Ronda Rousey's Strategy to Beat Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[#98QBKiller]

You bring up an interesting poin, minus the gun. I don't believe in bringing a gun to a fist fight. But I've heard long ago that karate/martial arts isn't all that effective in a real fight. I've heard a good wrestler would beat them all.

 

 

Wrestling is also one of the most effective systems in the world for an unarmed, one-on-one scenario. In the last 20 years MMA has shown us what works best in this type of fight scenario. Obviously being well rounded is important but some martial arts/combat sports have translated over better than others. 

 

I'd say (in no particular order) that boxing, kickboxing/Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ, judo, and sambo have shown to be some of the best systems in the world. Although, there have been (and currently are) guys that are successful with Karate/TKD /etc, but they also have to be good at other things. 

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

The consensus in MMA today is that wrestling is the most useful skill to have. The ability to dictate where a fight takes place. Muay Thai kickboxing, wrestling and jiu jitsu are the three most common styles you see in MMA. They dominate, in fact. Every fighter trains all three styles.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWD7Yxpy1OM

[JMS]

No marital art/combat sport/self defense system is designed to handle multiple attackers. Your best bet is a gun or learn to run fast and far.

I don't think a gun is a alternative to being able to defend yourself. If you are carrying a gun and you can't defend yourself, your attacker will probable take your gun from you and shoot you with it. As for fighting multiple attackers, or having the ability to fight multiple attackers I would say the your ability to expediently and directly deal with an individual attacker favors you being able to defend against a group.

Laying on your back and being able to proficiently dispatch an attacker over 30-40 minutes via the Gracie Guard is a ridiculous strategy for self defense. In a real world fight a more expedient, direct and simple strategy of a right cross is far more useful. A direct expedient defense strategy leaves you on your feet to deal with what is coming next, rather than on your back, fully engaged and defenseless for an extended period of time.

In a real world fight I would say that Boxing skills, minus the Marquess of Queensberry rules would be preferable to BJJ. It seems to me BJJ is tedious, boring, and impractical to real world fighting. It is effective only if rules make it so, and even then it's boring to watch. Which is why MMA doesn't allow the Gracie Guard as an offensive tactic. Why the MMA has rounds which will blow up and negate a Gracie Guard's effect. Why the MMA has timed matches also which negate a gaurd's ability to wear down the opponent. MMA has rather moved towards more expedient submission holds which are almost as impractical in a real fight yet are more expedient and therefore tolerable if not outright entertaining in a sporting event.

 

But in an unarmed, one-on-one situation BJJ is one of the most effective systems in the world and this has been proven over and over again.

I don't disagree with that. Narrowly if you can guarantee you are only fighting one person and nobody else will interfere, you have an unlimited amount of time, and no set periods like rounds; such as a BJJ ring or early pre Zuffa UFC... then BJJ fighting skills seem to negate a lot of other advantages. Royce Gracie was 6'1" 175 lbs when he fought in UFC and would defeat guys regularly with 25, 50, or 100 lb weight advantages on him.. good fighters.. It was impressive. Doing it in one nigh.. incredible.

UFC #1..

1. Royce defeated Art Jimmerson who outweighed him by 25 lbs. Submit, 2 minutes..
2. Ken Shamrock, who outweighed him by 40 lbs... Submit, 1 minute...
3. Gerard Gordeau, who outweighed him by 50 lbs... submit 2 minutes.

Same thing in UFC #2 when he defeated four fighters in one night including Patrick Smith 50 lb weight advantage in the finals.

It was impressive.

But then when Royce fought guys like Dan Severn in UFC #4 who outweighed him by 75 lbs and it took him 16 minutes to painstakingly exhaust Severn on his way to the submission win.. It was still impressive as hell, but it was boring.. 10 minutes in a clinch.. B-gesus.

Or UFC #5... when he fought Ken Shamrock.. 36 minute draw.. Holy hell was that boring. Which is why they put in weight limits, gloves, rounds and more rules to favor more mixed approach to martial arts, to keep the the UFC matches from devolving into marathon BJJ's submission fests.

[JMS]

The success they had in gyms against all comers lead them to create the UFC, to test BJJ even more. They laid it all on the line.

UFC fights in the early 1990's were geared to test mano vs mano and determine which fighting styles were superior. There were no rounds, there were no time periods. no weight limits,  and no gloves.  It did seem that BJJ practitioners had an advantage.

