My first post here. Long and Depressing

[JRAB]

My first post here and you guys aren’t going to like it. I’ve been a Redskins fan since I was old enough to watch football. I really had no choice, my father told me why I was a Redskins fan and that was that. How my week goes depends on if the Redskins win or lose that Sunday, and my family can’t stand being around me when we lose.

They haven’t liked being around me lately.

I’ve been reading here at Extremeskins for quite some time. I’ve made it my one-stop for Redskins news everyday for months. I get it all right here. I love it.

I feel the need to post now because I’m sickened by the direction our team has gone and I’m tired of everyone acting like everything’s going to be alright. It’s not.

I’m not the best writer and my grammar isn’t perfect, so please bear with me.

So many people are upset because most fans thought we were playoff bound, myself included. If our expectations would have been realistic then we would be taking the losses much more in stride.

We were excited. And why not? We had a hall of fame coach coming back to the sidelines after the tradgedy that was Spurrier, we traded for what was supposed to be one of the best backs in the NFL, we acquired a seasoned vet at QB to lead the team. We had plenty of talent, right? I mean our payroll is highest in the NFL, so that means were talented, huh?

Wrong.

Our coach turns out to be out manned, at least early on, and we look at least as inept as during Spurrier's time in DC. Before the salary cap, parity was only a vision in the commissioner’s head. What if back then Gibbs simply had more talent than most teams? The front office was great and undeniably, those past Gibbs teams had plenty of talent. What if Gibbs schemes *are* simply about execution, not innovation? What if he won because his guys couldn’t be whipped when they executed because they were just better?

If that’s the case, were in trouble, because he’s not going to have a roster full of guys who are superior to the men on the other team. He won’t be able to do it any more than any of the other teams in the NFL. Free agency screwed that up for teams, even if they make good personnel decisions… which we ain’t gonna do. Gibbs is going to have some good players, some average ones, and some who are lucky to stick on a roster… just like other teams. If he wants us to simply line up and out execute the other team, he’ll wish he never came back to coaching. And so will we.

But he should have the most talent out there now, right? We have the highest payroll in the NFL. Let me say that again: We have the highest payroll in the NFL. We are in trouble.

Look what we pay Brunell, Portis, Arrington, Taylor, Coles, Samuels, Morton, Springs, Thomas and others. Who in that group is earning their pay?

Brunell is already clearly a horrible decision. Can you believe what we paid that guy? Gawd almighty! And now we can’t get him out as QB (something 80% of the fans want) because we have so much money tied up in him. He’s washed up and we either are stuck with him or we take a large, unnecessary cap hit and move along. Couple that with all the other huge errors in personnel and it’ll be crippling.

Lavar? He’s a tremendous athlete but his play is only above average. 5.6 mil this year, 5.6 mil next year, and then 12.4 million!!! in 2006! I can’t even look beyond that… it makes me nauseated. All that for a LB in a 4-3 that makes the occasional sack, the occasional INT and the occasional monumental blunder. Someone should’ve told our front office that 4-3 linebackers don’t have that much of an impact. The money should be tied up on D in defensive linemen and CB’s. They’re the ones who have an impact in a 4-3 scheme… not the linebackers. 3-4 linebackers, maybe, but you don’t pay someone umpteen million to make tackles. Even of the sideline-to-sideline variety. That money would’ve been so much more well spent on Champ, or Kearse, or many other free agents.

Which leads me to Portis. We give up a second round pick and a player who is arguably the best CB in the NFL for a back that is too small, lacks patience as a runner, and who's reputation is clearly the result of a Denver system that helps *any* RB put up pro bowl stats. Heck, even without their old OL coach (who made that system work so well in Denver) they're still doing it with no name runners putting up huge numbers.

O. Gary? Yeah, he's done real well since leaving Denver. It'll be the same for Portis.

CB's are sooooo much more difficult to find in the NFL than RB's, and what do we do? We trade the best one in the league for an average RB and just to make it even... we throw in a second round pick!!! Please!! I’ve heard many ex-coaches and announcers talk about how much more difficult it is to find a CB. Good RB’s are a dime a dozen in the NFL and we’ll be lucky if Portis turns out to be good instead of amazingly average. We already had RB’s here that would be doing the same thing Portis is… if not better. What a colossal screw-up. What a colossal *long term ramifications* screw up.

