Cam Newton's sophomore season

[ginsu101]

...

Newton is 1-12 in games decided by 7 pts or less in his two years with Carolina. And, I could be off just a bit on this one, but I think the guy also said Newton was 0-7 this year in games decided by 6 pts or less.

This needs to be elaborated on a more to be of any significance. Does this mean that in those game, the offense had the ball on the final drive and failed to convert? If not, then the blame can't be placed completely on the QB.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

This needs to be elaborated on a more to be of any significance. Does this mean that in those game, the offense had the ball on the final drive and failed to convert? If not, then the blame can't be placed completely on the QB.

or if the QB had a turnover fest

here is a link to the Panthers gamelog, you can judge it yourself (altho that doesnt tell the whole story either)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00/gamelog/

[Bubble Screen]

my word, this is incredible :hysterical:

Im not saying Cam fumbling the ball was good, however if you put the majority of the blame on him, and not the defense, then you are so far gone its not worth it.

Atlanta had the ball on the ONE YARD LINE!!! First play is a 65 yard bomb that Roddy White catches, after the safety showed one of the worst plays on the ball that I have ever seen, and you put that all on Cam? Its so stupid and illogical, but then again it is you typing.

Unless you expect Cam to play safety, then I dont know how you can put the entire loss on him in that Atlanta game.

Maybe you should try reading what is written next time. AGAIN, the game was OVER if Cam doesn't fumble. The fumble happened BEFORE the pass Ryan threw from his own 1 yard line. Had Cam not fumbled they could have RAN OUT THE CLOCK. Therefore, the 65 yard pass that Ryan completed WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED...Did you get it that time?..:doh:

---------- Post added January-5th-2013 at 03:55 PM ----------

The defense gives up a 60 yard pass from the own one yard line with a minute remaining and someone says "You can't put that on the defense"

Can't put it on the defense? Look at the coverage

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1221693/falcons_medium.gif

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/Four0oz2Freedom/seinfeld.gif

Atlanta had no timeouts, bro. Cam fumbled right before that on a 3rd and short. They punted. That's how Atlanta ended up on the 1 yard line. As I just explained to Asia (for what seems like the hundredth time), that play doesn't HAPPEN if Cam hadn't fumbled.

---------- Post added January-5th-2013 at 03:58 PM ----------

This needs to be elaborated on a more to be of any significance. Does this mean that in those game, the offense had the ball on the final drive and failed to convert? If not, then the blame can't be placed completely on the QB.

Dude, it means he's not a winner. Period. Luck, a rookie, taking over a 2-14 team, with the 26th ranked defense and no running game, nearly won as many games in one season as Cam has in two. And he had the MOST 4th quarter/OT comebacks in the NFL. In other words, he has the clutch gene. Cam does not.

[Laron Burgundy]

I think the comparisons between Luck's wins and Cam's are completely unfounded. First off, Carolina has sucked for most of the past decade. Haven't made 3 playoff games in 10 years (same as us). Yes, that absolutely pathetic Colts team had only been to the playoffs in 9 of the past 10 years as well as being 2-3 against the toughest part of their schedule with dan orlovsky, DAN ORLOVSKY, as their qb. They weren't a 2-14 team, they tanked hard.

They also aren't an 11-5 team, but when you have the easiest schedule in the league then things happen. Carolina is at LEAST a 10-6 team with the Colt's schedule, I'm sure they'd kill to have 4 games against the Titans and Jags a year. They had a bad loss against the Chiefs, who, mind you, the Colts struggled with, but other than that Carolina's easy games were against Oakland and Philly. Meanwhile the Colts faced Jags (x2), Titans (x2), Chiefs, Jets, Browns, Lions, and Bills. 9 games against teams 6-10 and worse compared to 3 for Carolina. And mind you their net points against those 9 games against 7 teams drafting in the top 10 is +16, meaning on average they won by less than 2 points... against awful teams. There's just no comparison in schedule strength, I guarantee Indy has a "down" year next year and people start talking about Luck's sophomore slump.

Luck is the benefactor of an extremely soft schedule, that doesn't mean he's more clutch or better than Cam by any means. Luck had 28 tds, 23 turnovers this year, Cam had 35 tds, 19 turnovers last year while accounting for 128 more yards last year. Luck has 11 wins, Cam had 6, though Cam clearly outplayed him in their rookie years.

