KirkNC Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 The real issue should be: What is LaVar's 'true' value to the Skins? What do you factor in to create the formula that factors LaVar's 'true value'? - Performance on the field to date - Potential still untapped - Relative risk of the player over the period signed. - Continuity - Leadership - Creating the excitment- (Fan interest - does he sell seats and merchandise) Thats my list. Remember that a team consist's of 53 players and there is a CAP. That mean's LaVar's overall 'true worth' must fit withing that CAP and allow me to accomplish my goal of winning as many football games as possible. Performance: LaVar makes spectacular plays. LaVar is one of the special players that can change a game with a play he makes. LaVar blows assignments far too frequently and his fundamental wrapping technique to ensure the tackle is seriously lacking. He seems to have average to slightly below average football IQ. Potential: LaVar is finishing his 4th year in the NFL and yet there is still more talk about his potential than his actual performance to date. The circumstances have been less than ideal with a suspect surrounding cast and the coaching merry-go-round. Great players however bring the level of play around them to a higher level. Great players arrise to the challenges before them. After 4 years; the potential well is pretty tapped, performance gets weighed at a two to one clip over potential after 4 years. Relative Risk: LaVar is a warrior. LaVar plays hurt. LaVar plays with abandon yet often leads with his head increasing his risk to get hurt. LaVar has had several concussions, When concussions mount players leave the game. Overall I would say his risk factor is average. Continuity: A deal that would keep LaVar (most likely the most recognized Redskin) a Redskin for life would be huge to this organization. Leadership: LaVar cares and speaks his mind. Far too few players really care the way LaVar does. LaVar actually knows the history of the Skins and cares about the legacy of the team. LaVar is immature still and at times provides more lipservice than through leadership by example. People choose to follow great leaders, Lavar wishes to be that leader but has not fugures out how as of yet. He may in time, and this team needs a champion desperately. Creating excitement: Best the Skins have and was one of the top 15 or so marquee players in the league last couple of years. That is disapating quickly however because LaVar has yet to earn it on the field. Still in the top 50 though and could rise or fall depending on his play. So what is LaVar's 'true value' ? You tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Madder Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 It's a tough one. You have to weigh his "true value" against what you might receive in return. Let me give you a scenario where I'd be thrilled to see Lavar leave: IRVING - The Minnesota Vikings got Herschel Walker. The Dallas Cowboys got five players, a No. 1 draft pick in 1992 and six other conditional draft picks tied to the former Viking players. And Mr. Walker flew to Minnesota, soon to be perhaps as much as $1.5 million richer. In one of the biggest and strangest trades in NFL history, Mr. Walker became an ex-Cowboy on Thursday morning. In a little more than three seasons with the club, he established himself as one of the league's premier running backs, which is precisely why the struggling Cowboys were able to trade him for so many players and picks. In exchange for their only Pro Bowl player the last two seasons, the Cowboys got five Vikings - linebackers Jesse Solomon and David Howard, running back Darrin Nelson, cornerback Issiac Holt and rookie defensive end Alex Stewart. They also got Minnesota's No. 1 pick in 1992. Of the six conditional picks, two are No. 1 choices, three are No. 2s and one is a No. 3. Although Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and coach Jimmy Johnson refused to discuss the nature of those conditions in an afternoon news conference, several NFL sources told The News that five of the conditional picks are tied to the five players. For each of the five players that the Cowboys release by Feb. 1, 1990, when rosters must be reduced to 37 protected players, the Cowboys will get one pick. Each player is tied to a specific pick, the sources said, but there was no indication which players were tied to which picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orlskinsfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 there will never be another trade like that one....minnesota got taken to the woodshed on that trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SkinsHokie Fan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 But there was. Casserly took Ditka to the woodshed in 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Our Ricky Williams trade wasn't nearly what that trade was... We got their entire draft (which even if it was full was 7 picks...1 thru 7) and the Cowboys got several 1s and 2s....BEFORE the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Madder Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 We got two first round picks for Sean Gilbert (by the way, those picks turned out to be Ricky Williams and Sean Ellis). Speaking of Ricky Williams, we got Ditka to give us Lavar Arrington and Chris Samuels for the #5 pick that he used on Williams. Stranger things have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Fever Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Ok, I’ll give this a shot. Please forgive the frequent comparisons with Ray Lewis. He is the best in football and should be the benchmark IMO. -Performance on the field to date o This has been a mixed bag. He makes a lot of big hits and he is so fast that he can run down plays from the opposite side of the field. He simply has a lot of natural talent. However, he misses more assignments than he should and in going for the big hit fails to wrap up many times. Discipline is something that every good LB has and at this point it seems to be Lavar’s big weakness. It’s something that opposing offenses are starting to exploit. Still, there are some things that he can do that you can’t teach. -Potential still untapped o If he became a more disciplined player he could make the step to the elite level that Lewis has now. He has many of the same tools but seems to lack some of the focus at times. He can certainly