Just losing Bailey and a second (still can’t believe we did that!) for Portis would be bad enough, but to pay Clinton what we did borders on insane. It sent a team already in a precarious salary cap situation into a much, much worse financial spot.

Champ didn't want to be here you say? C'mon... we coulda paid him and he would've been completely happy in DC. (We still would've been in cap trouble, but we'd have Champ instead of Portis.) Bailey just wanted to be paid like he felt he deserved and he’d have remained a Redskin for life. Springs isn’t a tenth of the player Bailey is. Imagine what Champ would’ve done with Williams as his coordinator. Gawd!

Samuels. His cap numbers are 8.8 mil this year, 9.6 mil next year, and 11.3 million in 2006!!??! What’s he doing to earn a quarter of that? Playing solid? Okay? Sorry? What we do know is that he isn’t playing well and even if he were playing well, he wouldn’t be worth anywhere near that money. Nothing against Samuels. It’s that the Redskins continue to pay huge dollars for players who pay small dividends.

Highest payroll in the NFL? 1-4?

Taylor? He’s all ability and no brains. He seriously may never make much of an impact in the NFL because his ability to process information is painfully lacking. At Miami they let him play on instincts alone. He wasn’t particularly part of a secondary or defensive scheme… he just played backyard football. That won’t work in this league. He may never be more than a solid player. Maybe I’m wrong here… I hope so.

That leads me to this though: Safety isn’t a position that you should spend your money at either. They can impact the game but it’s much more difficult to do so at safety than at CB, DE, or DT. Why spend not only that kind of money for a safety, but that high of a pick. I’ll say it again… our money on D should be tied up at CB and DL with solid role players at safety and LB.

Wynn, Salave’a, Griffin, Warner. Those players are listed on the official site depth chart as our starting DL. 5.4 Million. That’s how much they count against our cap this year. Arrington counts 5.6 million this season. Someone just wasn’t thinking. Yes our D has played well, but imagine how it could be doing with pressure from the DL. Sacks, hurries, interceptions… those things help you win games, not just rank high in the defensive ratings. We give up few yards. Big deal, we need game changing plays on defense and with our DL, were not going to get very many. Having to blitz to get pressure on the QB leaves us vulnerable to big plays and makes us likely losers.

Morton, don’t get me started. Thomas, sheesh.

We have the highest payroll in the NFL. Most of them appear to be underachievers, getting by on reputation from one good year in the pro’s or no good NFL years but they were stars in college. Just brimming with athletic ability, but unable to turn the tide of a game. They lack something. Brains? The ability to be part of a team? Heart?

They try hard. I haven’t seen any quit in this team. I wish I had. At least then you could say, “Gibbs is going to whip them in shape as the year goes on.” No, these guys work hard and try… they just can’t do it. And this is our roster guys. They’re not a young team full of guys trying to make a name for themselves. Blue collar guys who could turn into a blue chipper and surprise everyone. Nope, they’re already big name players who’ve been there and done that. What you see is pretty much what you get.

So Gibbs is going to go get new guys then, you say. If you start trying to bring in new guys… we just don’t have the cap room. We’ll have to start letting some of our present big players go, and that’s going to wreck our cap. We’ll have so much dead money that Gibbs will be way retired before it’s ever straightened out.

I read on a prominent Redskin website where one of the writers was being a typical Redskin fan and trying to show how we’ll be fine with the cap. He wrote (if memory serves) that if we only got rid of Samuels, Morton and Gardner we would be able to sign all of our own free agents and draft picks for 2005 and 2006. That’s fine… but that’s also assuming we don’t sign one single free agent from another team. Not one!

First off, can you see Snyder not signing one free agent from another team for the next two years? Uh, me neither. But let’s assume he doesn’t. That means that we would have the exact same roster we have now except for the three players I mentioned above and our draft picks. Great. That’s some group we have now. And with our recent history with draft picks and considering how few we have, that paints a rather bleak outlook for our team the next few years.

