EvilMonkeyBoy Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfanforlife OK , since we had a thread about overrated Quaterbacks, now i wanna know who ya think is the most overrated head coach. I pick, Mike holgrem. He hasnt done jack since he left green bay. he was suppose to be one of the best head coach in the league. he got paid and they even made him the GM. He supposely had a good team this past yr and he couldnt even take the seahawks to the playoffs. brett dont need holgrem. its the other way around. Does anyone think Mike shanahan is overrated too? Its Holmgren, and the Seahawks made the playoffs last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I'll say it. Parcells. Take L.T. (love him or hate him, he was the most dominant defensive football player of all time) off the Giants and Parcells doesn't get close to the Superbowl. His record against Coach Gibbs is skewed. The Giants had better personnel almost every year, especially L.T. and Phil Simms. Give Coach Gibbs the personnel that the 49ers and Giants had in the eighties and he would have 5 rings, minimum. I am not saying Parcells isn't a good coach, but please. According to Dr. Z, King and Fat Lenny, he walks on water. Ralph Wiley said on 1/9/04 in his ESPN article "Killer Coaches and Playoff Hunches" the following: "Gibbs, not Parcells, won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks. In fact, he was doing this against Bill Parcells. Walsh too, head up. So don't be bringing no overblown Bill Parcells up in here because he intimidates you, or chooses your friend to ghost write his memoirs, or makes a great fist, or browbeats your rivals to your secret glee in press conferences." I personally believe this is directed at King or Z, who both have their lips permanently attached to Parcells a$$...look at Z's article today in SI. Anyhow, we'll see this year. By the way, Brian Billick is the second coming of Parcells. Take Ray Lewis (a poor mans version of L.T.) off the Rat-birds, and that team never sniffs the playoffs. I have met him and he is a great motivator, but without Ray Ray and playing in the worst division in the N.F.L. they ain't sh!t. HTTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Mike Sherman is so overrated, I hound my friend from Wisc about him all the time. He can win games which is more than Spurrier could ever do, but he chokes when it comes down to it in the playoffs. He goes for it on 4th and short before the half.... but does not go for the WIN when he is on the Eagles' 40 yard line and only a foot to go?!?! Go for the win.. Ahman was running all over them. Even if he were not able to make the first down, the Eagles still would have had yards to gain with time ticking off the clock. Horrible playcalling throughout that game. All they had to do was run Ahman left, right , and up the middle, and instead Sherman decides to make Favre do QB acrobatics (including that throw at the end of that game). Why would you have Favre put up a prayer like that when there you aren't pressed for time in OT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW31 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by SmashMouth I'll say it. Parcells. Take L.T. (love him or hate him, he was the most dominant defensive football player of all time) off the Giants and Parcells doesn't get close to the Superbowl. His record against Coach Gibbs is skewed. The Giants had better personnel almost every year, especially L.T. and Phil Simms. Give Coach Gibbs the personnel that the 49ers and Giants had in the eighties and he would have 5 rings, minimum. I am not saying Parcells isn't a good coach, but please. According to Dr. Z, King and Fat Lenny, he walks on water. Ralph Wiley said on 1/9/04 in his ESPN article "Killer Coaches and Playoff Hunches" the following: "Gibbs, not Parcells, won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks. In fact, he was doing this against Bill Parcells. Walsh too, head up. So don't be bringing no overblown Bill Parcells up in here because he intimidates you, or chooses your friend to ghost write his memoirs, or makes a great fist, or browbeats your rivals to your secret glee in press conferences." I personally believe this is directed at King or Z, who both have their lips permanently attached to Parcells a$$...look at Z's article today in SI. Anyhow, we'll see this year. By the way, Brian Billick is the second coming of Parcells. Take Ray Lewis (a poor mans version of L.T.) off the Rat-birds, and that team never sniffs the playoffs. I have met him and he is a great motivator, but without Ray Ray and playing in the worst division in the N.F.L. they ain't sh!t. HTTR. ...snicker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by SmashMouth By the way, Brian Billick is the second coming of Parcells. Take Ray Lewis (a poor mans version of L.T.) off the Rat-birds, and that team never sniffs the playoffs. I have met him and he is a great motivator, but without Ray Ray and playing in the worst division in the N.F.L. they ain't sh!t. Well, Parcells DID get to the Superbowl when he was on the Pats.