Art Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I'm scared to death some of you are actually forgetting how good Ramsey is. He's been very bad too, and Hasselbeck has yet to be very bad, so perhaps that's clouding your judgement. But Ramsey can do things in the pocket that is only a dream for Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck came into the game with a 61 QB rating. Yesterday it's hardly like he played that well. He seemed to have to wind up to get ANYTHING on his throws in that wind. He was wildly off the mark on many passes that just should be completed. He got the benefit of playing young corners and our receivers made some nice adjustments to bail him out. He's a lovely find for us as a backup. But this guy has done NOTHING that would lead us to believe he can start in this league. NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Tim could be 3-0 right now with a little D. think what our record would be if Patrick had a little better blocking earlier in the season, and had a better D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by bubba9497 think what our record would be if Patrick had a little better blocking earlier in the season, and had a better D? blocking or holding the ball to darn long i'd say the 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Ramsey with a better scripted game would ve won more imagine him in a game with a balance run pass ratio or heavy run game. fewer hits and fewer blitzes. I do hate that empty backfield stuff unless it occurs by moving the RBs into the slot then calling the play before the defense can adjust. One of my peeves when ramsey was in was that we seemed to give defenses time to adjust to our offensive set instead of catching them out of position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by bubba9497 think what our record would be if Patrick had a little better blocking earlier in the season, and had a better D? Sorry, Bubba, but, Ramsey was the primary cause of what appeared to be poor blocking. He was taking unnecessary sacks and hits because he refused to get the ball out of there on time. You're not really seeing a huge difference now. Hasselbeck just doesn't make EVERY bad block turn into a massive blow right now. So we feel better, but, if Ramsey returns and plays the same way, with the same indecision, we're going to see a ton more hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Ramsey is a smart kid and I'm sure he will get the feedback about working on quicker decision making and it will only make the team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Art I just watched the Cowboys game again last night and Ramsey played HORRIBLY. He was confused and slow to deliver the ball. But, even IN that, he made a half dozen throws that Hasselbeck is incapable of making. That is the advantage of Ramsey right now. Art, every word you write here is true. Ramsey can make throws that very few QBs in the NFL can make -- and by that yardstick, Hasselbeck isn't half the QB that Ramsey is. But as you know, being able to make the throws isn't the sum measure or even the primary measure of great QBs. If it were, we'd be talking about how many NFL MVP awards and Super Bowl titles Jeff George holds. Ramsey has thrilling physical talent, great courage and great character. I've been rooting for him since he took over the starting job. But just because he has the *potential* to be a dominant, NFL MVP-type player doesn't mean he'll ever be more effective as a starting QB than Hasselbeck. What seems so easy for us to say -- that he just needs to throw the ball quicker, identify the open receiver better, read the rush better, and avoid pressure by shifting in the pocket -- may not be so easy for Ramsey to put together. Some posters have reported that Ramsey was a sack machine in high school as well as at Tulane. While he was a prolific passer at Tulane, it was in a shotgun offense which was a chronic loser under Ramsey -- albeit with a weak supporting cast. When a guy keeps getting hit hard as a QB for eight years straight (which is apparently what's happening) and has never been known as a winner in terms of leading his team to winning seasons, maybe that's a pattern that Ramsey can't shake -- because it's a result of the way he plays QB. I've been amazed by the career of Rob Johnson. After becoming known as a sack machine, I figured he'd shake it off and just make a concerted effort to avoid sacks. How hard is that? But in his ninth season, we saw Rob Johnson was still getting sacked three times in his first 10 pass attempts. Obviously Ramsey has more upside than Hasselbeck. For that reason, I'm rooting for Ramsey to figure it all out and become that outstanding, complete QB we want him to be. But if I were a betting man, I'd say that Hasselbeck is more likely to be an effective NFL starting QB. Because he already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 ASF, The point remains that where it is fair to concern yourself over whether Ramsey can avoid the types of weaknesses he's shown that have allowed him to get sacked and HIT a ton this year, one must not only look to his high school years and his college years to figure it out. One must also look to last year. He came in and was hit over and over. Sacked over and over. Then he hit the bench. Then he came back in and was sacked infrequently. Hit infrequently. For three games -- Philly, Houston and Dallas -- against good defenses, Ramsey was on time, limited his shots, and the offense was very effective, if still turnover prone in the Dallas game. I believe Spurrier can get Ramsey over the hump he's in right now. Right now he knows too much and yet too little. He's still not second nature in the offense. He's thinking about everything and that's slowing him down. And in the process he wants to make the big play. He KNOWS beating the blitz with the big play is the only way to stop it so he's compounding the blitz by trying to do too much. It's more mental than physical or impossible right now for Ramsey to improve. Another offseason and a look at tape and a DIRECT comparison to a guy who isn't half as good as he is will help him realize some of his remaining flaws. And, if it doesn't, then we'll need to find another QB at some point. Perhaps even Tim Hasselbeck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I'm scared to death some of you are actually forgetting how good Ramsey is. He's been very bad too, and Hasselbeck has yet to be very bad, so perhaps that's clouding your judgement. But Ramsey can do things in the pocket that is only a dream for Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck came into the game with a 61 QB rating. Yesterday it's hardly like he played that well. He seemed to have to wind up to get ANYTHING on his throws in that wind. He was wildly off the mark on many passes that just should be completed. He got the benefit of playing young corners and our receivers made some nice adjustments to bail him out.He's a lovely find for us as a backup. But this guy has done NOTHING that would lead us to believe he can start in this league. NOTHING. Pretty much the same thing popped into my head when I first started reading this thread. We were extremely lucky to find a guy like Hasselbeck off the street when our F.O. had to cut bait on RJ. He's a competant b/u who can come in and keep the wheels from falling off for a few games. However, I don't think he's ever going to be a really good NFL starter. If he does manage to beat the odds, it'll have to be with a team that runs the WCO...much like us the past few weeks. What's the world coming to when I have to admit that I agree with every word in one of Art's posts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Agreeing with every word in my posts Yusuf is usually a sign of extremely good taste and growing intelligence. Keep it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 ASF, I've also started to wonder about Ramsey's similarity to RJ (regarding holding the ball too long) over the last few games that he started. However, I have confidence that Ramsey is a much smarter guy than RJ and with some good coaching and game planning that covers his weaknessess at this point in his career, he can be a darn good QB. I just hope DC fans have enough patience while he gets through the initial growing pains. If he starts hearing boos from over expectant fans next season it could shake his confidence. I'd hate to see him leave us and blow up with another team. Of course, that's never happened before so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I just hope DC fans have enough patience while he gets through the initial growing pains. If he starts hearing boos from over expectant fans next season it could shake his confidence. I'd hate to see him leave us and blow up with another team. Of course, that's never happened before so.... Well said, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novato Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 They're running different offenses, Tim's running a vanilla WC offense, and Ramsey was running Spurrier's vertical Offense. Tim could be a very good backup for us, but its a little bit early. The Giants suck. Dallas' "D" is a different matter and then Philly's. Hopefully they don't rush Ramsey back in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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