Think about it. No new blood coming in except for our draft picks! God help. All the while, the rest of the league is going around signing players left and right. Dallas, Philly, New York, they’re all in great cap shape and they’ll be swiping up all the good free agents while we only watch so we can retain the schmucks we have now. And if one of our players sign elsewhere, it will only be one of the players that we now think is one of our better players. Then we’ll only be able to go into free agency to acquire a player to take his place and he probably won’t be as good as the player we lost. At best it’ll be an even swap.

But you know Snyder will sign free agents. That means were going to lose a lot of the guys we now have. Who goes? Coles, Arrington, who?

I’m going to stop now. It’s making me sick. I’m sure ya’ll are glad I’m stopping. I know you guys don’t want to hear the things I’m saying.

I hope I get more positive about the Redskins so I can write something on here that isn’t so depressing.

[Ghost of]

Not to hurt your feelings, but while a few of those points may be accurate, I think you went way over the line of reason on most of them. Also, many of the decisions were not made when it came to this free agent season. Not like you can "cut" lavar and get Kearse. ANd it was Lavar who turned the season around in 2001. Kearse has yet to do that for a team.

But I just wanted to make a point about CHamp. AT THIS MOMENT--Springs is playing better than Champ. I don't know where you get teh idea he's 1/10th the player because he's bettter in run support, better in blitzing and thus far has been a better cover corner than Bailey's last year here.

[SkinsCrunkin]

Sadly this makes a lot of sense, hopefully we will be able to keep Samuels and Gardner in some way, signing Mike Barrow was a mistake, I still think LaVar is worth the money. I like Portis but I wasn't the biggest fan of him coming into Gibbs's system, I would have much rather given Betts a chance and then drafted a DE in the second round.

Sean Taylor looks fine to me though for a rookie so I don't know what you are saying there, it takes time for a rookie to learn, he will get it and he will be an impact player. I hated the idea of giving up our third rounder for Mark Brunell and I hate it now, if we were going to get a veteran we could have signed Jeff Blake or hell Jeff George even, I think Jeff George could be doing better than this moron we have under center. I believe in Gibbs and Bugel and Williams and believe that they can turn this around, it will just take time. In the meantime we as fans can not give up, we must support the team until the end.

[TheSteve]

Good points. You'll probably get lambasted by everyone for posting something not overly homeristic, but everything you said has a ring of truth, even though you're looking at it from the glass half empty perspective. I think what you've typed is in reality what's in the bottom of every skins fans heart, the worst case scenario, the questions we stay up at night asking ourselves. But in the end we shove it out of our minds, because we don't want to consider that possibility. But it is a possibility nonetheless.

But pessimism never made anyone happy, you need to start looking at it from the glass half full approach.

You know what? Gibbs may be overwhelmed, he may have had better talent in the 80's. But that doesn't take away from his accomplishments. He was still an innovative mind. He's still capable of turning this ship around. Heck, if you want to go pessimistic, if Gibbs can't do it then I don't ever see this franchise turning around in the next ten years.

You think the media likes us as their whipping boy now? Wait 5 years from now if Gibbs fails, we'll be likened to the Bengals of the NFC. Laughingstock. We are on that edge, the brink of total ineptitude as a franchise. We are and already have been in the mire of mediocrity for 12 years.

We have risen up out of the waters for one playoff birth and divisional title. Coincidence that it happened when we had a GM, a Coach who had been around for awhile and had established stability(But maybe not credibility), and a plan? Probably not.

But our hope is that Gibbs will establish a plan. A plan that is something of higher hope than the quick fixes on free agents every year. A good team builds through the draft and uses Free Agency to address and fill those voids that may appear in their team. The Redskins have been trying to use FA to build a core group of players. That has yet to work with anyone. Even the New York Yankees best players have come through their farm system.

I believe this franchise is at a crossroads. Do we sink further in the pit of quicksand that is mediocrity, and nothing to cheer about save the occasional 8-8 to 9-7 season. Or start to build a foundation for a better future. We'll know soon enough. But we must be patient.

[CHUBAKAH]

Great posts from both sides of the glass guys. I think the key word is Patience. I know a lot of people are fed up with that word, but its a lot like hope, and at this point, all we can do is hope. Its not in our hands at all, so we need to be here and support our guys through the thick and thin. That's what makes us, the 12th man....

[illone]

Welcome to the boards.

I can tell you are frustrated, what a long winded first hello:laugh:

Much of your post has speculation and your own personal bias attached to it, which is fine. I for one totally disagree that Gibbs had better talent than the other teams. Darrell Green would be the only glaring exception to this, obviously:laugh:

I really think you need to give this time before you throw in the towel on Portis or Brunell for that matter. If you stick around on the site long enough, then feel free to laugh in my face if we still suck and it's January 2005, but I still believe that the Skins have a chance to do somehting great this year. If we don't make the playoffs, then what you may see is a tough Redskins team gearing up for 2005 and gaining momentum into the next season.

Is it all about W's and L's to you? Don't you care that Gibbs has a plan for the future of this franchise?

I know it sucks, but man, gotta try to hang in there. If it was easy then it wouldn't be called the Super Bowl.

[JRAB]

I'm sure I'll get lambasted too. The three replies so far have been very civil though, and I thank you for it.

Lol, You didn't hurt my feelings bro.

Not like you can "cut" lavar and get Kearse

I wasn't speaking about this season only. I was saying that Arrington shouldn't have been given that much money whenever his contract came up. Like I said, a 4-3 LB just doesn't do 50 million worth to help a defense... a DE, DT or CB can IMO.

I was talking about DL, not about Kearse specifically.

[JRAB]

Wow... I expected to get torn apart for my negative outburst and what I've gotten was welcome, you have some points, and keep your chin up.

This is a great board. I feel a little embarassed by my negativity now. I know it isn't hopeless, I was just down.

I know ya'll are thinking, "Obsess much?", but it made me feel better to vent and I shouln't have just dumped on all ya'll like that.

Anyway, I won't be so negative from now on because I got it all out now, lol.

[Tarpon75]

I know the Skins had some great players when Joe was winning super bowls in the past.But Joe allways seemed to get the best out of the players he had.Think about some of the journeyman players he had.Was Doug Williams a great QB,was Timmy Smith great,how about Mark Rypien?There was so many role players that stepped up at crucial times.I can remember all the talk about Redskin teams not having superstars but being great teams.The 91 team had some very good players, not many stars but in my opinion they were one of the top 5 teams of all time.The m.o. of Redskin teams back then was to pay people after they performed. They didn't go out and sign big name high salary players.Rypien, for example did not see big money until he won his ring.My point is this hang in there things will be turned around in time.Many of the the problem areas will be sorted out.In the mean time hopefully we will beat the Bears.

[CHUBAKAH]

Originally posted by Tarpon75

In the mean time hopefully we will beat the Bears.

O now lets not carried away with it:doh:

J/K

[Sarge]

Welcome aboard. Generally speaking, you won't get bashed on this board unless you are deserving of it. Sure, there are differences of opinion, but that's what makes the place fun.

For example, right now, Ghost is having fun rubbing the noses of everyone who thought the Brunell deal was good in the dirt:)

But for a first post, I thought it was well thought out. Maybe not all right, but well thought out

Welcome aboard.

[Coach Williams]

Originally posted by ButterfingerPortis

This is a great board. I feel a little embarassed by my negativity now. I know it isn't hopeless, I was just down.

Well as you'll notice quickly the people who've been here longer generally tend to be more relaxed about the situation. We know it will work out in the end so we trust Gibbs' every decision. Besides majority of the people who would yell at you are asleep.........they'll come in the morning.......It's kinda like they come ONLY to rant, once they're done they go to work.....

welcome abord.....

[NASMTrainer]

:cuss: :cuss: CLOWN THE MOTHER....

There feel better now? Welcome.

[TheSteve]

Originally posted by Skin-N-NY

:cuss: :cuss: CLOWN THE MOTHER....

There feel better now? Welcome.

:laugh: I say a ban is in order.

[Hauss]

I don't think people buy into the fact that Gibbs had better talent-especially those who vote for the Hall of Fame.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

See, I've been saying that type of thing for years.

Gibbs is a wonderful coach. No question. However, he had the advantage of being in the top 5 personnel-wise every single season. JKC would spend starter money on backups if Joe asked him to.

