shamaran Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 I've worn the tape out from last night. I'm here, alone, with my German Shephard! Mom and kids are gone to the inlaws, so I can watch, endlessly ( I know, I need a hobby.) The question begs. . . After 24 hours (and then some), I've found very little negative here, on this site, curiously so? I know. . . preseason and all, but let's just say we we're a fly on the wall of the private meeting with Dano and Marty last night. What was said? I think it may have gone something like this. . . Dano to Marty - Man, this booing is really cutting into profits; half the crowd was gone soon after the half! Marty - I thought we agreed that preseason winning meant nothing? Dano - "Don't do it again, next week vs. Clev." Marty - ubaudible grumbling [ by shamaran on August 19, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 I've actually seen some good deal of negativity, Shamaran, and generally, I've been slightly worried about the reaction to the score rather than the team. Snyder and Marty will be meeting after every game for Marty's entire tenure here. Just like Norv and Dan met. Hey, precisely like Gibbs and JKC met after every game the Squire attended. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Dan was a little pissed, if he's a fan of the team and reacts like a typical fan like those booing for example. It also wouldn't surprise me if at all if Dan was just talking football with the coach. I'm a fan and if I owned the team, I'd talk to the coach too, without being completely pissed, because the forest is what I'm looking at, and not the trees. Had we turned in another KC stinker, I'd even start to worry some . Just a little. But, overall, the team played much better, and with a moderate little bit of help offensively in the form of an occasionally well-thrown pass, I'm not too concerned about things. Not yet. Though, I do worry that Marty may be playing a dangerous game the team won't be able to overcome if he's not careful. While not trying to lose, he's trying to hold the dogs back and make them very hungry, so when they are turned loose, they go out like a bunch of crazed beasts. If the team believes 27-6 is a sign of the future, and it losses confidence, it will be hard to capture that once the year starts. Marty's mistake is, perhaps, in thinking that while what he's done in his career has been successful, this Redskin team is a team in drastic need of an injection of confidence and a culture of expecting to win. For this Redskin team, a poor preseason could potentially make the team doubt itself. But, that's thinking far more deeply on the issue than is necessary. I'll just look forward to seeing how we play in the brief time we see an actual quarterback on the field. Until then, and it's likely that will be San Diego, we're all just whistling Dixie. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 I'm (sort of) agreeing with you, Art. I'm not that worried about the score, but I can see how that will erode confidence in the coach. (If there is any. After all, to us, he's almost a legend, but to some of these players, I bet he's a guy who's been in front of a camera for a couple of years, who lots of old-timers talk about well. I hope Marty has the team's confidence, but I'm not certain of it). These games shure ain't doing much for confidence in our QBs, either. If we have to hand off to Davis 13 times in a row to get a touchdown, that still makes the team, and the QB, look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 Confidence in what QBs? The ones that have played so far are our #3 at best. George and Banks will get the work this Friday or next week then that will be the time to gauge the QBs. Health is the only thing we need concern ourselves with.Duh ------------------ Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 19, 2001 Author Share Posted August 19, 2001 Well, I think the Browns at FedX, next Fri., represents a game that this "current" Redskins team needs to defeat. Call it confidence, pysche, or whatever, this team needs to feel good about winning a game at this point. But, I don't think getting George back guarantees much of anything. As far as his return being the magic bullet, I don't agree. He's going to be VERY rusty; he has no timing with the many new rec., and frankly, he's not that consistant when he's healthy. My point is, while his return will make folks feel a little more warm and fuzzy (short-term), it's going to take many throws for him to get to his regular self. I do think that he (George) and Banks will play just enough Fri. to get that much-needed (IMO) win against another less than juggernaut team - the Brownies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 I don't see George playing Friday, but it would be a nice surprise. And, whether we beat Cleveland or not is irrelevant to me. It's not about winning. It's about learning. George has been a pretty good player in his career, who is very accurate, but, given the nature of the majority of the offensive schemes he's been in, his completion percentage is naturally down. Had he had an offense like Brad Johnson, where Brad was willing to take a shorter bite rather than all the big ones, I think you'd find he's a very accurate passer. This year will be the year to determine that, as while I don't believe we'll be dinking and dumping all year, I do believe this offense puts a premium on getting something on every possible play, and George has tended to like getting nothing if not everything . As George says, it shouldn't take him that long to get in timing with his receivers, because with his arm, it's not like it's the receivers that matter. With Johnson, and other weaker armed QBs, the timing was crucial. Johnson had to throw the same out pass a whole lot earlier to get it there, and that was based on how quick the receivers could be there. George simply overpowers the ball to get it there and his timing is more based on himself, given that arm strength. IF his injury is worse than reported, we could find timing a more substantial issue, as he'll have to take off the RPMs and adjust. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 Shamaran - I wouldn't get caught up into thinking that ANY preseason game is a must win. Our starters are still not playing much, if at all. The first nick or bruise and they sit down, where in the regular season they would play through. What's important here is that the team gain some crispness in execution, avoid the boneheaded mistakes that are becoming tradition here in DC (preseason, reg seson & playoffs) and stay healthy. I still have faith we'll see a much better team in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 19, 2001 Share Posted August 19, 2001 I don't think there is any team in the NFL, especially a mostly younger team with a lot of new people, that is going to go out and look very confident or comfortable when arguably the leader of the offense, Jeff George and the defense, Bruce Smith, are absent. That is just stating the obvious. You take Elvis Grbac and Ray Lewis off the Ravens. You take Donovan McNabb and Hugh Douglas off the Eagles. You take Kurt Warner and Aeneas Williams off the new-look Rams. And what do you have? Teams that will come out and be able to execute only 50% of the regular game plan on offense and will probably pack less punch on the defensive side. This season rests on George. If his arm comes around and he is able to play with some pain, the Redskins can still be a quality team. Right now the players are demoralized because they know the team is dead in the water with the present QB's and with Dorian Boose and Michael Bankston starting at DE. See any pass rush from the DL without Bruce and Marco? Or without LaVar taking snaps at the LDE spot? NO. That is the reason Trent Green and Chris Chandler have looked as good as they have. A veteran quarterback always beats a defense without a rush. That is axiomatic. Derrick Ham, Del Cowsette and Kenard Lang were supposed to be rushmen while having some problems against the run. Well, I have seen little of Ham, Cowsette, Lang, etc..heading to the quarterback so far. It must be all those all-pro players they have faced the past two weeks Atlanta's line gave up 69 sacks last season and returns those same five players and yet the Skins did absolutely nothing against them. The opponents don't come with a bigger bulls-eye. If these players can't play against these guys, they are "NFL".........NOT FOR LONG............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 I didn't see any difference AT ALL when Marco Coleman WAS IN. Please don't tell me one old man with a gimpy shoulder is going to turn the whole line into world-beaters. Ham should have been cut by now. His three offsides in the last two games (more like apperances) are inexcusible! It shows you how thin we really are for him not to have been made an example of. And with all due respect, this is not a regular preseason game for the CURRENT group that are wearing the burgudy & gold. This is a group that is taking the same approach as Norv's team, i.e., "losing is no big deal!; where's my check?" If they think they can turn on the "win" switch, just as easy as that, when they fly to San Deigo in a few weeks, they are mistaken (I'm affraid). Traditionally, the third preseason game is treated as the next thing to real-thing anyway for normal teams and the fourth is just a chance to look at players on the bubble. This is not a normal team. It has more kinks to work out than I would have ever imagined at this point, Bruce & George or not. Didn't the work begin in April camps? I hear Marty has signed his ol' buddy Szott; perhaps he can persuade him to play DT or DE, God knows we need them (even if Marty doesn't). P.S. Please excuse the rant; haven't had my positive pill today yet. I'll check back later when it kicks in. [<IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif" border=0> by shamaran on August 20, 2001.] [ by shamaran on August 20, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Shamaran, are you referring in your opening paragraph to Marco Coleman and his gimpy back? You got it wrong on both counts, so I wasn't sure if we'd signed Monte Coleman recently and I was sleeping . If you think the addition of Smith and Coleman on the defensive front is an inconsequential benefit to the team, you are sadly and woefully off base. Marty's defensive scheme thusfar in the preseason has been so completely vanilla, I'm not surprised to see some problems. People I've talked with who have been at camp have commented that they aren't seeing a defense in the games anything like they are seeing in practice. They say Arrington isn't doing anything in the games like he's being allowed to do in practice. There's no blitzing. No adjustments. Just basic lining up and playing. I suspect we won't see that type of defense once the season starts, else we'll have problems then. Breathe deeply and remind yourself that this IS the preseason. While the Redskins will have some difficulty coming together as a team under this new system, one real advantage the team has early in the year is that no one really can be certain what type of system we'll be producing. No one will really have any tendencies to watch for. Marty isn't about to show very many in the preseason. