When does the philosophy change?

I try to not start too many threads because they usually go over like a lead balloon. That being said, bear with me.

At what point, should we as fans (like it's our choice) or Dan Snyder for that matter, consider blowing everything up and starting over? I by no means think that NOW is the time to do this. But, how long does the theory of a "coaching collaboration" versus a GM, or buying young FA in their prime instead of drafting young talent, or even dare I say changing the "core" players of this team become a realization? If JC does get in the game this year, does the philosophy change or do we continue down this path until he "matures"? Will we continue to follow this path just with GIBBS? If he should leave is that the catalyst for the change? If Gibbs stays in the organization after he is no longer coaching, would we continue to follow this trend or do you think the front office, Gibbs or no Gibbs decides to make a change?

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Personally, I think the owner/team has to buy into a coaches way of doing business. Very seldom is it successful the other way around. Gibbs likes the vet leadership. That is what he is used to and will continue to use what gave him his name in this business. Who ever the next coach is when Gibbs decides to hang them up for good, this team would have to buy into his way of doing business. If he is 'new school' and likes to build with youth via the draft then I would venture to say that is how we will do business.

I hope that makes sense. :laugh:

Hmmm.... ( looks at star charts..... checks planet alignment, full moons.... calls Cruise.....)

Saturday, 3:33 pm, 2012.

No change I think, until Coach Gibbs retires and maybe even a season or 2 afterwards to see how the team and organization react to that and do "on their own."

Well thanks for starting such a good thread. I like the topic and my insight is very simple... Gibbs has never been one to change things much when the team wasnt doing well. Think back to his first season and his 0-5 start. The team said at that time (I have the video of his first few seasons) that he never changed his approach or philosophy. He just kept the team headed forward and eventually things turned around.

Move forward several years and I think you will see the same thing. Maybe when Gibbs leaves things will change drastically but right now I think conviction and believe will see this team and us through the tough times.

Personally, I think the owner/team has to buy into a coaches way of doing business. Very seldom is it successful the other way around. Gibbs likes the vet leadership. That is what he is used to and will continue to use what gave him his name in this business. Who ever the next coach is when Gibbs decides to hang them up for good, this team would have to buy into his way of doing business. If he is 'new school' and likes to build with youth via the draft then I would venture to say that is how we will do business.

I hope that makes sense. :laugh:

Makes sense...I wonder how it would go if Gibbs stayed on as "GM" and had a coach other than the ones that are under him now? It would stay the same with Sauders or Williams, but they may not stay around. I also wonder at what point Vinny would be evaluated by Snyder/Gibbs in this situation. I also wonder if Gibbs would be willing to change his "veteran" view of things and start drafting more should he not be succesful.:logo:

Well, two things are going to happen this season:

(1) We're going to beat the Colts and start the playoff race.

-or-

(2) We're going to lose to the Colts and we are going to be out of the playoff race.

If the latter occurs, the Jason Campbell era will start (hopefully vs Dallas, but if not, then sometime soon). We will then see how he plays. Of course no one will expect him to go 8-1 and lead us to the playoffs, but if he looks like he's the real deal, then we're not in bad shape for next year.

If he looks terrible, then I don't know what to expect for next year.

And if the former occurs, hopefully we'll make playoffs, win it all, and everyone will be glee!

Hmmm.... ( looks at star charts..... checks planet alignment, full moons.... calls Cruise.....)

Saturday, 3:33 pm, 2012.

."

what PCS...you dont want to be in character tonight?

:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

smart ass! :laugh:

dispite what others think and say, I consider this year a re-building year. Brand new offense that is regarded as highly sophisticated, new players including stars on both sides of the ball learning a new offense, hurt players, late aquisitions, the only thing that doesnt point to a re-building year is that Mark Brunell is still QB. If we had already benched Brunell and were playing Campbell, the media would say this is a rebuilding year for the Skins. Rebuilding for the Skins isnt like rebuilding for any other team in the NFL, there is no salary cap hell in Washington, so we can go out and get Superstars every year. That isnt wrong, givingup ALL our draft picks = not good. I dont think we need to blow up the team. Hell, if we were winning and AA or Carter were still under performing, there wouldnt be this kind of scrutiny about them, or Gibbs, or the team for that matter, because we would be wiining. We are a work in progress, but I have a feeling it will pay off one of these days. I think it hurt more when Gibbs gave the team a short training camp and as little work in the off season as he could.