Now, I don't think that takes away from what he did one bit. Because there were other teams (Dallas, San Fran, etc.) in that day and age that did the same thing.

But it's a good point.

[SonnyRules]

While disagreeing with most of your points, we can feel your pain and respect your right to express your feelings.

Welcome to the board.

[freakofthesouth]

Your screenname sucks.

I can't even take you seriously enough to read what you have written.

[The extremist]

Originally posted by ButterfingerPortis

That leads me to this though: Safety isn’t a position that you should spend your money at either. They can impact the game but it’s much more difficult to do so at safety than at CB, DE, or DT. Why spend not only that kind of money for a safety, but that high of a pick. I’ll say it again… our money on D should be tied up at CB and DL with solid role players at safety and LB.

you made some good points, but this i HAVE to answer: please post this paragraph on the dallas, baltimore, or philly boards just for comedic effect....did you not see Ed Reed singlehandedly win the game for the ravens sunday night?? (sack, fumble returned for a TD; stopping portis on 3rd and 1, which leads to the punt return)

[JRAB]

Thanks for your opinion "FreakoftheNorth"

I know my screen name sucks. I've read here for a long time, but I just joined after the Browns game.

I was really down about Portis (still am) and I was frustrated when I picked the name.

I decided to wait until I felt better about the Redskins for my first post so I didn't post then. I'm still frustrated though.

Now, I wish I hadn't picked ButterfingerPortis, but I guess I'm stuck with it.

Like you said, unfortunately It'll create a negative bias for many folks before they even read what I have to say.

That's what I get for making a rash decision I suppose.

Any way to change it?

[JRAB]

did you not see Ed Reed singlehandedly win the game for the ravens sunday night?? (sack, fumble returned for a TD; stopping portis on 3rd and 1, which leads to the punt return)

Like I said, a safety can impact the game... it's just much more difficult to do so from the safety position than a DL or CB position.

That isn't a theory I formed on my own... I've heard people in the league say the same thing.

In the Redskins defense though, Taylor is supposed to be a special player. Given the chance I'd take a special CB or DL over a safety, but in last years draft, there wasn't a special CB or DL available at our pick... so we very well could have made the right choice. I hope so.

Maybe Taylor will come around. I hope he has the head to play in the NFL.

[freakofthesouth]

Originally posted by ButterfingerPortis

Thanks for your opinion "FreakoftheNorth"

I know my screen name sucks. I've read here for a long time, but I just joined after the Browns game.

I was really down about Portis (still am) and I was frustrated when I picked the name.

I decided to wait until I felt better about the Redskins for my first post so I didn't post then. I'm still frustrated though.

Now, I wish I hadn't picked ButterfingerPortis, but I guess I'm stuck with it.

Like you said, unfortunately It'll create a negative bias for many folks before they even read what I have to say.

That's what I get for making a rash decision I suppose.

Any way to change it?

Hey friend,

I just wanted to let you know how it came off...

You can change your screenname anytime in your profile options, which you can access at the top left of each page.

How about, 'futureportis', or 'portisauthority' (port authority...) Just a thought there.

I'm going back to read your post now!

[Dirk Diggler]

Someone talk this guy in off the ledge.

I'm not sure where to start with you as you are quite the misguided fellow but I will point out your most egregious error.

As far as the Portis/Bailey trade goes, you know - the one that you simply "can't believe we did." I'm wondering exactly how much better you believe our team would be with Bailey?

If you have been paying any attention, you'd see that our defense has allowed 6 TDs in 5 games. I'm doubt we ever had a stretch like that with Champ.

As far as Portis goes, he hasn't been great. But do you believe Betts would be better? When we do get the offense turned around, who else would you rather have at RB?

[NomadicSkinFan]

Originally posted by Hauss

I don't think people buy into the fact that Gibbs had better talent-especially those who vote for the Hall of Fame.

I think Gibbs winning in strike years is a testament to that. He proved that given the same odds as every other coach, he still came out on top.

[ttr77]

Great post! I have to say I agree with just about everything. I don't know about you all, but it drives me crazy hearing this stuff about Denver RBs all being "a product of the system". Why the hell can't other teams use that system?!? I hope Gibbs and Bugel spend the bye week watching Denver's o-line play.