.5 47.4 5.8 4.3 75.7 699 56.8 57.1 17 Carson Palmer, ARI 8.8 46.0 0.8 5.6 68.3 700 54.5 52.9 18 Sam Bradford, MIN 13.4 45.8 3.1 1.1 64.6 644 57.3 53.1 19 Alex Smith, KC 13.7 44.7 6.6 2.3 62.7 600 58.0 60.8 20 Marcus Mariota, TEN 15.5 42.9 7.3 5.0 64.7 574 59.4 59.1 RK PLAYER PTS ADDED PASS RUN PENALTY TOTAL EPA QB PLAYS RAW QBR TOTAL QBR 21 Andy Dalton, CIN 1.6 37.9 5.2 3.6 61.8 686 50.8 52.3 22 Tyrod Taylor, BUF 20.0 31.5 20.9 3.4 71.5 608 61.4 62.4 23 Trevor Siemian, DEN -2.7 31.0 0.9 3.5 50.5 586 48.4 49.7 24 Ryan Tannehill, MIA -0.8 25.4 3.7 0.7 40.1 476 49.4 48.6 25 Cam Newton, CAR -3.8 24.4 6.2 5.4 53.4 669 48.0 47.1 26 Brock Osweiler, HOU -0.8 23.9 9.6 4.2 49.0 583 49.5 49.3 27 Blake Bortles, JAX -15.9 18.7 13.4 6.0 52.0 773 42.8 43.0 28 Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ -16.8 14.4 3.2 2.9 27.5 481 37.9 39.2 29 Case Keenum, LAR -14.5 10.2 0.1 1.2 22.6 388 37.1 37.5 30 Colin Kaepernick, SF -0.7 -0.3 22.8 -0.1 37.1 454 49.5 49.2

Actually, more of a hoppy ipa guy,...... Go on.

Good points. Good discussion.

loved it.

Maybe we can all agree that's a little muddy when it comes to the flag vs 'oppression of black and brown people'? On the one hand, he mentions the flag himself as symbol of oppression and that he's not showing pride in it. On the other, the flag is a symbol of something, so maybe it's not the flag itself, but what he believes it represents. I think that's a part of the issue.

kosher, what did i miss?

weird, right? in terms of oppression, there has been plenty of it in plenty of places, but we only focus on the oppression that we choose to. an estimated one million people were captured by the barbary pirates and forced into slavery (interesting to me as both a former marine and an englishman). pretty brutal stuff. how so?

i think one could debate that. at least as whats legal in terms of discrimination. but to the first point, it is way too easy to get off if youre a cop who committed a bad shooting. no question.