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Shamaran, take Eddie George and Jevon Kearse off the Titans and tell me again that two players don't make any difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 Thank you, Art. Yes, I do wish we had some of the fire that Monte had. Sadly, I've not seen it from this group, preseason or not. (P.S. I went back and changed it as not to confuse anyone else.) Here's my problem with your rationale. By the way, it's the same problem Big Jake Jacoby said he has with it too as recently as yesterday. He's a gloom & doomer too, you know. This isn't a normal team. This is a team that is trying to come together, with all new coaches (save the D-line) and mostly new players, schemes, language, etc. If it were that static, staid, or Norvaless' (God forbid)team, I'd by into the regular line of preseason means nothing, it's vanilla, it's no blitz pkgs, etc. stuff. But it's not. When do you think this team will put in it's stunts, blitz pkgs, etc. on def. and on offense, when will they employ the more difficult line adjustments, more pulling plays, traps, etc.? Heck this team is mostly unable to block straight ahead on offense and do little more on defense than to hold up their opposing player. I guess we'll just wait 'til REGULAR SEASON to flip that switch, right? Then, we'll operate like a well-oiled machine because it's no longer PRESEASON? Personally, I think they better try flipping the switch in the first quarter this Friday. Then, I'll take a deep breath of belief in your therory (and partake in some of that kool-aid that is going around here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 Et tu, Bulldog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Shamaran, I've said almost exactly what you've said here in this thread previously. The potential problem Marty may encounter is that this team will potentially lose faith in itself if it struggles the entire preseason with no visible sign of improvement in keeping the games closer. While you are correct, and Big Jake as well, that this is not a normal situation, you and Big Jake are kidding yourselves if you think this is NOT how it's done in the NFL. No team installs blitz packages, line stunts, pulls and traps on the O-Line and the rest of the more complex detail of an individual game-like attack until camp closes. Go ask Joe Jacoby how many times Gibbs installed blitz packages while the whole of the media world was watching. It NEVER happened. It NEVER happened under Norv either. It never happens under any coach. Sure, generic blitzes are worked on. But, packages designed to highlight specific talent on the team are hidden until the camp ends and the whole world's media can't write about the specifics of what's out there. This is a fact and I suspect you are well aware of it. After camp ends Friday, and practice is no longer wide open, you'll see the coaching staff begin deploying game-type detail and complex designs. And, the Redskins won't function like a well-oiled machine for several weeks. It's asking too much to expect the Redskins to play like a cohesive unit for many weeks, given the change we've experienced. In terms of individual performances along both lines to this point, I also give it little weight. I don't worry about Chris Samuels getting beaten too often. I don't fret about Jansen lining up incorrectly. I also don't worry about Raymer making the correct line calls to account for the other team's lineup. I expect to see this team struggling at this point in the preseason. It would be too much to expect it wouldn't struggle. Right now every player has a whirlwind of information running around up top that they have to process. Once the season begins to roll around, and the specifics of individual game-planning start being offered, you'll see improvement. Trying to blow up this preseason as having special meaning is off base. The preseason is just the preseason. I'd like us to look better, and, against Atlanta, we did. But, you can't give up points and create short drives consistently for the opposition and look good while doing it. There's no extra importance to this preseason for Marty than any other. It would be "nice" for Marty to get the team together and help it gain confidence it may not have after years of Norv, but, that's not a worry. At least not yet. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 Yes, Art, point taken, but what I'm tring to say is, if they can't EXECUTE plain vanilla, how can you (or I) expect them to EXECUTE more complex schemes? Now come on. . .you know that as well as I. You can't flip the switch when the camp closes or when you arrive in San Deigo; it's all about EXECUTION. And while I'm at it, I will also say to all those that hate the media to say nasty (yet truthful) things about the team's performance. . . Marty is smarty enough to use that media to his advantage (at least he used to be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 hey, we are all in this together. Marty puts the team together and we pay to watch them. I don't think it is in Marty's interest to inflate expectations unnecessarily, after all what good does that do if the team starts out 0-4? What I DO think has happened is that the team has suffered injuries at spots that are difficult to recover from and still field a team that has adequate leadership and executes smoothly. Just look at who was hurt last week. Was it Justin Skaggs or Lloyd Harrison? No. It was Chris Samuels and Stephen Davis. Before that it was Jeff George, Stephen Alexander, Bruce Smith, Marco Coleman and LaVar Arrington. Call it a tough camp or bad breaks or destiny, but the fact is those are among our best players and each has missed time or is now going to miss time at the end of camp. Those are the cards that have been dealt. The silver lining is none of the players are going to miss the season or anywhere near it. The Redskins are the only team I know of that has had its starting quarterback shelved for almost the entire preseason so far. Yes, Baltimore and Jacksonville have suffered injuries at RB and WR, but not at quarterback. That is why those teams can still get their work in and stay sharp in practice. The loss of Lewis and McCardell are going to hurt these teams down the road, though. And maybe by that time the Redskins won't have any players out with injuries, just as the Giants and Vikings didn't for the 2000 season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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