Should ex-cons be treated as equals

This is kind of a spin off of the Michal Vick thread in the ATN forum, but do you think once a person has served his time and is freed from jail they should be able to get a job anywhere, or does that fact that hey have been convicted of a crime automatically eliminate them from certain professions (i.e. teaching, police officer, banker). I am curious as to what some people think about this issue.

They did their time, as long as they don't **** it up again man, I think they should be able to get the same jobs. Just because you went to jail for driving like an idiot, you can get your license back, so why not?

Yes. But it depends on the crime. Of course, child molesters shouldn't be allowed to work where there's children and so fourth.

Yes. But it depends on the crime. Of course, child molesters shouldn't be allowed to work where there's children and so fourth.

This is true, it's a definite exception to what I think though.

Great, now you got me thinking of other ones...should an arsenist be able to be a fireman? Hmmm...

should an arsenist be able to be a fireman? Hmmm...

Many are.

I have never believed that convicted felons should simply be able to step back into society without some level of continuing punishment. They've already proven an inability and/or unwillingness to live inside the guidelines and rules set out by society, so why does anyone thing that they're going to do anything different just because they spent some time in a country club.... uhhh..... I mean prison?

I have an uncle in New Jersey who was arrested last month on more than a half dozen felony charges. So far as I'm concerned he should go to jail for the rest of his life. Even if he does get out at some point down the road the family has already told him that we no longer have any interest in having any contact with him. His crimes have tainted who he is and no amount of time in jail can ever erase that.

I have never believed that convicted felons should simply be able to step back into society without some level of continuing punishment. They've already proven an inability and/or unwillingness to live inside the guidelines and rules set out by society, so why does anyone thing that they're going to do anything different just because they spent some time in a country club.... uhhh..... I mean prison?

I have an uncle in New Jersey who was arrested last month on more than a half dozen felony charges. So far as I'm concerned he should go to jail for the rest of his life. Even if he does get out at some point down the road the family has already told him that we no longer have any interest in having any contact with him. His crimes have tainted who he is and no amount of time in jail can ever erase that.

I've never been to prison, but they're anything but a country club.

I've never been to prison, but they're anything but a country club.

My view of an appropriate prison is Alcatraz, sith. I'm talking absolute, dead silence. 2 man concrete cells with steel bunks bolted to the floor and a hole in the corner for a toilet. food served to the prisoners on paper plates in their cells with no utensils (sandwiches, fruit/veggies, corn chips, bottled water). Not this BS where people have cable tv, recreational facilities, libraries, educational facilities, etc.....

My view of an appropriate prison is Alcatraz, sith. I'm talking absolute, dead silence. 2 man concrete cells with steel bunks bolted to the floor and a hole in the corner for a toilet. food served to the prisoners on paper plates in their cells with no utensils (sandwiches, fruit/veggies, corn chips, bottled water). Not this BS where people have cable tv, recreational facilities, libraries, educational facilities, etc.....

I'm with you on a lot of this stuff, but not the educational tools. Prisons are not meant to be soley punishment, but also as a means of rehabilation. I'm all for chain gangs and no cable TV - but allow them all the positive reading material they want.

Yes. But it depends on the crime. Of course, child molesters shouldn't be allowed to work where there's children and so fourth.

+1

We definitely do not want to stop ex-cons from having normal jobs and normal lives. If we do that, then we pretty much guarantee that they will go back to crime, since it's the only thing they can do to survive. That's how you create a permanent criminal underclass.

Yes. But it depends on the crime. Of course, child molesters shouldn't be allowed to work where there's children and so fourth.

That is what makes this issue so tough. What criminals are "better" than others. Surely a guy who steals bread for his satrving family is not as bad as a child molester but when you apply for a job once you check that you have been arrested, convicted of a DUI or a felony, chances are you will not get the job. Is that fair?

My view of an appropriate prison is Alcatraz, sith. I'm talking absolute, dead silence. 2 man concrete cells with steel bunks bolted to the floor and a hole in the corner for a toilet. food served to the prisoners on paper plates in their cells with no utensils (sandwiches, fruit/veggies, corn chips, bottled water). Not this BS where people have cable tv, recreational facilities, libraries, educational facilities, etc.....

I hear what you're saying. If I had a choice, the one thing I'd take from every prison is weights. Criminals getting stronger is all we need.

+1

we definitely do not want to stop ex-cons from having normal jobs and normal lives. If we do that, then we pretty much guarantee that they will go back to crime, since it's the only thing they can do to survive. That's how you create a permanent criminal underclass.

+1

+1

We definitely do not want to stop ex-cons from having normal jobs and normal lives. If we do that, then we pretty much guarantee that they will go back to crime, since it's the only thing they can do to survive. That's how you create a permanent criminal underclass.

Well said predicto, I would like to hear from the other side as well but you make a great point.

That is what makes this issue so tough. What criminals are "better" than others. Surely a guy who steals bread for his satrving family is not as bad as a child molester but when you apply for a job once you check that you have been arrested, convicted of a DUI or a felony, chances are you will not get the job. Is that fair?

No it isn't. If I had a DUI conviction or something of that nature, I'd just explain and ask/beg for a second chance. But if you've been convicted of Murder, molesting, rape or armed robbery? Good luck.

I hear what you're saying. If I had a choice, the one thing I'd take from every prison is weights. Criminals getting stronger is all we need.

Didn't they do that in California? Predicto....

Depends on if you believe in rehabilitation.

Depends on if you believe in rehabilitation.

I do. Believe it or not, some do get rehabilitated.

Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?

Lets use a famous person that currently serving time. Mike Vick. Is dogfighting such a bad crime that he shouldn't be able to get a decent job?

No it isn't. If I had a DUI conviction or something of that nature, I'd just explain and ask/beg for a second chance. But if you've been convicted of Murder, molesting, rape or armed robbery? Good luck.

I hear what you are saying but it is different for people applying right after they are let out of jail. Once they check that box it is over they do not even get to talk to anyone because when they see that box checked you will not get a call back.

Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?

What are you implying? If you want to say something, say it.

Oh, I think that a part of a person's punishment should be a period of reduced rights. (After all, that's what prison is, to start with.)

But I also believe that those rights (at least most of them) should be gradually restored over time. For lots of reasons.

One reason is that if the con doesn't have the carrot of restoration of rights dangling in front of him, it's tough to motivate him to remain straight. (Just as "time off for good behavior" is a tool that prisons can use to encourage prisoners to shut up and behave.)

No, I don't necessarily believe that all rights should be restored. Some may well be gone for good. (Like the ability to be a police officer or school teacher.) But I do think that most of them should be.

What are you implying? If you want to say something, say it.

You evidently weren't on that bench....

It's an Arlo Guthrie lyric

What are you implying? If you want to say something, say it.

Sorry - its a line from a famous anti-vietnam 70's song. Not sure why it popped into the head.