OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum OaktonSkinsFan, That's not a bad plan and we could probably sign Bobby Taylor no problem. Yep. He's going to be a FA and seemingly the Eagles will not re-sign him. Given the number of top CB's going into FA this year, Taylor will be had for less than he might normally get. Someone mentioned Woodson, but he'll probably go for too much - too much for us to pay AND dramatically bolster the DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Woodson is damaged goods because of his foot problems. Steer clear of guys with an injury history. Look at what we have had to deal with by signing Upshaw and Fiore, two guys that missed most of the 2002 season with knee problems. What do they have in 2003? More knee problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by bulldog what's funny is the Redskins supposedly have all these great players from Bailey to Arrington to Samuels, and yet the club can't beat ANYBODY :laugh: is anyone trying to tell me with a straight face that if Bailey left and we signed Chris McAlister and then drafted some defensive linemen for a change in April that this defense would be worse in 2004? come on. this is a 53 man roster. one player unless he is a franchise qb or dominant DL is not going to sink or float your team. Between the extra top picks and what we'd save from letting Champ go, we could add more than one dominant DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum Even though we are entitled to two #1 draft picks for Champ, it aint gonna happen. The best we will be able to do is get a #1 and a #3, which might not be worth it. The Sean Gilbert case of getting two #1's picks from Carolina was a freak aberration for a franchised player. Charley Casserly was more then willing to take a #1 and a #3 for Gilbert, but Carolina didn't want to part with both picks the same year. So the next year both #1 picks kicked in. But it rarely happens that a team will give up two #1 picks for a player, unless he is a franchise QB. Didn't the Bucs give up two #1s for Keyshawn? Didn't the Cowboys give up two #1s for Galloway? It's been known to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 That's where it all starts - OL and DL. The one common denominator between all of Gibbs' teams were outstanding lines. Mark Rypein, who simply wasn't a great QB, looked phenomenal with all of that time to pass. Ramsey *could* look simply unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Henry, You are right, its been known to happen a few times -- like what 3 times. But after giving up two #1's for Gilbert, KeShawn and Galloway, Carolina, Tampa Bay and Dallas realized that they had been taken and none of these guys were worth that much. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 My memory might be failing me but didn't we give up 2 firsts to the Bears for Wilbur Marshall? I thought we did Marshall being one of the first, if not the first, "FA" to leave via free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The Redskins actually gave up picks for free agent John Riggins in 1975 Yep, two #1's for Wilber Marshall, although the Skins were 10-6 in both 1989 and 1990, so their relative value was less than for a club like this one that can't seem to get back to .500 I think the core of this team has shown us the past couple of seasons that we can't win with them as constituted. We may just have to move on and draft other players and let some heralded guys go. The Vikings let Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham and Jeff George go and still ended up with Daunte Culpepper at QB. If we lose Champ and get picks it is not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by bulldog The Redskins actually gave up picks for free agent John Riggins in 1975 Yep, two #1's for Wilber Marshall, although the Skins were 10-6 in both 1989 and 1990, so their relative value was less than for a club like this one that can't seem to get back to .500 I think the core of this team has shown us the past couple of seasons that we can't win with them as constituted. We may just have to move on and draft other players and let some heralded guys go. The Vikings let Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham and Jeff George go and still ended up with Daunte Culpepper at QB. If we lose Champ and get picks it is not the end of the world. End of the world? Are you kidding me? Could very well be the catalyst for good things to happen like creating a dominant DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Bailey sure hasn't endeared himself after telling us he was entitled to the largest bonus in the league :laugh: maybe he should have waited and let his contract season speak for itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I agree bulldog, some of these current players need to go. Winning hasn't taken place with a variety of coaches and styles. Get some draft picks for them while we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 If Champ leaves, the player that I would target would be Buffalo CB Antoine Winfield, IMO, he is a player on the rise. I think the Champ for a 1&3 is the most likely. If its a team like Atlanta those picks could be top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 