UFC went away from that format because it was boring to watch. That's why they came up with the MMA fighting program which negates BJJ prolonged wear the opponent out strategy in favor of mixed disciplines and quicker submission holds.

That's why the Gracies boycotted the UFC in the early 1990's for a while.. because the UFC went to rules which took away their advantages.

It's all about the rules.

[PokerPacker]

I don't think a gun is a alternative to being able to defend yourself. If you are carrying a gun and you can't defend yourself, your attacker will probable take your gun from you and shoot you with it. As for fighting multiple attackers, or having the ability to fight multiple attackers I would say the your ability to expediently and directly deal with an individual attacker favors you being able to defend against a group.

Laying on your back and being able to proficiently dispatch an attacker over 30-40 minutes via the Gracie Guard is a ridiculous strategy for self defense. In a real world fight a more expedient, direct and simple strategy of a right cross is far more useful. A direct expedient defense strategy leaves you on your feet to deal with what is coming next, rather than on your back, fully engaged and defenseless for an extended period of time.

In a real world fight I would say that Boxing skills, minus the Marquess of Queensberry rules would be preferable to BJJ. It seems to me BJJ is tedious, boring, and impractical to real world fighting. It is effective only if rules make it so, and even then it's boring to watch. Which is why MMA doesn't allow the Gracie Guard as an offensive tactic. Why the MMA has rounds which will blow up and negate a Gracie Guard's effect. Why the MMA has timed matches also which negate a gaurd's ability to wear down the opponent. MMA has rather moved towards more expedient submission holds which are almost as impractical in a real fight yet are more expedient and therefore tolerable if not outright entertaining in a sporting event.

I don't disagree with that. Narrowly if you can guarantee you are only fighting one person and nobody else will interfere, you have an unlimited amount of time, and no set periods like rounds; such as a BJJ ring... then BJJ fighting skills seem to negate a lot of other skills.

Yeah, in the real world, you'll likely have to deal with more than a single attacker. Get into a bar-fight or something and your opponent will have friends that will stomp you in if the fight goes to the ground. You want real-world defense, look at something like Krav Maga. It draws heavily from boxing, although the stance is altered to make it easier to defend take-downs. It will teach you escapes from choke-holds, head-locks, bear-hugs, etc.. It incorporates some BJJ with a focus on getting back on your feet if the fight goes to the ground rather than a focus on trying to submit your opponent.

[Forehead]

I don't necessarily agree with everything JMS says, but he's right about boxing and the multiple attackers bit.  Best thing you can do if you have no other recourse is to crack one guy as hard as you can and see if his friend(s) lose their nerve.

 

Anyway, my answers have never been about boxing vs. MMA, as I enjoy both immensely and understand the science and techniques behind them.  My argument has been solely based on the speed, punching power, and strength of Mayweather compared to any of Rousey's opponents, or Rousey herself.  I just can't see her getting the job done.  It's still been a fun discussion though.

[#98QBKiller]

Laying on your back and being able to proficiently dispatch an attacker over 30-40 minutes via the Gracie Guard is a ridiculous strategy for self defense. In a real world fight a more expedient, direct and simple strategy of a right cross is far more useful. A direct expedient defense strategy leaves you on your feet to deal with what is coming next, rather than on your back, fully engaged and defenseless for an extended period of time.

In a real world fight I would say that Boxing skills, minus the Marquess of Queensberry rules would be preferable to BJJ. It seems to me BJJ is tedious, boring, and impractical to real world fighting. It is effective only if rules make it so, and even then it's boring to watch. Which is why MMA doesn't allow the Gracie Guard as an offensive tactic. Why the MMA has rounds which will blow up and negate a Gracie Guard's effect. Why the MMA has timed matches also which negate a gaurd's ability to wear down the opponent. MMA has rather moved towards more expedient submission holds which are almost as impractical in a real fight yet are more expedient and therefore tolerable if not outright entertaining in a sporting event.

 

 

A couple of things need to be pointed out here, I don't think you really understand BJJ.

 

What you're calling the "Gracie Guard" is just referred to as the "guard" in general terms. There are variations of the guard (closed guard, half guard, open guards, etc.) but in general it's just called the guard.

 

Another thing I would point out is that reaching the guard isn't the primary objective of a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, especially in a scenario that involves strikes. 