[Bubble Screen]

I think the comparisons between Luck's wins and Cam's are completely unfounded.So you just disregard the fact that Luck nearly has as many wins as Cam does in two years? O-kay. First off, Carolina has sucked for most of the past decade.The Colts were 2-14 last year. Cam also took over a 2-14 team. Haven't made a playoff game in 7 years. Yes, that absolutely pathetic Colts team had only been to the playoffs in 9 of the past 10 years as well as being 2-3 against the toughest part of their schedule with dan orlovsky, DAN ORLOVSKY, as their qb. They weren't a 2-14 team, they tanked hard. How do you tank and beat the best team in the AFC the 2nd to last game of the year? And they nearly beat the Jags the following week, which would have meant they no longer had the #1 pick. Doesn't seem like a team that was tanking to me.

They also aren't an 11-5 team, but when you have the easiest schedule in the league then things happen.Usually when you finish 2-14 and have the #1 pick you're gonna have the easiest schedule. Or, easy than most. Carolina is at LEAST a 10-6 team with the Colt's schedule,Uh, no they aren't. There is absolutely no way to prove that. I'm sure they'd kill to have 4 games against the Titans and Jags a year.They finished in 2nd place in their division this year, but had a losing record. They had a bad loss against the Chiefs, who, mind you, the Colts struggled with, but other than that Carolina's easy games were against Oakland and Philly. Meanwhile the Colts faced Jags (x2), Titans (x2), Chiefs, Jets, Browns, Lions, and Bills. 9 games against teams 6-10 and worse compared to 3 for Carolina.Carolina was a 6-10 team coming into the year with high expectations. Predicted to go to the playoffs by many in the media. The Colts were 2-14. And picked to win no more than 3 or 4 games by most. They won 11 games. And mind you their net points against those 9 games against 7 teams drafting in the top 10 is +16, meaning on average they won by less than 2 points... against awful teams. There's just no comparison in schedule strength, I guarantee Indy has a "down" year next year and people start talking about Luck's sophomore slump.So are you also gonna predict a sophmore slump for Griffin III?

Luck is the benefactor of an extremely soft schedule, that doesn't mean he's more clutch or better than Cam by any means.Cam has won 13 games in two season. Luck won 11 in his first season. Griffin III won 10 in his first season. Dalton made the playoffs his first TWO seasons. Luck had 28 tds, 23 turnovers this year, Cam had 35 tds, 19 turnovers last year while accounting for 128 more yards last year. Luck has 11 wins, Cam had 6, though Cam clearly outplayed him in their rookie years.

Luck had the most 4th quarter/OT comebacks in the entire league this year. And he did so despite having the 26th ranked defense, one of the worst offensive lines in football, no running game. Cam? He's 1-12 in his career in games decided by 7 pts or less. 0-7 this year in games decided by 6 pts or less.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I think the comparisons between Luck's wins and Cam's are completely unfounded. First off, Carolina has sucked for most of the past decade. Haven't made a playoff game in 7 years. Yes, that absolutely pathetic Colts team had only been to the playoffs in 9 of the past 10 years as well as being 2-3 against the toughest part of their schedule with dan orlovsky, DAN ORLOVSKY, as their qb. They weren't a 2-14 team, they tanked hard.

They also aren't an 11-5 team, but when you have the easiest schedule in the league then things happen. Carolina is at LEAST a 10-6 team with the Colt's schedule, I'm sure they'd kill to have 4 games against the Titans and Jags a year. They had a bad loss against the Chiefs, who, mind you, the Colts struggled with, but other than that Carolina's easy games were against Oakland and Philly. Meanwhile the Colts faced Jags (x2), Titans (x2), Chiefs, Jets, Browns, Lions, and Bills. 9 games against teams 6-10 and worse compared to 3 for Carolina. And mind you their net points against those 9 games against 7 teams drafting in the top 10 is +16, meaning on average they won by less than 2 points... against awful teams. There's just no comparison in schedule strength, I guarantee Indy has a "down" year next year and people start talking about Luck's sophomore slump.

Luck is the benefactor of an extremely soft schedule, that doesn't mean he's more clutch or better than Cam by any means. Luck had 28 tds, 23 turnovers this year, Cam had 35 tds, 19 turnovers last year while accounting for 128 more yards last year. Luck has 11 wins, Cam had 6, though Cam clearly outplayed him in their rookie years.

dawg, you are debating with someone who has a very simplistic view of the game.