it is almost impossible for Bailey, Arrington or Samuels to be a true team leader because their performances are uneven and they show too much inconsistency. Arrington would like to be Ray Lewis or Junior Seau for the Skins but he just lacks that kind of discipline and ability to stay focused and play smart. Samuels has had two poor seasons in a row. Last year he had injury problems through the first 6 or 8 games, but this year his collapse has been a mystery. Aikman admitted on Sunday that the Skins just weren't getting much movement out of Dallas up front. Samuels at least didn't have any penalties this time around. Bailey has been up and down. He had a horrible game against the Giants and that was when he was still 100%. Again, who is playing well enough right now to be a leader? John Hall? Randy Thomas? Coles? yeah, we keep going back to the ex-Jets. They seem to be the only players that are keeping themselves on an even keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 This notion that we will just be able to create some dominating DL is funny. It's not gonna happen over one off season when we really need to replace the entire line. Who's know where the picks are that we might get from Champ. It could be a first in the mid 20's. All corners get beat, it happens. Champ is a top flight corner and would be even better with a good solid pass rush. BTW, the Dallas game was the first time I've really seen Smoot make some good tackles. Champ on the other hand is a very solid tackler. The fact is, until we get a pass rush, any corner will get beat in this system. Even one as good as champ. It's not like smoot doesn't get beat every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Originally posted by bulldog Samuels at least didn't have any penalties this time around. Actually, he had 2 false starts and one holding call. Cut him loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbones Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Originally posted by SkinsNorth If Champ leaves, the player that I would target would be Buffalo CB Antoine Winfield, IMO, he is a player on the rise. I think the Champ for a 1&3 is the most likely. If its a team like Atlanta those picks could be top 5. Yes, please get Antoine. The guy is a freaking beast. If we can get him for a bargain because of other top-flight corners being on the market that would be our best move, IMHO. If we could work out a deal early with a team to get a 1st and either a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, I think that too, would be optimal. If we franchise him and no one trades for him or signs him(giving us 2 1st round picks automatically) than we have to give him a 1 year contract and have an unhappy player whose public comments this year have been odd. I think Champ is a top 5 cornerback in this league on par with Vincent, Surtain, Madison, Woodson, Rolle, and others. However, I think the dropoff to the 2nd and 3rd tiers of CB's in the NFL is not that significant. Where would you put Smoot? Winfield? Taylor? Terrence Newman? Will Allen? Ahmed Plummer? Shawn Springs? Dre Bly? Corey Chavous? Ronde Barber? Chris McAllister? Ty Law? and a few others that I'm forgetting. ALl of those players are very solid, but not always spectactular CB's(remind you of someone;)) We have on of those guys and a few will be available. As much as I love Champ, I wouldn't mind going after one of those guys and going to our farm team for Mr. John Abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Could'a, Would'a, Should'a Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 1. Bailey can only cover for so long with no pass rush from the dline or lbs, the guy is the best corner in the league no question, anybody care to name a better 1? 2. ppl here saying he only covers, hes not a play maker, right then tell me the name of this magical corner in the league thats making game changing plays every week, i cant see anybody. err remember Deion was 1 of a kind and has now retired. 3. Bulldog, saying Chris Mccalister could replace Bailey for less money is nothing special, if you franchise & trade champ for a no.1 & no.2, youd have to give those picks to Baltimore anyway because Mccalister was franchised last year & he'll be franchised again this year. 4. Antoine Winfield is a good corner, but lets get this straight the guy is listed at 5-8, man... thats a stretch he looks more like 5-6 at best, the guys helmet looks bigger than he is. 5. Bulldog, comparing Bailey to the woes of Arrington & Samuels is also a stretch, those two have been underperforming since they've been drafted, all Arrington has shown at this point is he can hit hard & run fast, but the guy has no discipline, not staying in his gaps, late hits, overrunning the plays, disappearing at crucial points in the game... 6. The guy is the top corner in the league & deserves to be paid like the best, if Surtain, Rolle & Madison get $15M bonuses then Champ is entitled to at LEAST that amount, if the skins feel they need to use the money elsewhere then thats a different subject. i find it strange an iggles fan is one of the only guys sticking up for him :dj: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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