 

The goal of the BJJ practitioner is to take his opponent down, get him in a dominant position, and finish him from there. The most common dominant positions are mount, back control and side control and if a BJJ practitioner gets an untrained opponent in a dominant position he will finish the fight VERY quickly, even against a much larger and stronger opponent. This was the beauty of BJJ and what the fight world had never seen before UFC 1. This 30-40 minute stuff is what happens against other trained opponents in a competition setting, with no time limits, not in a "real world fight," as you put it. 

 

I would also point out that when someone achieves a dominant position in BJJ that not only are they capable of using chokes and joint locks on their opponent but they're also able to strike their opponent from the dominant position without fear of their opponent striking back. 

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are several martial arts/combat sports that we've learned are very effective over the years, and I included both BJJ and boxing in that list among others, so I don't disagree that boxing is an effective skill to have. But even more effective is to be well-rounded in all phases of hand-to-hand combat which means being prepared in striking, wrestling/standup grappling, and in the ground game. 

 

 

 

 

 

Or UFC #5... when he fought Ken Shamrock.. 36 minute draw.. Holy hell was that boring. Which is why they put in weight limits, gloves, rounds and more rules to favor more mixed approach to martial arts, to keep the the UFC matches from devolving into marathon BJJ's submission fests.

 

No, the UFC actually added weight classes, gloves, rounds, and rules in order to evolve into a regulated sport and to be recognized by athletic commissions. And of course it has payed off immensely as it is one of the fastest-growing sports in the world. 

[Forehead]

 

 

I would also point out that when someone achieves a dominant position in BJJ that not only are they capable of using chokes and joint locks on their opponent but they're also able to strike their opponent from the dominant position without fear of their opponent striking back. 

 

 

For a good example of this, go all the way back to UFC 2 and watch the fight between Jason Delucia and Scott Baker.  Delucia was versed in BJJ (though I don't remember if it was his dominant discipline) and got Baker in an extremely compromising position where he could have punched him at will, forcing Baker to tap out.  The fight is only 6-7 minutes long if you can keep your attention span going.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

For a good example of this, go all the way back to UFC 2 and watch the fight between Jason Delucia and Scott Baker. Delucia was versed in BJJ (though I don't remember if it was his dominant discipline) and got Baker in an extremely compromising position where he could have punched him at will, forcing Baker to tap out. The fight is only 6-7 minutes long if you can keep your attention span going.

That's a ridiculously obscure example. Jason Delucia is the guy in the yellow trunks in the second-to-last video I posted. He was a striker claiming to be undefeated, going up against Royce in the gym. Royce made him say mercy to punches. They rematched at UFC 2, as Delucia had legit skills, and as you point out, learned a jiu jitsu crash course after Royce owned him the first time. At UFC 2, Royce still armbarred him, easily.

Hey 99, did you know Delucia is the white guy in Pancrase that Bas KOd with a liver shot?

[JMS]

No, the UFC actually added weight classes, gloves, rounds, and rules in order to evolve into a regulated sport and to be recognized by athletic commissions. And of course it has payed off immensely as it is one of the fastest-growing sports in the world.

UFC put in reforms like time limits after the UFC #4 (1995) debacle. When thePay per view audience missed the outcome of the fight(Gracie vs Severn) because it went over the PPV time slot. Another "reform" made at this time was to interfere with the Gracie Guard's submission strategy... mandating that after a take down if no submission were achieved after a few minutes the fight would be continued again from the standing position which the Gracies felt favored their opposition. When this second rule resulted in Royce almost getting knocked out ( blow to the head which almost swelled his eye closed by the end of the match ). These reforms coupled with Royces failure to submit Shamrock after a futile 36 debacle of a fight. Royces first meeting with Shamrock in UFC#1 2 years earlier resulted in a submission in less than 1 minute. Royce blamed the new rules for allowing opponents to better compete with him after UFC #4. So Royce Grace left the UFC. Royce Gracie Winner of UFC 1,2,4,and co champion of 5 didn't fight again in the UFC until UFC#60 - 10 years(2006)..

The UFC didn't get recognized by various state athletic sanctioning commissions until the Zuffa era of the early 2000s six or seven years after the Gracie's left the UFC. When various casino interests purchased the UFC rights with the express purpose of getting it sanctioned and promoting the fights.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

It's not the Gracie Guard, like he said. Wow. It's called the the guard. Once everyone realized BJJ worked, they incorporated it in to their games. You're denying a fact that is proven each and every card in MMA history. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is extremely effective. People are so good at it now, worlds better than your boy Royce. People slap on submissions fast as lightning. They don't need 36 minutes, they need 36 milliseconds.