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by ramseyskins Well, Parcells DID get to the Superbowl when he was on the Pats.............. And got smacked. I made a point out of saying he is a good coach. The topic is "Overrated Head Coaches". Hearing King, Z, Fatty, etc. fawn over him like school girls is tired. Ramseyskins, dead on. Shanahan is another example of having an All-Time Great player on his team that can single-handingly control and win a game. Hasn't done sh!t since. HTTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by SmashMouth Ramseyskins, dead on. Shanahan is another example of having an All-Time Great player on his team that can single-handingly control and win a game. Hasn't done sh!t since. Yeah, agreed about Shanahan, but at least Shanahan did win Superbowls with Elway. Sherman hasn't been able to do jack with Favre even though he should have been going much further in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 How is Billick overrated? He won the Super Bowl with a team void of ANY offense. Trent Dilfer was his QB. He had a rookie RB. Nothing at wide reciever. The most talented player on his offense in '00 was an over-the-hill TE. Of course they had one of the greatest defenses in NFL history, but that offense was an absolute joke talent wise. He milked them for everything they were worth and then some. The Ravens are consistently competetive despite a significant dearth of talent on the offensive side of the ball compared to other teams. I think Billick is a loud-mouth prick, but I have no doubt that he can coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by OrangeSkin How is Billick overrated? He won the Super Bowl with a team void of ANY offense. Trent Dilfer was his QB. He had a rookie RB. Nothing at wide reciever. The most talented player on his offense in '00 was an over-the-hill TE. Of course they had one of the greatest defenses in NFL history, but that offense was an absolute joke talent wise. He milked them for everything they were worth and then some. The Ravens are consistently competetive despite a significant dearth of talent on the offensive side of the ball compared to other teams. I think Billick is a loud-mouth prick, but I have no doubt that he can coach. Again, I didn't say he couldn't coach. I made a point of saying he is a great motivator, but the topic is "Overrated". But isn't offense Billicks claim to fame? I'll admit, I am biased regarding Billick because I lived in the Baltimore area for almost 10 years and am sick of hearing about him from their one paper town. But take Ray off that team and Billick is in the Al Groh, Ray Handley & Norv Turner class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrossmansGators Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Im still wondering how anyone can say Bill Bellichick is overrated. His defensive schemes and flawless offensive gameplans have worked wondefully. Yeah, he doesnt have 500yd passing days and 200 yds for his RBs but what he does works. He took a scrapheap team for the most part and made them into soldiers who followed a terrific gameplan. Overrated? Ask Peyton if Bill is overrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by GrossmansGators Im still wondering how anyone can say Bill Bellichick is overrated. His defensive schemes and flawless offensive gameplans have worked wondefully. Yeah, he doesnt have 500yd passing days and 200 yds for his RBs but what he does works. He took a scrapheap team for the most part and made them into soldiers who followed a terrific gameplan. Overrated? Ask Peyton if Bill is overrated I think you're talking about Bill Billickcheck, the head coach who has won 3 superbowls in Bostimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Yeah, offense is Billick's claim to fame when he has ridiculous talent on that side of the ball, specifically as O-coordinator of the Vikings when they had Moss and Robert Smith. The Raven's Super Bowl season was a demonstration of offensive brilliance. There are not many coaches that could take a team with such depleted talent to a championship. Billick is one of them. He swallowed his ego and molded his scheme to his talent instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Cripes, if that team had the offensive talent that the Vikings did they may have gone undefeated. He did an unbelievable job considering the dearth of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Gruden does come to mind. I think it was Monte Kiffin and that defense that won him that Superbowl. He is just young, good looking and charismatic so the media loved him. I do respect his hard work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by OrangeSkin Yeah, offense is Billick's claim to fame when he has ridiculous talent on that side of the ball, specifically as O-coordinator of the Vikings when they had Moss and Robert Smith. The Raven's Super Bowl season was a demonstration of offensive brilliance. There are not many coaches that could take a team with such depleted talent to a championship. Billick is one of them. He swallowed his ego and molded his scheme to his talent instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Cripes, if that team had the offensive talent that the Vikings did they may have gone undefeated. He did an unbelievable job considering the dearth of talent. You say "because of", I say "in spite of". What offensive brilliance? He had a solid offensive line. A stud running back. A Hall of fame TE. Solid and dependable wide recievers. A veteran QB who didn't make mistakes. And what were his offensive results? That team, that went almost scoreless for 4 games, won the Super Bowl on the back of Ray Lewis and Marvin Lewis' defense. Not to mention a $90M+ payroll. Offensive brilliance? Unbelievable job? Dearth of talent? Put down the bong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFaninOKC Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Maybe I