Carolina's SOS was over .500 this season, and they are a sorry team. The Colts SOS was like .438.

If the schedules were swapped, the Panthers maybe end up 11-5 in the playoffs while the Colts are under .500

Even last year's Panthers SOS was over .500

[Bubble Screen]

dawg, you are debating with someone who has a very simplistic view of the game.

Carolina's SOS was over .500 this season, and they are a sorry team. The Colts SOS was like .438.

If the schedules were swapped, the Panthers maybe end up 11-5 in the playoffs while the Colts are under .500

Just because I don't deal in hypotheticals I have a simplistic view of the game? You're the guy blaming Carolina's defense for the first Atlanta loss, when it was in fact your beloved Cam Newton that cost them the game.

I love how you can predict the future, man. Why not just go off what we KNOW. Like, for instance, Luck taking a team from 2-14 to 11-5 and in the playoffs. I'm sure Cam will get there...someday.

---------- Post added January-5th-2013 at 08:41 PM ----------

dawg, you are debating with someone who has a very simplistic view of the game.

Carolina's SOS was over .500 this season, and they are a sorry team. The Colts SOS was like .438.

If the schedules were swapped, the Panthers maybe end up 11-5 in the playoffs while the Colts are under .500

Even last year's Panthers SOS was over .500

Bored, so thought I'd do a little quick research...

These were Cam's wins in his rookie season:

- @ home vs Jacksonville (Jags were 5-11)

- @ home vs Washington (Redskins were 5-11 and were starting John Beck)

- @ Indy (Colts were 2-14)

- @ Tampa (Bucs were 4-12)

- @ Houston (Matt Schaub didn't play)

- @ home vs Tampa (again, Bucs were 4-12)

*And until Carolina beat Atlanta this year, Cam had never beaten a team with a winning record that had their starting QB. Pathetic.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Fookin hell

http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type/playoffs/year/2011

thats last year's SOS for all teams in teh NFL

This is this year's

http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type/playoffs

I didnt call the Panthers a good team (and I have been arguing against how good they are all season), The Panthers strength of victory this season is a lot better than the Colts.

You have a very simple view of the game. Nothing is wrong with that, but dont get upset when someone calls you out for it.

[Bubble Screen]

The Colts were 2-14 last season. Therefore, talking about their SOS is beyond ridiculous. They're SUPPOSED to have an easier schedule than most. They were the WORST team in football last year. The Panthers were also 2-14 the year before Cam got there. In his two years, he's only beaten ONE team with a winning record that started their QB. Luck rallied his Colts down 21-3 to beat the Packers in his rookie season. And he's had the most 4th quarter/OT comebacks in the NFL this year. Some guys are winners. Some aren't.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

The Colts were 2-14 last season. Therefore, talking about their SOS is beyond ridiculous. They're SUPPOSED to have an easier schedule than most.

the Panthers finished 2-14 in 2010, and yet had a schedule that was over .500 last year.

Why do you like to dismiss numbers and facts?

They were the WORST team in football last year. The Panthers were also 2-14 the year before Cam got there. In his two years, he's only beaten ONE team with a winning record that started their QB. Luck rallied his Colts down 21-3 to beat the Packers in his rookie season. And he's had the most 4th quarter/OT comebacks in the NFL this year. Some guys are winners. Some aren't.

yeah, just simplistic.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Thanks for this thread. I can't tell you how many people that have used Cam as an example of how RGIII will be figured out. I don't understand the hate for Cam. I personally like him. The "character issues" crap is just that...crap.

Michael Jeffrey Jordan was probably the biggest douche in the history of sports (HE FRIGGIN PUNCHED STEVE KERR IN THE FACE DURING A SCRIMMAGE). Cam doesn't have to be a saint to earn respect on-field.

As far as the "head down on the bench" mess goes, I've seen Brady do the same and even much worse when his squad was getting busted

[skinfan2k]

I don't care how horrible your team is. A franchise QB in his 2nd season should be able to do better than 7-9 with many of those wins coming after you are eliminated from playoff contention

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I don't care how horrible your team is. A franchise QB in his 2nd season should be able to do better than 7-9 with many of those wins coming after you are eliminated from playoff contention

if your team is crap, there aint much you can do bruh.

