chomerics Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by G-Train I'm angry and upset right now. I'm for the draft because I believe that is what it's going to take to win this war on terror. I believe we are all going to have to do our part. Whether or not we have a draft is up to those people that are smarter than I am, but if asked I will go. I already serve my country everyday, by guarding violent criminals, and keeping them off the streets so people like yourself can sleep a little easier at night. If I'm asked to kill for my country. I will. G-train. I see that you are pissed, I am as well, but to nuke the whole area will accomplish nothing. We are in the midst of this crap and we need to find a clear solution, something that has not been conveyed with total effectiveness. When we took over Iraq, there was an initial grace period, but we allowed lawlessness to run rampart in the streets, in hindsight we could have done sooo many things differently. What has become evidently clear, at least to me, is that we need a leader to lead us by example. We can not lash out an attack at Saudi Arabia, one of our few and only allies in this war and the middle east. We must take the high road, and go after AL Qaeda, something I think we're not that focused on right now. We have to infultrate their ranks from the inside and exploit it. We need to root out the network from the inside out, not the otherway around. Bush claimed he was sick of swatting bees, but unfortunately, you don't kill a bee with a sledge hammer either, it only stirrs up the nest, as we have seen. We need to beat them at their game. We need to lay low, bide out time and strike them when they're least expecting it. It's a lot easier to drop a bomb on a group of people, than it is to round them up with a bunch of troops. We should use our troops as a cotainment force, or a surrounding force and pinch them off at the waist. This latest insodent has led me to believe that a military force is not necessarily the best way to beat the group of terrorists. We need to use our intel and our operatives to our advantage, monitor them and attack. We need to take out the head of the unit, and cut them from the inside out. We need it infultrate them like they infultrate us. In order to do this, we need other governments to be on board with us and we have to make this a global issue. We need leadership for this. We need to change our thinking on global policy in the middle east if we ever want to win the war. We ned to change opinions of Americans in the middle east. We need to erase the hatrid that we've allowed to fester for the past 20 years. Only after we do this will we be able to get a leg up on the war on terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quettefan Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I believe we need a draft. Not only to spell the troops that have to perform multiple tours of duty, but also as a deterrent to China. Mainland China wants rogue Taiwan back in the fold and it's just a matter of time before that tinder-box becomes a military conflict that we've already committed ourselves to. What better time for China to act than when our forces are spread thin as it is. More troops focusing on policing our border and airport terminals (like the way the Isralie's secure their terminals) would also help. Apologies on re-opening the political thread, but I agree with the previous poster that the enlisted ranks are too heavily made up of poor and lower middle class minorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Ok, correct me if I'm wrong. Now, I wasn't around when they had the draft. But, if you are drafted, you have no choice but to go into the military, right? If this is the case which I'm sure it is, how is it good to potentially draft young people who aren't willing or capable of killing another human being? My cousin will be 18 in a little over a year and if the draft came around when she turns 18 and she was drafted, I can tell you that she isn't capable of taking someone's life. I never understood the concept of the draft. How do you know what kind of person you are drafting? I'm going to guess that if a person hasn't entered the military voluntarily, chances are they may not be able to deal with or perform certain duties within. My cousin is an example. Am I off base here? I just don't like the concept of the draft. Forcing people to fight? Seriously, am I wrong about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 O.K. How many people do you draft? Where do you put them for training? Why not open up the Enlistment quota's? Why not get the people that *WANT* to go and not the people you *MAKE* go. At 29 Im sure there is a recruiting station somewhere near you that would be happy to give you an a firing lane to focus that anger down... Sure do miss FT. Dix, NJ... one of the best Basic Training centers in my lil opinion... another reason we need to do some work before we just grab 100k+ people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorris Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I think Basic training would be good for G-train. The resocialization would help him better identify with his prisoners. It just so happens that the Army is currently in need of mindless killers. How do you feel about convoy duty? I know what your thinking, 'G-train need BIG gun.' There, there, we've got ya covered. G-Train...Army of one! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Mock me all you want to, it's easy to do seated at your computer. I already lay my life on the line for each and every one of you everyday, by guarding people who would cut my throat, and yours if they got the chance. I deal with a part of society that most of you don't want to know about, so if I seem a little hot headed, maybe that's why. Why don't you all try doing what I do for a day, and we'll see how far all your clever witticisms and low-blow humor get you with the uneducated thugs in the penitentiary. Rest assured, If asked to go, I would go, and I wonder how many of you would do the same. I admit, yesterday I somewhat went off the deep end, but I had a rough day, and Johnson having his head sawed off didn't make me feel any better. Even so it's amazing to me how many of you become completely hostile as soon as somebody even mentions the mere possibility of a draft. Instead of making thoughtful commentary on the matter, you attack me. That's great. :finger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 wow, with your mentality i can't believe they'd let you gaurd prisoners. you sound like the kind that would beat 'em down for looking at you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by AJWatson3 wow, with your mentality i can't believe they'd let you gaurd prisoners. you sound like the kind that would beat 'em down for looking at you wrong. See above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 I had a couple choice words for you, but I'm not even gonna go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 G, Your right we who sit here typing have never done the scary awesome work that you have and we beg for your worldly forgiveness. We are but grasshoppers to your knowledge and am unworthy or your time and comment.... Ohh, and go throw a tantrum somewhere else.. It's not about YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 G - Train, What you do is very much appreciated. There is no question about that. But your suggestion of a draft seemed a bit on the reactionary side, obviously. As I said earlier, I don't think forcing people to go into the military is the best idea. Times have changed. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see a draft being nearly as accepted now as it was years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by Thiebear G, Your right we who sit here typing have never done the scary awesome work that you have and we beg for your worldly forgiveness. We are but grasshoppers to your knowledge and am unworthy or your time and comment.... Ohh, and go throw a tantrum somewhere else.. It's not about YOU! See above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan] G - Train, What you do is very much appreciated. There is no question about that. But your suggestion of a draft seemed a bit on the reactionary side, obviously. As I said earlier, I don't think forcing people to go into the military is the best idea. Times have changed. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see a draft being nearly as accepted now as it was years ago. I appreciate your post, finally somebody talks about the issue at hand besides attacking me. Notice the title of this thread that I started was "Should we have a draft to fight the war on terror?" That was an invitation to all those that have an opinion on the subject, to post it. I never said you guys had to agree with mine, or even like it. I get emotional about things of this nature, because I have a heart and I don't like to see innocent people getting killed for no reason. I admit, as I already have, that I may have gone off the deep end yesterday, for reasons already stated. Thanks for not jumping on the "bash G-Train" band wagon. Apparently, to some people on this board, everybody can have an opinion as long as it's the same as theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted June 19, 2004 Author Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by Thiebear G, Your right we who sit here typing have never done the scary awesome work that you have and we beg for your worldly forgiveness. We are but grasshoppers to your knowledge and am unworthy or your time and comment.... Ohh, and go throw a tantrum somewhere else.. It's not about YOU! Thierbear, your sarcasm is duly noted. If you can show me how the last 10 posts or so "have not been about ME!" I would like to see that. If I thought that you guys were unworthy of "my time and comment" than why did I start the thread? I honestly wanted serious dialogue on the subject, but I guess I turned people off with my "insane" comments on the subject. Oh well. Cest la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 We should only have a draft if terrorism comes to our country again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I think a draft would remove much of the fifty or so percent support for the war that exists right now. I understand your anger at what is happening right now, but it's our moronic dependance on foreign oil imports that makes us so vulnerablle to this situation in the first place. It drives most of our foreign policy. If production of this imported oil were cut enough, it could drive inflation to the point where the dollar totally collapses (it's already so low not being accepted for exchange in some countries), and then were're not in the position to fight or defend anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by Gilgamesh I think a draft would remove much of the fifty or so percent support for the war that exists right now. Sad commentary on our society if that were true. That being