get better if he gets a coach that can notice these deficiencies in his play and help him correct them. -Relative risk of the player over the period signed. o His relative risk (if I understand the question right) is low. He has played hurt, carries himself well as a professional and is a good community guy. -Continuity o It may not hurt this team as much as some folks fear if Lavar were to go away. I’d like to see him stay but keeping a single player is not nearly as important as keeping the coaches or front office folks (Skins not included in this example) in most cases. Most of the players we could get to fill his spot would be a step down from the raw talent standpoint but it might not impact the overall defensive performance. We still wouldn’t have any pass rush. -Leadership o Lavar has embraced the role as a leader on the team. Leaders need discipline to be taken seriously though. See above…. -Creating the excitement- (Fan interest - does he sell seats and merchandise) o Fans love the big hit and Lavar has been able to deliver that. It’s a lot of the subtle things that go un-noticed. Most fans don’t care about that as long as he knocks someone into next week. I love that too. We still can’t buy his jerseys. So I would argue that we don’t make nearly as much as we could. He does put people in the stands and the uproar that letting him leave would cause would be something to see. In the end it’s as clear as mud. I’m undecided. I’d like for him to stay a Skin but I’d like to see some change in his game as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 He's no LT and he's no Ray Lewis. With a bit more time maybe he can come close. The Lewis comparisons are also somewhat unfair because Ray is a ILB/MLB. That gives him opportunities to make more plays, plus he is the captain. In control of audibles, coverage shifts and blitz calls-to an extent I would assume. So Ray makes a sh*tload more tackles/stats. Lavar needs to be put in different positions so he can constantly make plays. Lavar is a fan favorite, but so was Dexter for a while. Look what happened to him. Lavar definitley has himself together and is a straight-shooter, but fan favorites have bbe few and far between. If you caount them up, the list is fairly short. Thiesmann, Riggo, Dexter, Monk,Brown, Taylor, Jurgenson and Huff. I'm sure many of you would argue with me about those on that list, but ask any rich old lady from Chevy Chase and she'll recognize the names I mentioned. Not guys like Doug Williams, timmy Smith, Clint Didier, Mark Rypien, Fred Stokes, Tim Johnson, Brad Edwards, Ricky Sanders, Gary Clark etc.... My point is, the value of "blue collar" palyers far exceeds that of the "fan favorite." Or Superstar. Lavar has quite a rep for being a beast in college and gets more respect in this league for having knocked out several QB's.... I love Lavar and want him here. He says over and over he wants to stay a Redskin, but I would hate to have his overall salary jeopardize our chances of having more of a "blue collar" feel to this team. Anywho, we may have on or two of these types of players on the team right now, but the overall feel of the team is not as such. The Pat's come to mind when I think of these types of teams. Here's to re-signing Lavar and Champ at reasonable salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orlskinsfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 hard to compare ray lewis to lavar for the simple reason he has a defensive line that can acutally play football infront of him....leaves him open to make a whole lot of plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Well I'll say this about LaVar Arrington. We can lose with him, then we can definitely lose WITHOUT him. Great talent, and I still think most of it is untapped. But he has got to be smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 i agree he has to play smarter and teams won't alow anyone to dominate like LT did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 W/O commenting on his technique, I've always thought that, when healthy, one of the great things about Lavar is that when he gets his hands on a ballcarrier, they generally go down. But, he makes a lot of mental mistakes. For all of his "leadership", he makes far too many mental errors to be effective as a leader. Classic do as I say, not as I do. The defensive instability has not helped. But, Ray Lewis hasn't missed a beat when switching DCs and switching schemes. Great players play great. I would hope the team would keep Lavar around, but, like Champ, it's all a matter of how reasonable he's willing to be. Like Skeletor said, you can lose w/o him, too. There are no sacred cows on a defense that has struggled so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by SonnyJ W/O commenting on his technique, I've always thought that, when healthy, one of the great things about Lavar is that when he gets his hands on a ballcarrier, they generally go down. But, he makes a lot of mental mistakes. For all of his "leadership", he makes far too many mental errors to be effective as a leader. Classic do as I say, not as I do. The defensive instability has not helped. But, Ray Lewis hasn't missed a beat when switching DCs and switching schemes. Great players play great. I would hope the team would keep Lavar around, but, like Champ, it's all a matter of how reasonable he's willing to be. Like Skeletor said, you can lose w/o him, too. There are no sacred cows on a defense that has struggled so. And, if I missed it in this thread I apologize... I think Lavar's dislike of what Marvin Lewis was doing last season works against him in my eyes. If he doesn't listen to his coaches (especially one who had a SB ring as a DC with the Ravens), how will he get better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 So what % percent% of the CAP do people think LaVar is worth to keep on this team? I would think LaVar is worth between 5 and 6 % of the total CAP over the life of the contract. I also hate the heavily backloaded deals. Beyond that is he really worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 But there was. Casserly took Ditka to the woodshed in 1999 I guess Casserly got taking to the woodshed enough times in his career, that he finally learned something. Casserly = one of the most overrated people in our organizational history and a HUGE reason we are stuck in this current mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.