Makes sense...I wonder how it would go if Gibbs stayed on as "GM" and had a coach other than the ones that are under him now? It would stay the same with Sauders or Williams, but they may not stay around. I also wonder at what point Vinny would be evaluated by Snyder/Gibbs in this situation. I also wonder if Gibbs would be willing to change his "veteran" view of things and start drafting more should he not be succesful.:logo:

Gibbs was the man who called plays. Always was. Last year, he was having difficulty with that and then brought in Al Saunders to relinquish those duties. Gibbs may not be well known for changing his way of doing things but, he knows when something is not working and will do whatever it takes to better the team. Should he continue on with this team as a GM.. I think he would adapt to change if that would equal more wins. It takes a true man to admit your mistakes but, it takes a better man to help correct them. Joe Gibbs, IMO, is that better man.

dispite what others think and say, I consider this year a re-building year. Brand new offense that is regarded as highly sophisticated, new players including stars on both sides of the ball learning a new offense, hurt players, late aquisitions, the only thing that doesnt point to a re-building year is that Mark Brunell is still QB. If we had already benched Brunell and were playing Campbell, the media would say this is a rebuilding year for the Skins. Rebuilding for the Skins isnt like rebuilding for any other team in the NFL, there is no salary cap hell in Washington, so we can go out and get Superstars every year. That isnt wrong, givingup ALL our draft picks = not good. I dont think we need to blow up the team. Hell, if we were winning and AA or Carter were still under performing, there wouldnt be this kind of scrutiny about them, or Gibbs, or the team for that matter, because we would be wiining. We are a work in progress, but I have a feeling it will pay off one of these days. I think it hurt more when Gibbs gave the team a short training camp and as little work in the off season as he could.

see you hit on a couple things there that I was thinking about earlier. Especially the Campbell thing. If we are in that process I can understand the calls for Brunnell, although I do not agree with them. And if he is retiring next year, it's nuts to not get him in this year. I did hear someone say however that one of the things that is hurting us this year is that we are thin because we dont draft many young players, in other words, we dont draft a CB so if Springs goes down we have a young guy coming up behind him, instead next year we go out and sign a vet who may or may not stay healthy. I can understand moving some of the draft picks, but I do question not using the draft a bit more if that truly is the case.

Gibbs was the man who called plays. Always was. Last year, he was having difficulty with that and then brought in Al Saunders to relinquish those duties. Gibbs may not be well known for changing his way of doing things but, he knows when something is not working and will do whatever it takes to better the team. Should he continue on with this team as a GM.. I think he would adapt to change if that would equal more wins. It takes a true man to admit your mistakes but, it takes a better man to help correct them. Joe Gibbs, IMO, is that better man.

The question is tho does he make that change should he decide to stay on the sidelines another 2 or 3 years? I dont think he would, although no one thought he would give up playcalling duties either.

smart ass! :laugh:

Who me? :halo:

The question is tho does he make that change should he decide to stay on the sidelines another 2 or 3 years? I dont think he would, although no one thought he would give up playcalling duties either.

I think he would. However, I do not think he would change too drastically. I think we would keep more of our draft picks but, we would still be heavy in the FA market. When you do something a certain way, you live and die by that practice. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You do what you are comfortable with. When you are no longer comfortable with what you do or how you do it--it is time to hang it up. If changing completely would make Gibbs uncomfortable.. I would have to think that he would know when it's time.

I'll revisit this after the Cowboys game.

I try to not start too many threads because they usually go over like a lead balloon. That being said, bear with me.

