Art Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I may have missed it, but, I was surprised more people weren't talking about Warner starting. Though the graphic the Dolphins television network had up showed others starting, Warner was actually the guy. The team must be giving him a real chance to show he belongs. Though he didn't make any plays, he had a few plays where he looked great and a couple where he was just shoved around. Nice experience for the guy. Dockery is a real surprise player for me. He looks QUICK. On the Portis touchdown, he frogs the guy in front of him and is into the legs of the second level with great quickness. He looks fluid pulling and powerful. If that's the Dockery we'll see in the regular season he'll be a Pro Bowl guard this year. I really like the looks the defense is giving. Though the players are saying very little is being shown, I think that's tremendously misleading. We've shown so much more than the last couple of years already. This defense had eight-man fronts, wonderful layered blitzes, excellent stunts and games up front. In all, a very nice performance and especially so if we're being as vanilla as the guys are talking about. The defensive line dominated against the run and generated pretty consistent pressure in the passing game, though you can see most of the sacks we'll generate will come from varied blitz packages. Griffin, though, was repeatedly beating his man and forcing the QB to throw the ball earlier than he'd like. That was good to see. Much of the other positives have already been touched on. These just stood out to me in watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I do think Warner was being given a chance to show what he had with the #1's going against the #1's. The most encouraging thing on defense was that we played like this without LaVar, Barrow or Daniels -- 3 of our starting front 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris 44 Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I noticed Griffin also, thought he played a very good game. I also think Washington is quietly becoming the most consistant if not best all around player on the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Dockery is a real surprise player for me. He looks QUICK. On the Portis touchdown, he frogs the guy in front of him and is into the legs of the second level with great quickness. He looks fluid pulling and powerful. If that's the Dockery we'll see in the regular season he'll be a Pro Bowl guard this year. Agreed. Bugel isn't just blowing hot air. He pulls rather well for a 340lb man, does he not? And Bugel is imbueing him with a certain nastiness that I think he lacked coming into the league. I think Buges is "unleashing the tiger within", so to speak, and allowing Dockery to reach his full potential, something that never occurred under the previous regime. Above and beyond all of the techniques and schematic coaching improvements this staff brings in, their single greatest asset is their ability to get the most out of a player by understanding their individual psyche and coaching relative to the individual rather than to some long worn formula. The technical mastery of Buges and the Gibbs system doesn't hurt either, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Art I may have missed it, but, I was surprised more people weren't talking about Warner starting. Though the graphic the Dolphins television network had up showed others starting, Warner was actually the guy. The team must be giving him a real chance to show he belongs. Though he didn't make any plays, he had a few plays where he looked great and a couple where he was just shoved around. Nice experience for the guy. Yeah, Keim actually mentioned Warner in his game review article I believe. I've come to the conclusion that this is just going to be one of those "plug in the nondescript, fundamentally sound, unknown defensive lineman and get solid production out of him" defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Zen-like Todd Agreed. Bugel isn't just blowing hot air. He pulls rather well for a 340lb man, does he not? And Bugel is imbueing him with a certain nastiness that I think he lacked coming into the league. I think Buges is "unleashing the tiger within", so to speak, and allowing Dockery to reach his full potential, something that never occurred under the previous regime. Above and beyond all of the techniques and schematic coaching improvements this staff brings in, their single greatest asset is their ability to get the most out of a player by understanding their individual psyche and coaching relative to the individual rather than to some long worn formula. The technical mastery of Buges and the Gibbs system doesn't hurt either, though. My biggest fear when Gibbs and Bugel came in was that Dockery seemed slow of foot last year and I worried he would not be good moving around in the offense which our guards have to do. I can say that worry has been put aside. I'm astounded by the difference in Dockery's footwork and positioning. Given his size we always knew he was a guy who had the raw ability to be molded into something special. Bugel has had tremendously high praise for the guy, which alone, is enough to satisfy most worries about him. Saying he's the best guard Bugel has ever coached is a remarkable tribute to the kid and seeing him just look great out there is icing on the cake. With the perfect preseason so far from Samuels in terms of protection, and the known solid play of Thomas, if the Skins do put it together this year, it'll be hard to get these three players (Dockery included) the recognition of top players they deserve. Dockery, though, seems to be on the verge of being a dynamic, dominating guard who you can't ignore if it continues. Looking forward to seeing him struggle again though. I want to see him respond to a bad game before I'll go fully in the tank for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Zen-like Todd Yeah, Keim actually mentioned Warner in his game review article I believe. I've