said, reinstituting the draft at this time would be much more trouble than it is worth. We would end up spending money and other needed resources just to establish a basic training system able handle the throughput of the "however many 18-20 year olds" that are out there. Additionally, the military has changed since the last draft with respect to training. It's no longer send "Johnny" to basic and give him a gun. Today's military requires significant training that once again we are not in a position to support. Could a situation arise that called for a draft? I think so, but this isn't it. The answer right now is resolve, determination and a united front. Things will get better, but it will take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 I will believe a draft when I see it. The Air Force is cutting back some 20,000 troops right now. yes, the Army is stopping people from getting out but the draft would affect the entire armed services and if the Air Force is cutting back, I don't think Congress can justify a draft. Oh just to make it clear, I did 23 years in the military and my son is in the military so I do support it, but I just don't think there will be a draft or we need a draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 How can you not bring politics into this debate? HELL NO TO the draft. There is a large % of troops over there now who dont even believe in what we are doing:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Originally posted by RDSKNfaithfull How can you not bring politics into this debate? HELL NO TO the draft. There is a large % of troops over there now who dont even believe in what we are doing:doh: I would be interested in seeing some statistics to support that claim. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Originally posted by Stu I would be interested in seeing some statistics to support that claim. Thanks. Some skewed statistics?:doh: Most kids in the military joined during peace time to get a education they couldn't afford or to get out of their small town and be independent. I live and work very close to Ft. Belvoir and speak to young guys in the military everyday as well as older Vets that dont agree with what we are doing over there(dont get me wrong their are a larger group probally that support the cause but fact remains there is a large %). A interesting statistic I would like to see is how many kids get out first chance they get. The number would surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Skin Fan Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Easy question to answer-----------HELL NO Things would have to get 100 times worse to even consider it. I can't think of a circumstance where it would come about. Maybe if we went to war with China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Originally posted by RDSKNfaithfull Some skewed statistics?:doh: Most kids in the military joined during peace time to get a education they couldn't afford or to get out of their small town and be independent. I live and work very close to Ft. Belvoir and speak to young guys in the military everyday as well as older Vets that dont agree with what we are doing over there(dont get me wrong their are a larger group probally that support the cause but fact remains there is a large %). A interesting statistic I would like to see is how many kids get out first chance they get. The number would surprise you. Perhaps. I've been over there already a few times and from my vantage point a majority (including an overwhelming majority of my peers) are behind what we are doing. All are tired and some will leave like you say but many realize keeping "them" occupied over there is better than "them" being here. Also, for those who "joined during peace time to get a (sic) education they couldn't afford or get out of their small town" I really don't have an sympathy. Yes you get benefits, but you join for service period. If you didn't then that is your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Stu -- right on, brotha. The education line has always been bull in my book. I had soldiers try to pull that on me whenever I had an unsavory task for us to do. Or when the question of what they'd actually do in a combat situation came up. Always struck me as sad-funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Originally posted by Stu Perhaps. I've been over there already a few times and from my vantage point a majority (including an overwhelming majority of my peers) are behind what we are doing. All are tired and some will leave like you say but many realize keeping "them" occupied over there is better than "them" being here. Also, for those who "joined during peace time to get a (sic) education they couldn't afford or get our of their small town" I really don't have an sympathy. Yes you get benefits, but you join for service period. If you didn't then that is your fault. I agree to a point about the sympathy for kids trying to get a free education during peace time but most kids are hounded by these recruiters non stop(and you cant say that they are not salesman trying to convince them and use that free school thing to entice). I cant agree with the tone of your post though, that is Your belief. I have talked to many who have gotten out and dont agree. It would be like arguing all serviceman support Bush:nono: If you are a troop thanks for your service:D (Its just not for everybody) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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