could get shot for this one....... Andy Reid. Three times in the NFC Championship Game, two at home, and choke city. Norv Turner. Will get sucked in by the Black Hole. Only had two winning seasons. One was pissed away after a 7-1 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTYJR Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 of the recent and active coaches, I would have to say Dave Wannstadt of miami, Norv Turner of oakland, Steve Mariucci of Detroit, John Gruden of tampa bay, Jim Haslet of new orleans, Dennis Erickson of san fran, Bill Cowher of Pittsburgh, and Dom Capers of houston. Of the older coaches, I would say the most overrated of all time was George Seifert of san fransisco, he took over a team that bill walsh created and put them on auto-pilot until they went into the ground then san fran brought in mariucci who barried the team, stripped it of all talent and transformed a once proud organization into a laughingstock, whipping boys of the NFC west, it amazes me how in the hell is mariucci still a head coach in the NFL, someone please explain, WTF was detroit thinking when they hired him? look at what mariucci did in san fran with talented players, and to come to detroit void of any consistant talent, there is a reason detroit is always picking near the top of the draft, changing coaches works if the team was underachieving with its talent, by if there is no talent, how do you blame the coach, san diego is in the same situation, schottenheimer is a good coach of a team team void of any consistant talent, those 2 teams need to get new front offices and shake things up a bit. the true meaning of the word idiot is someone who does the same thing over and over again expecting different results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 SmashMouth - Imagine what Norv Turner, Steve Spurrier, or even Mike Holmgren's sorry ass would've done with that offense. I guarantee you they wouldn't have made the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikus Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 How could #1 not be Spurrier after what he did to us. But of coaches who still have a job i think Mariucci while ok is highly overrated for his performance through time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLiNT0N P0RTiS Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Gibbs, HAHA! just kidding! He's the best coach! I think Gruden is very overrated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Mike Sherman is overrated in my books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Mike Martz hands down. this guy has a very talented team (thanks to DVermiel), and every year he finds a way to lose 2 or so games because of poor coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Okay, one more time. What did Billick do with that offense? The Ratbirds upset a better Titan team, due in large part because George was terrified of Ray, who was at the top of his game. They then beat the Raiders after Gannon was injured by a huge cheapshot by fat-a$$ Siragusa. They then beat an average Giants team, who played the S.B. like scared little beyotches. The offense did next to nothing, except not lose games. They played very conservative and allowed their defense, the most intimidating since the '86 Bears, to dominate. Give Coach Gibbs that offense, that year, along with that defense and in the weakest division in football, and they go undefeated. Again, Billick is a great motivator. The Ravens play the "Us against the World" schtick very well. I am not faulting them for winning the Super Bowl when everything fell into place for them. But...pompous a$$ Billick is overrated and giving him the credit for the championship does a great disservice to Ray, without whom Billick wouldn't even have the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 The list begins with Shanahan. He rode Elway and TD to two Super Bowls. Since those two left, the Broncos haven't even won a playoff game. As Henry pointed out, they've spent as prolifically as the Redskins on players. Shanahan has hand-picked the roster. Maybe it is more of an indictment of him as a GM, but he's had talent. He can't hold Gibbs' jock as a coach. Gibbs - 3 rings, 3 different QBs, 3 different RBs, and none in the HOF. Shanahan - 2 rings, 1 HOF QB and 1 arguably HOF RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nostril Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I know if you asked around here people would be say Bill Bellicick. They wouldn't have any backup, except that they're angry with him for being successful. I live an hour from cleveland and browns fans abound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTYJR Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 I keep on seeing people put spermier on that list, but this over rated, right, meaning someone held you in the highest regards, personally I hated spermier before he got into the NFL. all the coaches on my list were held in somewhat high of regard, a couple were hired by a second team after completely screwing up there first teams. billick is a decent coach, I don't care for him, but he is still a good coach, anyone who can win and be successful despite the lack of anything resembling NFL quality players in the passing game. bellichick is a name that I have seen frequently, how are they overrated when they win back to back super bowls? someone explain that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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