Rules were put in place because McCain lead the charge against "human ****fighting". Not because of one boring match. There are boring matches in every sport. MMA was outlawed, dying, and according to you, saved because of Royce/Shamrock II. Good luck with that stance.

[JMS]

It's not the Gracie Guard, like he said. Wow. It's called the the guard.

It is the Gracie Guard, It was invented by Carlos Gracie. Traditional jiu-jitsu didn't allow the use of that type of a ground game or a guard because it ended when one opponent was pinned. Going to your back in traditional jiu-jitsu would have resulted in your immediate loss...

Anyway you call it a guard, I'm old school; I call it what it is.. The Gracie Guard. an innovation introduced by BJJ or the Gracie family of BJJ.

 

Once everyone realized BJJ worked, they incorporated it in to their games.

No, that's exactly what didn't happen. UFC changed the rules and negated the effectiveness of BJJ. Which is why the Gracies left the UFC for a decade.

 

You're denying a fact that is proven each and every card in MMA history.

No.. MMA stands for Mixed Martial Arts and deliberately makes people develop multiple disciplines to compete with the new rules, new gear, new time limits, and new rounds over what used a UFC match.

 

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is extremely effective. People are so good at it now, worlds better than your boy Royce. People slap on submissions fast as lightning. They don't need 36 minutes, they need 36 milliseconds.

"My Boy"? Whatever.. 36 minutes under the new rules which negate his skills and favor MMA's mixed approach; deemed more watchable by UFC.

 

Rules were put in place because McCain lead the charge against "human ****fighting". Not because of one boring match. There are boring matches in every sport. MMA was outlawed, dying, and according to you, saved because of Royce/Shamrock II. Good luck with that stance.

I guess you know you are loosing a discussion when you invent arguments and put them into the other person's mouth. I never said anything about Royce/Shamrock II saving anything. Rules were put in place by the Zuffa group in the 2002-3 timeframe to get sanctioning bodies to recognize UFC and MMA.. yes. But rules were also put in place after the Gracie vs Severn debacle, and before the Gracie vs Shamrock debacle to make the sport more watchable.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Do we call it the Ruth Homerun or the Jim Brown Touchdown? You sound like an idiot.

You are learning on the fly, aren't listening to hardcore fans, and whipping up conclusions. What a croc of ****.

[JMS]

Do we call it the Ruth Homerun or the Jim Brown Touchdown? You sound like an idiot.

Ruth didn't invent the homerun.

Jim Brown didn't invent the touchdown?

Carlos Gracie invented and promoted his form of Brazilian JJ and the guard was a major part of his innovation.

 

You are learning on the fly, aren't listening to hardcore fans, and whipping up conclusions. What a croc of ****.

Actually I'm recalling history. I watched the first UFC fights on PPV and I remember the controversy when Royce Gracie, the UFC's biggest star left and why. Because I'm not only crotchety... I'm old too.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Ruth didn't invent the homerun.

Jim Brown didn't invent the touchdown?

Carlos Gracie invented and promoted his form of Brazilian JJ and the guard was a major part of his innovation.

You're missing the point. You don't go naming techniques in every sport by its inventor/innovator. Nobody calls it the Gracie Guard, not even the Gracies. Do we call it the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense every time we mention it? No, it's the West Coast Offense

Actually I'm recalling history. I watched the first UFC fights on PPV and I remember the controversy when Royce Gracie, the UFC's biggest star left and why. Because I'm not only crotchety... I'm old too.

Time limits were introduced AT UFC 5. Royce vs. Shamrock 2 HAD a time limit. Time limits weren't introduced because of that fight. Royce and the family were already upset at the new time limits before that match took place. The flux of rules changes later on were due to the brutality of particular techniques. Most of which are on the ground.

Let me be clear about something. Royce Gracie has been discussed ad nauseum. He is not even close to the most skilled ground fighter we've seen. Even in prime form, he'd get mangled by guys in his same weight class these days. In fact, when he came out of retirement to fight for the welterweight belt, Matt Hughes dominated him, on the ground.

