NavyDave Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I wouldnt mind keeping him but if he shows the i am about the money tendencies in Feb tag him and trade em. And just go out and get a monster D line to compensate. Jimoh will have someone to groom him since I do like his size and speed combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I wouldnt mind keeping him but if he shows the i am about the money tendencies in Feb tag him and trade em. And just go out and get a monster D line to compensate. Jimoh will have someone to groom him since I do like his size and speed combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Champ is the best and once we get some pressure on the QB from the defensive line. I'm still trying to understand what has Champ done to make so many fans dislike him? He has to play for the same salary and watch countless free agents get tons of money from our owner. Deion got so much it wasn't funny and I know i didn't like seeing him in our colors. Champ goes to the Pro Bowl every year so somebody thinks he's one of the best. His time come up for free agency and he's saying the same thing Jansen said pay me like you paid all those free agents who have come and gone. Coles got 13 mil and you guys dont believe Champ is worth 15 or 16 mil up front not tiered down? Our owner loves making splashes and Champ will be another spash but he aint going no where so please stop thinking he is. CB is the hardest position to play and what are you guys going to say when Smoot whats to get paid next year because he slipped down in the draft? Champ is the best he plays hurt and he was going to the Pro Bowl when Deion came in and got 10 mil for doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Champ is the best and once we get some pressure on the QB from the defensive line. I'm still trying to understand what has Champ done to make so many fans dislike him? He has to play for the same salary and watch countless free agents get tons of money from our owner. Deion got so much it wasn't funny and I know i didn't like seeing him in our colors. Champ goes to the Pro Bowl every year so somebody thinks he's one of the best. His time come up for free agency and he's saying the same thing Jansen said pay me like you paid all those free agents who have come and gone. Coles got 13 mil and you guys dont believe Champ is worth 15 or 16 mil up front not tiered down? Our owner loves making splashes and Champ will be another spash but he aint going no where so please stop thinking he is. CB is the hardest position to play and what are you guys going to say when Smoot whats to get paid next year because he slipped down in the draft? Champ is the best he plays hurt and he was going to the Pro Bowl when Deion came in and got 10 mil for doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 The fans who are down on Champ are the same ones who were down on Stephen Davis the year before. After being the consumate Redskin, not to mention a top player, Davis became publicly frustrated with his role on the team and the losing atmosphere that was emerging with the Skins. Some fans were put off by his remarks, saying he wasn't a "good Redskin" anymore, and good riddence. I see the same situation with Champ. Anyone who watched him play in college and really knew what they were watching during his tenure, so far, with the Redskins, would know that he is a super-competitive player who wants to win. He's been a good soldier, but even the best can get frustrated with losing. The Skins made him an unacceptable offer for a player many consider the best at his position. It wasn't the amount of money, it was the structure. While most players, who have also been among the best at their positions, have recently been receiving most or all of their bonus money up front, the Skins offered their bonus money to Champ in 3 or more installments. The ball is back in the Redskins court. If they really want Champ back, they need to make a new offer. I think Gibbs will want Champ back, and I think Champ will want to play for Gibbs. Good cover corners are crucial for Williams style of defense. He'll be back, he'll get a ton of money, and he'll be back in the Pro Bowl. And I doubt you'll see him ever dog it again like he did late this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 The fans who are down on Champ are the same ones who were down on Stephen Davis the year before. After being the consumate Redskin, not to mention a top player, Davis became publicly frustrated with his role on the team and the losing atmosphere that was emerging with the Skins. Some fans were put off by his remarks, saying he wasn't a "good Redskin" anymore, and good riddence. I see the same situation with Champ. Anyone who watched him play in college and really knew what they were watching during his tenure, so far, with the Redskins, would know that he is a super-competitive player who wants to win. He's been a good soldier, but even the best can get frustrated with losing. The Skins made him an unacceptable offer for a player many consider the best at his position. It wasn't the amount of money, it was the structure. While most players, who have also been among the best at their positions, have recently been receiving most or all of their bonus money up front, the Skins offered their bonus money to Champ in 3 or more installments. The ball is back in the Redskins court. If they really want Champ back, they need to make a new offer. I think Gibbs will want Champ back, and I think Champ will want to play for Gibbs. Good cover corners are crucial for Williams style of defense. He'll be back, he'll get a ton of money, and he'll be back in the Pro Bowl. And I doubt you'll see him ever dog it again like he did late this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Guys, I don't think this is an issue of whether Champ is a good corner or not. He is. But he wants to be paid like THE BEST, and I think his recent play has shown that he does not perform like the best. This is the way people need to think about it. Champ, if franchised, could garner a first round pick compensation, or perhaps even more. While his replacement would not be as skilled (unless it's McAllister), we would in essence be getting our cake, and eating it too. What would you rather have? A) Champ with a 7 year, $70 million contract 1st round pick and Antoine Winfield (or Ahmed Plummer/Troy Vincent) with a contract in the 5 year, $30 million range? Certainly, it would be a downgrade. But IF we would get a 1st round pick for Champ, a player who by all accounts doesn't even want to be here, AND replace him with a good fill-in for about 60% of the price.... we'd be fools not to. I think Cskin really hit it on the money. Let's hope our front office thinks so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Guys, I don't think this is an issue of whether Champ is a good corner or not. He is. But he wants to be paid like THE BEST, and I think his recent play has shown that he does not perform like the best. This is the way people need to think about it. Champ, if franchised, could garner a first round pick compensation, or perhaps even more. While his replacement would not be as skilled (unless it's McAllister), we would in essence be getting our cake, and eating it too. What would you rather have? A) Champ with a 7 year, $70 million contract 1st round pick and Antoine Winfield (or Ahmed Plummer/Troy Vincent) with a contract in the 5 year, $30 million range? Certainly, it would be a downgrade. But IF we would get a 1st round pick for Champ, a player who by all accounts doesn't even want to be here, AND replace him with a good fill-in for about 60% of the price.... we'd be fools not to. I think Cskin really hit it on the money. Let's hope our front office thinks so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by frankbones You're right. Champ never gets burnt and will be tons cheaper than Winfield. Champ never gets burnt? :laugh: I guess my eyes were failing when I saw Marty Booker of the Bears get behind Champ for a 60 yard TD that ultimately was the difference in us losing that game. :doh: But I would take Winfield if we could get him. Cskin's post above makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by frankbones You're right. Champ never gets burnt and will be tons cheaper than Winfield. Champ never gets burnt? :laugh: I guess my eyes were failing when I saw Marty Booker of the Bears get behind Champ for a 60 yard TD that ultimately was the difference in us losing that game. :doh: But I would take Winfield if we could get him. Cskin's post above makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Myideal situation would be to franchise Champ and trade him. Champ is probably the best corner in the league, but hasn't played like it. Seems to me he should have blown up this last year, knowing he was in a contract year. Then, with that extra 1st rounder, we could pick Gamble or D Hall. Both of these guys are good punt returners and very nice CBs. We need a good punt returner. And that extra 3rd or 4th from Champ can be used to recoup our trade for Morton and draft a decent TE, S or DT. (I think that's about all we'll get extra for Champ, since the market is booming with above average CBs this year.) As a wrapup, here's my plan. Franchise Bailey and trade him for 1st and 4th. Use our #5 to get a RB or DE. Use our second 1st rounder to get a replacement CB who can return punts. Second round is Lavalais from LSU. Use the 3rd or 4th from the Champ trade to get another DT or S or TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Myideal situation would be to franchise Champ and trade him. Champ is probably the best corner in the league, but hasn't played like it. Seems to me he should have blown up this last year, knowing he was in a contract year. Then, with that extra 1st rounder, we could pick Gamble or D Hall. Both of these guys are good punt returners and very nice CBs. We need a good punt returner. And that extra 3rd or 4th from Champ can be used to recoup our trade for Morton and draft a decent TE, S or DT. (I think that's about all we'll get extra for Champ, since the market is booming with above average CBs this year.) As a wrapup, here's my plan. Franchise Bailey and trade him for 1st and 4th. Use our #5 to get a RB or DE. Use our second 1st rounder to get a replacement CB who can return punts. Second round is Lavalais from LSU. Use the 3rd or 4th from the Champ trade to get another DT or S or TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Bizkiteer Brilliant idea!!!! Winfield is a top CB that is not commanding to be paid as the #1 at his position. I love Champ, but not if it comes w/ the price tag of him being the highest paid CB in the game. EvilMonkey for GM! Well, I do what I can. My 4 additions this offseason would be 1. Winfield 2. Trade a 2nd or 3rd to Denver for Mike Anderson 3. Robaire Smith 4. Grant Wistrom These are the kind of hard working, talented team players that this franchise needs right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Bizkiteer Brilliant idea!!!! Winfield is a top CB that is not commanding to be paid as the #1 at his position. I love Champ, but not if it comes w/ the price tag of him being the highest paid CB in the game. EvilMonkey for GM! Well, I do what I can. My 4 additions this offseason would be 1. Winfield 2. Trade a 2nd or 3rd to Denver for Mike Anderson 3. Robaire Smith 4. Grant Wistrom These are the kind of hard working, talented team players that this franchise needs right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbones Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum Champ never gets burnt? :laugh: I guess my eyes were failing when I saw Marty Booker of the Bears get behind Champ for a 60 yard TD that ultimately was the difference in us losing that game. :doh: But I would take Winfield if we could get him. Cskin's post above makes a lot of sense. = sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbones Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum Champ never gets burnt? :laugh: I guess my eyes were failing when I saw Marty Booker of the Bears get behind Champ for a 60 yard TD that ultimately was the difference in us losing that game. :doh: But I would take Winfield if we could get him. Cskin's post above makes a lot of sense. = sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I saw every game last year and a lot of our players didn't play up to protential. When a player is up for a new contract in the NFL he has to get it all in a signing bonus why is this so hard? How would other players on our team look at management if they dont pay Champ? He's one of our leaders and has been on the team the longest now. Did Gibbs not say it's time to become a team? Let's keep our team together and stop the dump stuff. Champ and Lavar will lead our defense and every DB gets beat. He's seen at least 5 FA come in and get paid and not one of them has made the Pro Bowl. This year will finally got a few FA that actually produce a good season for us and they all came from the Jets. We haven't been doing to well in signing FA so why take a chance on anotherFA DB that may be a failure ie Deion, George, Stubblefield or Big Daddy? It's not good business and it will take away from the good feeling we all have since we have our coach back. We need to become a family again and keep the family together. Champ is a Skin and should remain one for his entire career just like Lavar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I saw every game last year and a lot of our players didn't play up to protential. When a player is up for a new contract in the NFL he has to get it all in a signing bonus why is this so hard? How would other players on our team look at management if they dont pay Champ? He's one of our leaders and has been on the team the longest now. Did Gibbs not say it's time to become a team? Let's keep our team together and stop the dump stuff. Champ and Lavar will lead our defense and every DB gets beat. He's seen at least 5 FA come in and get paid and not one of them has made the Pro Bowl. This year will finally got a few FA that actually produce a good season for us and they all came from the Jets. We haven't been doing to well in signing FA so why take a chance on anotherFA DB that may be a failure ie Deion, George, Stubblefield or Big Daddy? It's not good business and it will take away from the good feeling we all have since we have our coach back. We need to become a family again and keep the family together. Champ is a Skin and should remain one for his entire career just like Lavar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaping lizzy Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 By next October I hope to be reading many threads titled I'm so glad we kept Champ!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaping lizzy Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 By next October I hope to be reading many threads titled I'm so glad we kept Champ!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 So will I and we will owe him an apology just like we had to bow down to our owner. Who got it right and gave us what we wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 So will I and we will owe him an apology just like we had to bow down to our owner. Who got it right and gave us what we wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Jay Master Jay Did Gibbs not say it's time to become a team? To become a team... you have have players that WANT to be here, and have a team attitude. You honestly think at this point Champ is either of those kinds of players? He wants the green, thats all. I want players who want to be here, not players who want to see how deep into our generous owner's pockets they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Jay Master Jay Did Gibbs not say it's time to become a team? To become a team... you have have players that WANT to be here, and have a team attitude. You honestly think at this point Champ is either of those kinds of players? He wants the green, thats all. I want players who want to be here, not players who want to see how deep into our generous owner's pockets they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPare Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I ultimately think that the best thing to do with Champ is to franchise him, to get him off the market, and then when he signs the long term deal, make it heavily incentive laden. Make a bunch of the incentives easy to hit, with additional stretch goals that would see him make an obscene amount. That way he and the agent get to announce an ungodly sum for the contract, but he doesn't break the bank and is kept accountable for his performance. Oh, and if he doesn't like it, then you try to trade him in the next year. Personally, I think more of these guys should be on heavy incentive plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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