At what point, should we as fans (like it's our choice) or Dan Snyder for that matter, consider blowing everything up and starting over? I by no means think that NOW is the time to do this. But, how long does the theory of a "coaching collaboration" versus a GM, or buying young FA in their prime instead of drafting young talent, or even dare I say changing the "core" players of this team become a realization? If JC does get in the game this year, does the philosophy change or do we continue down this path until he "matures"? Will we continue to follow this path just with GIBBS? If he should leave is that the catalyst for the change? If Gibbs stays in the organization after he is no longer coaching, would we continue to follow this trend or do you think the front office, Gibbs or no Gibbs decides to make a change?

:logo:

Your post looks like piss. Seriously.

Your post looks like piss. Seriously.

Going to add something to the topic or not?

The best franchises tend to have a certain consistancy in the way they do business.

This organization had had way too much flux in recent years. Joe Gibbs has started to bring some of that stability here.

It is frustrating when impatient fans decide that everything is crap and wants to blow things up. I'm done with blowing things up. It is time to build something, and I think Gibbs is doing it.

Jason

Well thanks for starting such a good thread. I like the topic and my insight is very simple... Gibbs has never been one to change things much when the team wasnt doing well. Think back to his first season and his 0-5 start. The team said at that time (I have the video of his first few seasons) that he never changed his approach or philosophy. He just kept the team headed forward and eventually things turned around.

Actually after the 0-5 start Gibbs changed a lot, Air Coryell went out the door, and he started using more of a power running game with a mix of passing. He changed to suit the type of players he had on the field. His approach and philosophy toward the players never changed.

I don't see Snyder ever changing his philosophy. He thinks he's playing Madden, and thats how he will continue to run it. He has yet to realise that success is grown, not bought.

Your post looks like piss. Seriously.

....and your replies ARE piss.

The best franchises tend to have a certain consistancy in the way they do business.

This organization had had way too much flux in recent years. Joe Gibbs has started to bring some of that stability here.

Jason

Jason I think you hit the nail on the head, stability is what we have lacked in the past. I think what many of us were expecting was a very strong team this year, with the defense remaining the same or even improving, and a much stronger offense. This season started out with some injuries to key players and that has led to a very inconsistant defense, this isn't a stability issue. While the offense has been Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde it at least has been scoring points. I'm not sure starting Jason at this point will change anything. Not being at practice I have no idea how he is progressing but I do

know that the coaching staff hasn't started him so I can reasonably expect that at this point he isn't ready. Starting a young QB before he is ready can either make him or break him. With what we have invested in Jason I'm willing to wait.

The best franchises tend to have a certain consistancy in the way they do business.

This organization had had way too much flux in recent years. Joe Gibbs has started to bring some of that stability here.

It is frustrating when impatient fans decide that everything is crap and wants to blow things up. I'm done with blowing things up. It is time to build something, and I think Gibbs is doing it.

Jason

Did you READ the post? Because I was VERY clear about "blowing things up". Not what I think should happen now....however at some point the way we are doing things will need to be questioned, my question was basically when should that be considered, if not we could be in "flux" for quite awhile. And if I misunderstood the tone of your post I apologize in advance.

Actually after the 0-5 start Gibbs changed a lot, Air Coryell went out the door, and he started using more of a power running game with a mix of passing. He changed to suit the type of players he had on the field. His approach and philosophy toward the players never changed.

I hope that if things dont pan out, he would use the same thought in the way the organization should be run. We arent sure yet if this is way is to run the franchise or not, I agree that some things have come up that have been unexpected at best. Lets hope that the inconsistancy is not consistant.

I don't see Snyder ever changing his philosophy. He thinks he's playing Madden, and thats how he will continue to run it. He has yet to realise that success is grown, not bought.

I used to think that of Snyder, not anymore. I think these are Gibbs' choices and to blame Snyder would be wrong. I think if Gibbs had said..."we build thru the draft to be successful", that Snyder would have bought into that plan as well. He thinks to highly of Gibbs to not listen to him.:logo: