Cskin Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I think the issue is the position they put Trotter in the defense. If he's asked to stand back 7 yards from the LOS and REACT to the offensive play....than he's in over his head and has a tendancy to take himself out of plays. If his role is to attack the LOS and he has success there, than we should see the Trotter of old.... and the freelancing and out of position plays will cease. He'll be happy if he make a difference in a defense designed to allow him to play downhill and attack the opposing backfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I believe that if Trotter won't restructure his contract for some cap room then we need to cut him, and this is why CAP HIT 2004- $3.862M 2005- $5.662M 2006- $6.162M 2007- $7.662M 2008- $8.662M 2009- $7.662M 2010- $8.660M He need to restructure his contract this year to stay and prove he can stay healthy all season or he will get cut for sure next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atloldskin Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Art is right on this issue too! Some of you need to review the salaries of the team which is listed on this board before you comment. We take a big hit if we cut Trotter this year. If Trotter is let go, it will be the following year. Give him a year under Williams to see if the style changes. Remember, he was still one of your leading tacklers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 So your saying lets keep him because of the big cap hit we will get but what you need to look at is it just gets bigger after next year so if he won't restructure cut him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 No way. Trotter's perfect for the attacking 46 defense that Williams favors. His best years in Philly were where he was used to charge through gaps and make plays in the backfield. That's how he will be used here with Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Cutting Trotter would be enormously stupid for the reasons stated by those in thread that have urged to retain him. Also, if we cut before June 1, we take a cap hit around $2.3 million. Of course, if we cut him afterwards, we clear around $1.7 million, but that's hardly worth it given the fact that there's a precipitous decline in talent level from Trotter to whoever'll be filling in for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 What I am saying is with the production and the cap numbers they just get bigger and bigger every year lets cut this year because it's as cheap as it's going to get and realize that he won't be here in 2010 and find someone a little cheaper or move LaVar into the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 We'll be in a better position to assess that next offseason. Once again, Trotter has played in a system ill-suited to his strengths and has done so recovering from an ACL injury. If he plays up to most of his potential, the cap hit for a MLB like that is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Alot of guys won't be around in 2010. I'll take it a step further and say that he's played well, (keeping in mind a few costly mistakes), despite the system he was in. Things go well with williams, he'll restructure I'm sure. Lavar did. And no, moving him to the middle is not an easy option I don't think. 2 different positions there and though he may be able to pull it off, that would be another year of learning for him. that and I don't think that position plays to his strenths and ablilitys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Mo. Redskins22 I believe that if Trotter won't restructure his contract for some cap room then we need to cut him, and this is why CAP HIT 2004- $3.862M 2005- $5.662M 2006- $6.162M 2007- $7.662M 2008- $8.662M 2009- $7.662M 2010- $8.660M What I am saying is with the production and the cap numbers they just get bigger and bigger every year lets cut this year because it's as cheap as it's going to get and realize that he won't be here in 2010 and find someone a little cheaper or move LaVar into the middle. Mo, Hey, I feel for ya, bro. I ran the same numbers you did. And I made some similar posts earlier (I see you've got three in this thread, with no responses). Logic doesn't fare too well here. People see that it's cheaper to keep Trotter this year than cut him (which might be true), and they see the potential for Trotter's attacking style under Williams, and that's enough. What they aren't factoring is that it will become essentially impossible to keep Trotter after 2004, and that we might as well take the cap hit now. We're trying to build something under Gibbs and Williams, and the numbers say Trotter can't be part of that new era after next year. Even worse, keeping Trotter for another year will block us from making moves now and next year that have longterm benefit. We need to make commitments this year and next to key players of the Gibbs II era. When you can see clearly that a player like Trotter can't be part of the new regime for long, it's better to cut your losses immediately and move on. That's logic, not emotion, talking. And it's said with no animus toward Trotter, who seems like a good guy who showed up for Gibbs and wants to go to work for him. Now, if Trotter wants to take a major pay cut to stay, that's a different story. But with the contract as it is, there can be only one conclusion: asta la vista, good buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 It's obvious from his restrained venting at the end of the season that his heart wasn't fully behind the direction Spurrier's team was going. I'm sure there's a chance we'll see different things from Trotter this season for this reason and others stated above. Getting rid of young talent for the sake of the cap is a stupid thing to do. Let me repeat, getting rid of young talent for the sake of the cap is a stupid thing to do. One more time, getting rid of young talent for the sake of the cap is a stupid thing to do..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skillari Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 This just adds to my point about Trotter not being worth the investment. 