Yes, Matt was a great wrestler, a super strong athlete, but in the end, he finished Royce with jiu jitsu. Then he finished George St. Pierre with jiu jitsu. Then George came back later on and beat Matt with jiu jitsu. Then BJ Penn beat Matt with jiu jitsu, and the beat goes on.

Royce was doomed if he stayed in the UFC fighting at an open weight. I think he knew that. He skidattled at the right time. Jiu jitsu stayed, though.

[#98QBKiller]

Hey 99, did you know Delucia is the white guy in Pancrase that Bas KOd with a liver shot?

 

Haha just looked that up

 

UFC put in reforms like time limits after the UFC #4 (1995) debacle. When thePay per view audience missed the outcome of the fight(Gracie vs Severn) because it went over the PPV time slot. Another "reform" made at this time was to interfere with the Gracie Guard's submission strategy... mandating that after a take down if no submission were achieved after a few minutes the fight would be continued again from the standing position which the Gracies felt favored their opposition. 

 

 

It's already been said but there is really no such thing as the "Gracie Guard," and it was most certainly political pressure that added rules to the UFC. The business wouldn't have been allowed to continue and wouldn't have been such a financial success had it not evolved into a sport. 

[JMS]

You're missing the point. You don't go naming techniques in every sport by its inventor/innovator. Nobody calls it the Gracie Guard, not even the Gracies. Do we call it the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense every time we mention it? No, it's the West Coast Offense

You're missing the point, I didn't coin the name. Get over it.

 

Time limits were introduced AT UFC 5. Royce vs. Shamrock 2 HAD a time limit. Time limits weren't introduced because of that fight.

I don't know what your point his. I said time limits were introduced after UFC4... because the PPV audience missed the end of the premier fight Royce Gracie vs Dan Severn when the fight ran long. 5 is after 4... Royce ended up submitting him but the PPV audience missed the finish.. and yes time limits were introduced because of that fight and other changes to the fight rules too... Like moving the fighters back to their feet if the ground game got too slow.

It was a big deal... a bunch of the PPV audience wanted their money back because they missed the finish of the top fight.

The stated purpose of these rules changes at the time was to speed up the fight and improve the watch of the event.

[JMS]

it was most certainly political pressure that added rules to the UFC (IN 1995). The business wouldn't have been allowed to continue and wouldn't have been such a financial success ( starting in 2003 when Zuffa group purchased the UFC for 2 million dollars) had it not evolved into a sport.

The UFC rules changes in 1995 Time limits, blowing up the ground game, which the Gracie's found so objectionable had nothing to do with the UFC getting sanctioned. The UFC remained unsanctioned until after the Zuffa Group and Dana White took over in the early 1990's

The rule changes in 1995 had everything to do with trying to make the events more watchable, more exciting. Faster... introduce more action.

[JMS]

Royce was doomed if he stayed in the UFC fighting at an open weight. I think he knew that. He skidattled at the right time. Jiu jitsu stayed, though.

Royce won UFC 1, 2, 4, and tied in the finals of UFC 5. In UFC #3 he won both his fights, but was banged up and couldn't continue into the finals. He was a 175 lb guy who regularly defeated guys 25, 50, 100 lbs bigger than him. Something nobody in the UFC today is asked to do. He was the UFC's biggest star when he left. He left UFC when they started to change the rules specifically to negate his technique.

He didn't skidattle from the competition. He went to Japan and fought there.

When he returned to the UFC in 2006-7 after 11 years overseas he was 41 years old.

You want to argue the UFC is better now. I'm not arguing that. It's different now, that can't be argued. The rules have changed significantly and the techniques and skills have adopted to the rules.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Royce had 5 fights in 5 years in Japan. 4 against grapplers his size with no power, and one against a 600 lb man who could barely move. It's not even in the same realm as what he was going through in the UFC. Those fights in Japan had shorter time limits than 30 minutes, aside from the Saku fight.

Ken Shamrock started learning BJJ right after what happened to him at UFC 1. He was more aware of Royce's game the second time around, he just kneeled there all fight long and played it safe as all heck. Wrestlers emphasizing good takedown defense and huge striking power like Tank and Don Frye were just about to hit the scene. Royce had an amazing run, but I think he got out of there at the right time.