come to the conclusion that this is just going to be one of those "plug in the nondescript, fundamentally sound, unknown defensive lineman and get solid production out of him" defenses. Agreed. Salave'a even looks great in there. When Noble is healthy with the versatility of the guys we do have, the line seems to be a nice fit for Williams. I still think we are in need of true edge speed off the line. But, as long as the group is healthy and available, it seems to be a nice enough unit to be strong against the run -- something we should expect given that's the pedigree of the guys we do have -- while having some ability to get the pocket collapsed and free rushing lanes for blitzes. I doubt we'll have more than 15 total sacks from the defensive line all year. That's probably on the high end. But, I think there's little doubt Williams will generate pressure with the way he uses these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Art Saying he's the best guard Bugel has ever coached is a remarkable tribute to the kid and seeing him just look great out there is icing on the cake. I think Bugel actually said Dockery "could be" the best guard he's ever coached. I also think the implication was as in could become the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I did notice Warner seems to have some good hustle. - I wouldn't be surprised in the regular season to see other extra LB's come in to rush occasionaly while the opponents attention is on Lavar and Marcus W. I think that the pass rush will come in many forms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by thinker The most encouraging thing on defense was that we played like this without LaVar, Barrow or Daniels -- 3 of our starting front 7. I'm not sure if encouraging is the word I'd use. I noticed the Dolphins running left a lot, and going nowhere. It occurred to me that they had game-planned to run right at LaVar. Then, when LaVar didn't show up, they ran the plays anyway.* Lemar Marshall, in the plays that I focused on, seemed much more patient in containment than LaVar, and less likely to be locked up by a blocker and driven from the play. I replayed some of these plays in my mind with LaVar in place of Marshall, and it occurred to me that LaVar would be eight yards in the backfield, and the runner would be eight yards downfield. It's possible, from a scheme standpoint, that our defense is more fundamentally sound without LaVar. Of course, he will make the occasional unschemable plays, but is that enough? *Edit: I just checked the play-by-play. Through the first 3-1/2 quarters, the Dolphins ran left 8 times, up the middle 3 times, and right zero times. So I wasn't imagining this tendency to run left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris 44 Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 ASF, I agree with you on your point about Lavar, as great of a playmaker that he is, does his "playmaking" make up for him not doing the little things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 It was known for days that LaVar and Daniels would be out - the DE and LB on the left offensive side. I doubt Miami did extensive game planning - nobody really does in pre-season. More like they were trying to take advantage of two of our starters on that side being out and try to get a bit of a running game going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan I'm not sure if encouraging is the word I'd use. I noticed the Dolphins running left a lot, and going nowhere. It occurred to me that they had game-planned to run right at LaVar. Then, when LaVar didn't show up, they ran the plays anyway. Lemar Marshall, in the plays that I focused on, seemed much more patient in containment than LaVar, and less likely to be locked up by a blocker and driven from the play. I replayed some of these plays in my mind with LaVar in place of Marshall, and it occurred to me that LaVar would be eight yards in the backfield, and the runner would be eight yards downfield. It's possible, from a scheme standpoint, that our defense is more fundamentally sound without LaVar. Of course, he will make the occasional unschemable plays, but is that enough? A valid concern, but I think there are a few things to take into account. First of all, Miami's run game is pathetic, quite unlike Carolina or Denver. Second of all, Greg Williams is a very smart man. He know exactly what he has in every player, and will use them in the manner that will extract the most value out of that player for the good of the team. He's going to move Lavar around. He's going to line him up at DE, as you know. He will drop him back in coverage. Taken in combination with Lavar's (admittedly slow) maturation process, and a coaching staff that finally knows what its doing, and I don't think we'll see nearly as many instances of Lavar driving us nuts with his combination of freakish athleticism and boneheaded mistakes. Greg Williams will make Lavar's speed work FOR the defense, instead of against it, as has happened in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I'm not surprised in Dockery's progress. Look at how well Samuels is playing. The coaching and teaching the OL is receiving is the best they will ever get. Bugel is highly regarded as on the best OL coaches...ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 So far Buges has simply astounded me. This o-line was playing in a way I have never seen before. (I was too young to really remember the first go round.) His work is really being shown off. If it keeps improving, we're in for something special...... soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by thinker The most encouraging thing on defense was that we played like this without LaVar, Barrow or Daniels -- 3 of our starting front 7. OTOH, the writeup here in Gaineseville mentioned that the Phish were disapointed that their o-line hadn't improved, despite making four changes on the line last week. It's possible that we just took advantage of a rotten team that's trying to gel. Not that there's anything wrong with that: One mark of a good team is their ability to kick someone when they're down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panthro Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Did anyone notice that Rock has a tendency to stop and turn his shoulders about 1.0 seconds before he gets hit? It seems to completely stop any momentum he has built. Is this common for him or is it just the preseason worries of being injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan I'm not sure if encouraging is the word I'd use. I noticed the Dolphins running left a lot, and going nowhere. It occurred to me that they had game-planned to run right at LaVar. Then, when LaVar didn't show up, they ran the plays anyway.