35 MILLION DOLLARS plus 7 million to sign . Are we going to keep him around while we could loose potential free agent signings in the future do to a lack of cap space regardless if he is kept or released after next year? He has had 2 years and say what you want about the injury. Priest Holmes has come back quite nicely from hip surgery and he gets beat up much more than a linebacker does. I like Trotter I just hate his cap numbers and the fact that we could miss out on other people. Nothing says he has to renegotiate. You say not to get rid of young guys to save cap space but what about the young guys we wont get do to limited cap space. But I have to admit if G Williams and J Gibbs want to keep him they know a lot more than I do. They will do whats right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Okay ASF, how's it "logic" if you cut someone with no obvious replacement? Got one right off the bat? I'd love to hear it and how you can justify a $1.7 million cap hit and the talent vacuum we'll be suffering from at MLB. Also, how's it "logic" to cut a player who was -- and is still -- recovering from an ACL injury? Add to that playing in a system that forced him to adjust to it rather than system tailoring its schemes to his strengths? I'll say it again, if Trotter starts to play up to his potential, those cap numbers will be more than reasonable. In short, if anyone's the impetuous one, it's you. Your shortsigthedness blinds you to the fact that even if Trotter was playing at a level warranting his release -- which he clearly is not -- the circumstances set forth above in conjunction with the fact that one more year isn't going to kill us on the cap (in fact, it'll eat one more year off of his pro-rated signing bonus) makes him a keeper for at least this year. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Why is it every offseason there are always those who look at a cap number and do nothing more than panic and say, "hey, we need to cut this guy" Oh the magic of renegotiation we all soon forget. And also we always seem to forget players LOVE to renegotiate because it drops another fat bonus in their bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 you build your defense from the inside out. defensive line and corners first. if the team needs cap dollars to build the front wall I have no doubt the team will scrutinize what it has been getting value-wise from the LBs and safeties. I have not been impressed by Trotter's abilities in the run game. Where is that consistent hammer in the middle we were supposedly getting for $7 million? Too often Trotter has been neutralized in battles he should be winning at the point of attack. Then we go back to all those isolations earlier in the season where we were able to track #54 hitting the wrong hole or overrunning plays altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 oh yeah, by the way how much are the Cowboys paying Dat Nguyen or the Panthers Dan Morgan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Thanks ASF. He may be a good fit into Williams system this year but all of you are missing the point if he will not take a major cut in pay we need to cut him now for cap reasons in the future. He may not be 100% yet but the cap hit we take in the future is going to be a lot bigger and you tell me it's better to cut a guy 2 or 3 years down the road and the cap hit is 5 to 8 Million compaired to 2.3 Million it is this year. We need to find a player that is a good hard working players without the huge name bring him in to replace Trotter this year, Gibbs and Williams will be able to find someone. THINK ABOUT IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by goldenster95 Okay ASF, how's it "logic" if you cut someone with no obvious replacement? You sell Gregg Williams short. I think Gregg Williams will find a good cheap guy to fill the slot and play his system. Gregg Williams will put the money on the premium positions where physical talent matters most: CB and DL. LB is a coach's position: that is, a coach and his system is the biggest variable for performance. There are very few exceptions, for Hall of Fame players like Ray Lewis. If you're going to go against smart team budgeting, as we just did with LaVar, you're taking a calculated risk. Doing it twice and dumping two premium contracts into the LB corps is just stupid. Joe Gibbs and Gregg Williams aren't stupid. I'm not going to waste more breath on this argument, because I'm satisfied we'll get the correct decision by the team. Either Trotter restructures with a pay cut in future seasons, or he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 the Redskins found middle linebackers in the past as low round picks, undrafted free agents and veterans released from other clubs and won championships and now you are telling me that Trotter is the only game in town to getting decent MLB play in 2004 and beyond? :laugh: Please. You look at the teams that made the postseason this year and how much they are spending on their inside linebackers. Anyone other than Ray Lewis making more than Trotter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 My biggest deal is lets cut some overpriced cap bustin players we have and find some cheaper and younger ones for the next few years to gibbs something to build with that might have a chance at being around more than a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skillari Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 where are the bears and dolphins with their dominant ILB's? At home which is where we will be if we dont take care of our other needs. also who says G williams will be around for more than one season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Originally posted by Skillari where are the bears and dolphins with their dominant ILB's? At home which is where we will be if we dont take care of our other needs. also who says G williams will be around for more than one season? Umm...we have plenty of cap room to take care of our needs without cutting Trotter. There are plenty of other places to make up some money. Trotter will perform a lot better this coming year as will the entire defense. There's no need to cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Where else are you going to make up the money if it's not Trotter. Maybe Samules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo. Redskins22 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 One thing about my post are I hard on injured players because once they start getting hurt every year they are not worth the money they are getting paid, like Samuels and Trotter is coming off an injury but I think it's just best to cut him now than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkipper Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Here is how it breaks down: Trotter has $5.8 million dollars remaining on his signing bonus. (The only guaranteed portion of his contract) So if we cut him this year we take a $5.8 million hit on the cap for 2004. Limiting our ability to sign Champ, Kearse, RB, etc... If he plays this year he charges $3.82 million against the cap. If he plays this year and we cut him next year he will charge $4.65 against the cap in 2005. If we play him this year and play him in 2005, he will count $5.66 against the cap in 2005. Overall, it looks like a very dumb move to cut him this offseason unless you really think he is an incompetant player because by playing him, it has less effect on the cap than any other option, this year or in the future. So even though the Washington Post reports it may clear up money to sign other players....they are wrong. Just because they are writers doesn't mean they understand the cap. We all know that us Extremeskins nerds know more about the cap than everyone except Joe Mendes. (And that includes Vinny) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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