[Bubble Screen]

I don't care how horrible your team is. A franchise QB in his 2nd season should be able to do better than 7-9 with many of those wins coming after you are eliminated from playoff contention

The Panthers started 1-6 this year. And finished 7-9. And Cam played great the past two months. I'll give him that. However, the bottom line is, the Panthers still didn't meet expectations, and Cam was a big reason for that. As has been noted, he directly cost them the first Atlanta game. He cost them the Seattle game. They led the Bucs 21-10 with 4 minutes left, only to lose in OT. They blew a 4th quarter lead at Chicago.

Cam is 1-12 in games decided by 7 pts or less in his career. And 0-7 this year in games decided by 6 pts or less. He's only beaten one team with a winning record ever, that had their starting QB. He's a great fantasy QB. But he's not a winner.

---------- Post added January-5th-2013 at 09:22 PM ----------

if your team is crap, there aint much you can do bruh.

Simplistic.

[Laron Burgundy]

See, calling qb's winners is the same type of talk that gave Sanchez a huge deal last year. He was awful and the team carried him. But all he did was win, right? So did Tebow and Vince Young. Not at all saying Luck compares to that, but I would take Cam every single sunday over those three "winners."

Like I told you, this Indy team was 2-3 with Orlovsky at qb, and yet played Painter for most of the year. They didn't bench him until AFTER he put up 3 sub-100 yard efforts in 4 games. Saying that team was a 2-14 team talent-wise is a joke. They were a talented team with absolutely nothing at qb. That's this year's KC or Arizona. Both of those teams could see a major turnaround with a good qb.

I'm not ignoring that Luck got 11 wins, that IS an impressive feat, but ignoring his sos as well as his margin of victory AND pretending the Colts are a talentless team when they have 3 first ballot HoFers? C'mon, now THAT'S delusional.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 12:11 AM ----------

And as far as if Griffin has a sophomore slump, if Luck's schedule just goes to average it will be less of a jump than if ours will go from 24th to 3rd toughest in the league. I don't think you really understand how baby soft their schedule was this year.

[Bubble Screen]

Laron, the Colts had Freeney and Mathis last year, and those guys are still there this year, too. Guess what, their defense is ranked 26th!!! And as I said, the Colts have a terrible offensive line, no running game whatsoever and yet he's improved that team from 2 wins to 11! It's comical how so many fans act like that is no big deal. If it were no big deal, then why did Peyton Manning not win 11 games his rookie year? Or, more recently, Cam Newton? Newton also inherited a 2-14 team. He's won 13 games...in two years.

[Laron Burgundy]

Laron, the Colts had Freeney and Mathis last year, and those guys are still there this year, too. Guess what, their defense is ranked 26th!!! And as I said, the Colts have a terrible offensive line, no running game whatsoever and yet he's improved that team from 2 wins to 11! It's comical how so many fans act like that is no big deal. If it were no big deal, then why did Peyton Manning not win 11 games his rookie year? Or, more recently, Cam Newton? Newton also inherited a 2-14 team. He's won 13 games...in two years.

Because those guys faced real schedules in their first year? As far as terrible offensive line and run game, Cam leads the panthers in rushing, take out Deangelo's 210 yards in a meaningless game and the Panthers rbs average .5 ypc fewer than the Colt's rbs, tying them for dead last in the league, AND Cam gets sacked at a higher rate than Luck, so I don't know if I'd really go around with the whole bad supporting cast shtick.

If, everything being equal, how does a player gain more yards, has more tds, and fewer turnovers yet lose more games? 4th quarter heroics? Luck has a 75 qb rating in the 4th, Cam has a 95. Something has got to give logically. Either Luck has a better supporting cast, or he has an easier schedule, or it is some combination of the two (answer C is correct).

Wins aren't everything when comparing two teams who never played eachother. Colts have a worse point differential despite playing an easier schedule and have 4 more wins. I'll go on the record and bet the Colts win fewer games than the Panthers next year.

[Bubble Screen]

Because those guys faced real schedules in their first year? As far as terrible offensive line and run game, Cam leads the panthers in rushing, take out Deangelo's 210 yards in a meaningless game and the Panthers rbs average .5 ypc fewer than the Colt's rbs, tying them for dead last in the league, AND Cam gets sacked at a higher rate than Luck, so I don't know if I'd really go around with the whole bad supporting cast shtick.

