VT's Bold Assertions: Episode Two

[Vilandil Tasardur]

After a very, very long time, I'm finally getting this second round going. For those that may remember, this is a continuation of my original "Bold Assertion", which can be read at the link below:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?362081-VT-s-Bold-Assertions-Episode-One

The game is simple. I come out with a simple, yet controversial assertion. The idea is that it is something which I genuinely believe to be true, yet doubt many will agree with me on. I'll make my pitch first and you guys have at the destruction of the post.

Bold Assertion Number Two Is: Tony Dungy is the most OVERRATED coach in NFL history.

Yeah, yeah. I'm opening up a huge can of worms. I'm going after one of the biggest media darlings ever. He's a hero. A stand up guy. Never gets in trouble, never needs any of the John Gruden style tantrums. Good christian guy. I may even be borderline racist for hating on him right?

I just don't see it. In 6 seasons with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers he averaged a defensive ranking of 5.67, both in points and in yards. That's pretty damn good. But we all know how it turned out. He had a 54-42 W-L record; good for a .556. In that time they had one division championship and 3 wildcard berths.

After being fired by the Bucs, he went to Indy where his fame really took off. In Indy he posted a record of 82-27, or .759. However, during these Peyton Manning led years, his defenses averaged 13.4 in yards and 11.28 in points. They were still top 15, but no longer top 10 or borderline top 5 as they had been in Tampa. Moreover, Dungy was plagued with 5 out of 7 seasons in which they team did not advance beyond the Divisional playoff round, despite having the number 1 QB in the league and having a bye during most of those years. Many have often argued that Peyton Manning was a decent defense away from 3-4 rings instead of only one.

So what say you ES. Is Tony Dungy the most overrated coach? If not, then who is?

[No_Pressure]

No. The most overrated coach in history is Andy Reid! Rawrawrawrawr

[Vilandil Tasardur]

No. The most overrated coach in history is Andy Reid! Rawrawrawrawr

Definitely a candidate. I still lean towards Dungy mostly because Reid at least posted great offenses for many of those years and just couldn't get it done. To me, Reid is much more like the Bills of the 80s. They didn't get the job done, but it wasn't because they weren't good enough. Dungy on the other hand I would say would have been nothing at all without Manning to carry his teams. His defenses were often downright atrocious, especially against the run.

[No_Pressure]

Definitely a candidate. I still lean towards Dungy mostly because Reid at least posted great offenses for many of those years and just couldn't get it done. To me, Reid is much more like the Bills of the 80s. They didn't get the job done, but it wasn't because they weren't good enough. Dungy on the other hand I would say would have been nothing at all without Manning to carry his teams. His defenses were often downright atrocious, especially against the run.

If you ask me, its Reid simply because of his record, employment length prior to this season, love from the media, and failure in big situations. His early success came largely with teams built by guys like Ray Rhodes, especially on defense, and without Jim Johnson he was pretty much nothing. Also, three straight championship game losses and a loss in the superbowl are on him. Everyone in Philly remembers that laughable clock management on their final drive to this day. Andy was incapable of relating to the city and local media, he was incapable of changing faults about himself. He decided to never run the ball, and he built pretty bad offenses. His teams still put up yards and points pretty well for the most part, but they were largely failures in difficult situations from 2005 onward. He was also typically highly praised for Eagles' drafting efforts, as he held major influence over personnel along with Joe Banner, especially from about 2006 onward. The Eagles in reality drafted pretty terribly during that time period, having a number of major flops in the top 3 rounds.

At least Tony won a superbowl. Sure, Peyton Manning was a great QB, but many of the playoff chokes were actually on him or a good opposing defense, and not necessarily the failings of Dungy. He had the Colts defense up to "only" 11-15 or so. Well prior to his arrival under Mora they ranked 31st, 15th, 17th, 29th. Dungy had them in the top 10 for four of his seven seasons in Indianapolis, and without hall of fame caliber players such as Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, and Ronde Barber...Donnie Abraham wasn't too shabby either. Sure, that was with Kiffin, but I think he proved himself in Indy by doing a lot with very little.

I dunno. I think Dungy is a much better coach than Andy Reid, just like I'd say Schottenheimer is, even though we all know Marty is a choke. Sometimes great coaches are playoff chokes, but that doesn't make them overrated. I think Reid is seriously overrated in the sense that he gets more credit than he deserves for the early Eagles successes, and less blame than he deserves for their failures, at least from the national media. Philly knows whats up, so does much of the NFC East.

[Mr. Sinister]

If you ask me, its Reid simply because of his record, employment length prior to this season, love from the media, and failure in big situations. His early success came largely with teams built by guys like Ray Rhodes, especially on defense, and without Jim Johnson he was pretty much nothing. Also, three straight championship game losses and a loss in the superbowl are on him. Everyone in Philly remembers that laughable clock management on their final drive to this day. Andy was incapable of relating to the city and local media, he was incapable of changing faults about himself. He decided to never run the ball, and he built pretty bad offenses. His teams still put up yards and points pretty well for the most part, but they were largely failures in difficult situations from 2005 onward. He was also typically highly praised for Eagles' drafting efforts, as he held major influence over personnel along with Joe Banner, especially from about 2006 onward. The Eagles in reality drafted pretty terribly during that time period, having a number of major flops in the top 3 rounds.

.

I agree with everything you said. I think that Reid/McNabb dominance ended right around the time that the NFC East, and NFC in general, started to get more and more competitive, and they stayed the same, which led to a couple uneven seasons, or earlier than normal exits in the postseason. I also think his general frostiness with the media and fans and pretty much the reason why it seemed like he had very few people in his corner once he was fired.

[DaveMason]

So...bold assertion 1 is "Peyton is an overrated choker!" and bold assertion 2 is "The only reason Tony Dungy won is because he had Peyton Manning the best QB ever!". I like your style, kid.

[Conn]

Well, he can't be the most overrated coach ever because that distinction belongs to Bill Cowher. Can't for the life of me figure out why teams are after him year after year, as he gets further and further away from the game. Now he says he might not return for 4-5 more years. At which point he'll have been out of the game for a decade. And yet he'll still be a hot name on the market.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Remember me?

[TheDoyler23]

Perhaps not in NFL history, but I don't understand why Jeff Fisher is seen as a 'very good/elite' type coach. He's won 5 playoff games in a million years, 3 of which happened with the "Music City Miracle" season.