So they went over the PPV time slot at UFC 4, but realize that Gracie/Severn only lasted 15 minutes before Royce subbed him. A 15 minute fight is to blame for them installing a 30 minute time limit? The event ran too long, not the

fight itself. So please, keep going on about how the "Gracie Guard" is blown up and negated when you install a 30 minute time limit.

Royce didn't need that much time to triangle Severn from the guard, or reverse Shamrock from that position. He didn't need 45 minutes to land the armbar on Kimo from the guard. He armbarred Keith Hackney from the guard 5 minutes in to the fight.

The greatest fighter of all time, Fedor Emelianenko, had his legendary streak broken by a triangle/armbar from the guard 1 minute in to a fight. Anthony Pettis just won the lightweight championship with a first round armbar from the guard. There are literally hundreds of other examples. These guys aren't wishing they could stall for 40 minutes. They see a mistake and instinctually take advantage of it in a split second.

[Forehead]

That's a ridiculously obscure example. Jason Delucia is the guy in the yellow trunks in the second-to-last video I posted.

 

I'm assuming this was meant as a compliment?   That one has always stuck with me, the way he hit that (what was it, a bodylock of some sort?) and wound up on top of Baker, had Baker's arms pinned, and his head exposed and basically told him "tap out or I'm going to punch your face in."  When Baker didn't tap, he punched him in the skull twice and Baker saw the light.  It was incredible to watch.

 

I have to admit, while I enjoy watching MMA now, I miss the absurdity and oddities of the early UFC's; I had the first 7 or 8 or them on tape.  Harold Howard's awesome catchphrase, a 180 pound guy fighting a 600 pound guy, Keith Hackney's ball punch of doom, and the fact the guys listed their disciplines as things like "Exotics" or "S.A.F.T.A." or "Pit Fighting."  That stuff was great.

 

Also, Don Frye had a head made out of an anvil, and Mark Kerr borderline terrified me when he was at the top of his steroid infused game.

[jnhay]

If both fight tomorrow, I think Rousey has a good chance of winning.  If both fighters train for the fight?  I don't think Rousey has a chance even if she miraculously got Floyd to the ground.

[#98QBKiller]

The UFC rules changes in 1995 Time limits, blowing up the ground game, which the Gracie's found so objectionable had nothing to do with the UFC getting sanctioned. The UFC remained unsanctioned until after the Zuffa Group and Dana White took over in the early 1990's

The rule changes in 1995 had everything to do with trying to make the events more watchable, more exciting. Faster... introduce more action.

 

Not really sure what you're getting at but again, what I posted earlier still stands, political pressure is what ultimately changed the rules of the UFC and led to the time limits/rounds that we see today. Time limits were not introduced to nullify BJJ, which is what you seem to be saying. 

[#98QBKiller]

 

I have to admit, while I enjoy watching MMA now, I miss the absurdity and oddities of the early UFC's; I had the first 7 or 8 or them on tape.  Harold Howard's awesome catchphrase, a 180 pound guy fighting a 600 pound guy, Keith Hackney's ball punch of doom, and the fact the guys listed their disciplines as things like "Exotics" or "S.A.F.T.A." or "Pit Fighting."  That stuff was great.

 

 

Totally agree with this. There has been no period like the early UFCs for absolutely **** show fight entertainment. Those were the events that shaped up fighting as we know it today. It was the bridge between the era of BS "Grand Masters" of fake martial arts, making money off of people that fell for their stories and MMA as we know it today, where those kinds of frauds have a lot tougher time surviving. The early UFCs were the proving grounds for different styles of fighting and showed people what worked and what was just fake. 

 

 

Royce had 5 fights in 5 years in Japan. 4 against grapplers his size with no power, and one against a 600 lb man who could barely move. It's not even in the same realm as what he was going through in the UFC. Those fights in Japan had shorter time limits than 30 minutes, aside from the Saku fight.

Ken Shamrock started learning BJJ right after what happened to him at UFC 1. He was more aware of Royce's game the second time around, he just kneeled there all fight long and played it safe as all heck. Wrestlers emphasizing good takedown defense and huge striking power like Tank and Don Frye were just about to hit the scene. Royce had an amazing run, but I think he got out of there at the right time.

 

 

 

I agree with this and there is no doubt that Royce is a legend and pioneer of both BJJ and MMA. And his performances in the early UFCs changed the fight game forever. I would also add for those who don't know that Rickson is still considered to be the best Gracie (and BJJ practitioner) of all time.