If, everything being equal, how does a player gain more yards, has more tds, and fewer turnovers yet lose more games? Is he not getting those tds in the right moments? Because last I recall a td is worth 6 points regardless of when you get it. 4th quarter heroics? Luck has a 75 qb rating in the 4th, Cam has a 95. Something has got to give logically. Either Luck has a better supporting cast, or he has an easier schedule, or it is some combination of the two (answer C is correct).

Wins aren't everything when comparing two teams who never played eachother. Colts have a worse point differential despite playing an easier schedule and have 4 more wins. I'll go on the record and bet the Colts win fewer games than the Panthers next year.

Man, there's just no getting through to you guys. Anyway, I guess in a year or so, when he's still not winning games, you'll come to understand. Sigh.

[Laron Burgundy]

Oh, and guess who was 7-1 in close games last year? John Skelton. Dalton 4-5. Aaron Rodgers is an unbelievable 6-20 in close games where he could have had a 4th quarter comeback. Take it with a grain of salt, it really doesn't mean anything.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 01:40 AM ----------

Man, there's just no getting through to you guys. Anyway, I guess in a year or so, when he's still not winning games, you'll come to understand. Sigh.

Sig bet that Colts win fewer games than the Panthers next year?

[Zazzaro703]

Man, there's just no getting through to you guys. Anyway, I guess in a year or so, when he's still not winning games, you'll come to understand. Sigh.

I'm with you. Strength of schedule doesn't really matter because you can only play the games on the schedule. Plus this is the NFL, there are no easy games on the schedule. Any given Sunday. The eye test tells me Cam Netwon doesn't win games when the games are important and are there for him to win. Winners find ways to win. Period. they dont fumble away games putting their defense in a situation where they can get caught with their pants down. a winning QB holds onto the football and kills the clock. If Cam was a great QB, he'd make the players around him better and we wouldn't be having this discussion about no talent around him. Example, our offensive line went from glaring weakness to strength overnight because of one man.

[RiverboatGambler]

Oh, and guess who was 7-1 in close games last year? John Skelton. Dalton 4-5. Aaron Rodgers is an unbelievable 6-20 in close games where he could have had a 4th quarter comeback. Take it with a grain of salt, it really doesn't mean anything.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 01:40 AM ----------

Sig bet that Colts win fewer games than the Panthers next year?

One of the most intelligent posts I've seen here in a while. Someone get this man a drink!

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Oh, and guess who was 7-1 in close games last year? John Skelton. Dalton 4-5. Aaron Rodgers is an unbelievable 6-20 in close games where he could have had a 4th quarter comeback. Take it with a grain of salt, it really doesn't mean anything.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 01:40 AM ----------

Sig bet that Colts win fewer games than the Panthers next year?

:thumbsup:

[Bubble Screen]

Oh, and guess who was 7-1 in close games last year? John Skelton. Dalton 4-5. Aaron Rodgers is an unbelievable 6-20 in close games where he could have had a 4th quarter comeback. Take it with a grain of salt, it really doesn't mean anything.

John Skelton is an anomaly. That's apparently obvious, since he wasn't even good enough to remain the starter in Arizona, despite a roster full of terrible QBs.

The rest of your post is complete bunk. Aaron Rodgers was actually 5-1 last year in games decided by 7 pts or less. Tom Brady 4-2. Drew Brees 4-1. And Andy Dalton was 6-3. Nice try. Did you think you could just throw out make believe stats and I wouldn't check?:rotflmao:

Cam Newton was 1-5 in games decided by 7 pts or less.

[Laron Burgundy]

John Skelton is an anomaly. That's apparently obvious, since he wasn't even good enough to remain the starter in Arizona, despite a roster full of terrible QBs.

The rest of your post is complete bunk. Aaron Rodgers was actually 5-1 last year in games decided by 7 pts or less. Tom Brady 4-2. Dree Brees 4-1. And Andy Dalton was 6-3. Nice try. Did you think you could just throw out make believe stats and I wouldn't check?:rotflmao:

Nope, that's not in close games where they were behind or tied and had a chance at a comeback. If you're leading in the 4th but they make it close, that's not exactly a 4th quarter comeback, is it?

[Bubble Screen]

Nope, that's not in close games where they were behind or tied and had a chance at a comeback. If you're leading in the 4th but they make it close, that's not exactly a 4th quarter comeback, is it?

Dude, give up. You were exposed.