* Lemar Marshall, in the plays that I focused on, seemed much more patient in containment than LaVar, and less likely to be locked up by a blocker and driven from the play. I replayed some of these plays in my mind with LaVar in place of Marshall, and it occurred to me that LaVar would be eight yards in the backfield, and the runner would be eight yards downfield. It's possible, from a scheme standpoint, that our defense is more fundamentally sound without LaVar. Of course, he will make the occasional unschemable plays, but is that enough? *Edit: I just checked the play-by-play. Through the first 3-1/2 quarters, the Dolphins ran left 8 times, up the middle 3 times, and right zero times. So I wasn't imagining this tendency to run left. Of course, maybe the tendency to run left had something to do with this:Frustrated Dolphins move top-pick Carey to guardBy Greg A. Bedard Tuesday, August 17, 2004 DAVIE — In what must be a sign that he has been a disappointment thus far, first-round draft pick Vernon Carey was moved from right tackle to right guard Monday, a day that brought a lot of changes to the Dolphins' offensive line. "I don't know, maybe the light will go on and we'll see something with one of these backup guys," coach Dave Wannstedt said. "We moved Vernon and a couple of guys inside. Maybe something shows up different at guard than it did at tackle." Taylor Whitley was first-team right guard and Greg Jerman was moved to backup right tackle. Rex Hadnot moved from center to left guard and Billy Yates from guard to center. EMAIL THIS PRINT THIS POPULAR PAGES "Let's put a couple of those guys in there and see how they practice, let them get some work," Wannstedt said. "If something really grabs my attention, then we might stick with it." The Dolphins gave up a fourth-round draft choice to move up one spot in the draft to select Carey, so the team seemed almost certain he would be the answer at right tackle. Instead, he has had a tough time learning the new position, which doesn't surprise left tackle Wade Smith. "It's definitely tough to play tackle coming in from college," said Smith, who did it as a rookie last season. "He didn't even play tackle last year. Picking up the offense is the biggest thing. This early in the season, I hadn't even picked up the offense." Carey, who played right guard for Miami last season, said he's looking at the move as an opportunity, not a demotion. "I feel good that I can make a push for the starting lineup," Carey said. "It's great to be doing it now as opposed to the first or second game of the season. I've got to take advantage of this." The emergence of unheralded John St. Clair also has factored into the decision. For St. Clair, a permanent home at right tackle has made the difference this season. The Rams had the fifth-year player moving among six positions — including tight end — sometimes from practice to practice. Start Lemar Marshall! Bench Lavar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Redman - My only question is did the phins run left because they thought LaVar and Daniels would be there or becasue they thought they wouldn't be or for some unrelated reason? Realistically I just don't think the phins - in their second preseason game are going to form that elaborate of a game plan that's based on who is on the other side of the ball. They're desparately just trying to get a little action on their side of the ball. Honestly, do you think the phins would have gotten any more yards if LaVar had been playing (with the benefit of 6 months of coaching from Gregg Williams)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Maybe they were trying to pick on Marshall and/or run away from Marcus Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by Zero Cool Maybe they were trying to pick on Marshall and/or run away from Marcus Washington. Bingo. It was in the Washington Post Wednesday or Thursday that Lavar, Barrow, Betts and Daniels wouldn't be maikng the trip. - They probably thought they'd run to that side to build a little confidence in their running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Or maybe, this being the preseason and all, and being that in preseason teams don't tend to waste their time "gameplanning" since any personnel they'd likely target in such a gameplan aren't even going to play more than a series or two, the Phins simply ran left because they wanted to, you know, work on running left. I know, silly me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by Om Or maybe, this being the preseason and all, and being that in preseason teams don't tend to waste their time "gameplanning" since any personnel they'd likely target in such a gameplan aren't even going to play more than a series or two, the Phins simply ran left because they wanted to, you know, work on running left. I know, silly me. Winner. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Dockery 6'6 345 that can pull. Man that's got to be a nightmare for a DE. Who said Snyder and Cerrato don't know how to pick em'. We are watching the boy king, become the "MAN". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 What impressed me the most was seeing the lineman getting downfield, clearling the way for Portis on a couple sweeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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