Cam Newton's sophomore season

[Laron Burgundy]

Dude, give up. You were exposed.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/captain-comeback-career-records-the-clutch-for-active-qbs/16571/

Stop being simple. You can't have a 4th quarter comeback without actually trailing in the 4th quarter. Winning close games is a different thing altogether, but if we're talking about clutch it's gotta be when you're the one that wins it for your team.

[Bubble Screen]

Oh, and guess who was 7-1 in close games last year? John Skelton. Dalton 4-5. Aaron Rodgers is an unbelievable 6-20 in close games where he could have had a 4th quarter comeback. Take it with a grain of salt, it really doesn't mean anything.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 01:40 AM ----------

Sig bet that Colts win fewer games than the Panthers next year?

John Skelton is an anomaly. That's apparently obvious, since he wasn't even good enough to remain the starter in Arizona, despite a roster full of terrible QBs.

The rest of your post is complete bunk. Aaron Rodgers was actually 5-1 last year in games decided by 7 pts or less. Tom Brady 4-2. Drew Brees 4-1. And Andy Dalton was 6-3. Nice try. Did you think you could just throw out make believe stats and I wouldn't check?:rotflmao:

Cam Newton was 1-5 in games decided by 7 pts or less.

Nope, that's not in close games where they were behind or tied and had a chance at a comeback. If you're leading in the 4th but they make it close, that's not exactly a 4th quarter comeback, is it?

Dude, the latest discussion was "close games". You even mentioned Skelton being 7-1 last year in "close games" (i.e. games decided by 7 pts or less). The comeback thing I mentioned about Luck was a few pages back. You're confused.

[Laron Burgundy]

Dude, the latest discussion was "close games". You even mentioned Skelton being 7-1 last year in "close games" (i.e. games decided by 7 pts or less). The comeback thing I mentioned about Luck was a few pages back. You're confused.

I abbreviated what I was talking about, because Skelton was 7-1 in games where he was tied or trailing by 1-8 points in the 4th quarter, which is the definition of making a game-winning drive. All the talk about Luck is his ability in those situations. Cam, meanwhile, was 1-8 in such situations last year. Regardless, remind me why just winning close games in a team sport is a qb stat again. I can see game-winning drives where the qb must make plays to win, sure, but when your team is trying to hold the lead it has in the 4th quarter they are relying on the rb and d much more than the qb.

[Bubble Screen]

I abbreviated what I was talking about, because Skelton was 7-1 in games where he was tied or trailing by 1-8 points in the 4th quarter, which is the definition of making a game-winning drive. All the talk about Luck is his ability in those situations. Cam, meanwhile, was 1-8 in such situations last year. Regardless, remind me why just winning close games in a team sport is a qb stat again. I can see game-winning drives where the qb must make plays to win, sure, but when your team is trying to hold the lead it has in the 4th quarter they are relying on the rb and d much more than the qb.

Both stats are relevant. The comeback stat, where Luck led the NFL, is relevant because it shows the guy is a leader who can rally his team to victory. And yes, he was sometimes responsible for them falling behind in games with the turnovers and whatnot. But it shows incredible poise to be a rookie and bring your team back SEVEN times in the 4th quarter and or OT, to win games.

But that wasn't the latest conversation: our latest was dealing with the records of QBs in close games. And with just about any stat, there will be an exception. And Skelton was that, last year. Dude, you're really looking silly to keep bringing him up. Despite going 7-1 down the stretch, he wasn't even good enough to keep his job this year. And when he played, he was terrible. I listed the records of all the top QBs in the league and their records in games by decided by 7 pts or less. And all of them were solid in such situations.

Bottom line, Cam Newton just hasn't proven he's a winner. Doesn't mean he won't ever develop into one. He's just not there. And it's laughable that so many of you guys keep coming to this bum's defense.

[Laron Burgundy]

Matt Cassel was 4-2 in games decided by 7 points or less in 2010. Tebow was 6-0 in close games last year (and he can't even start over Sanchez or that 6th round rookie). The awesome Jake Delhomme was an almost perfect 5-1 in close games in 2008. He had 17 tds to 15 turnovers that year, which was just a phenomenal individual effort in those wins. Vince Young was 6-3 in 2007. He had an even more impressive campaign than Delhomme, with 12 total tds to 20 turnovers, but all that kid did was win games.

Basically what I'm saying is your stat does not correlate with actual quarterback skill, therefor it is an invalid stat with which to compare qbs. Being a "winner" is one of the dumbest arguments for a qb, and time after time it sorts itself out. The wins eventually even out. Manning was 5-5 in 2010 for close games, 5-4 in 2007, 1-3 in 2001, 4-6 in 2000; Brady was 3-5 in 2009.

Let me explain to you how bad this Colts team was last year. They released 8 players who became starters for other teams. Tell me, when a team can cut 8 guys who become starters on other clubs, and the team considers these guys as unimportant to their rebuild, don't you think maybe Indy had a bit more talent than a 2-14 team? In comparison, Carolina cut a ton of starters after 2010 and 3 of them started for other teams.

[Bubble Screen]

Again, you can find a few exceptions each year that are unexplainable (Skelton). But to say the stat is "dumb", well, that's just not accurate. Oftentimes in the NFL games are gonna come down to the wire. How you do in those games is relevant. Read through the other Cam thread. The Panthers won 7 games this year. And should have won several more. Cam directly cost them the first Atlanta game. And he also cost them the Seattle one. And the Bears game, they led nearly the entire game. Same with the second Bucs game. All those games were there for the taking and they didn't win ANY of them. Hell, they led the Bucs 21-10 with 4 minutes left!! Now, I'm not saying Cam was the reason they lost all of them. But like I said, he cost them the Falcons and Seahawks ones. Elite QBs don't fumble the ball away when you can run the clock out. And he wasn't even stripped of the ball. He ran into his OWN MAN haha!! And go look at the tape of the end of the Seattle game. Dude had a WIDE OPEN TE in the endzone, all he had to do was toss the ball 5 yards or so to him. He BOUNCED it a few feet in front of him. He's not a winner. Period. He showed it last year in close games, and he more or less repeated it this year.

---------- Post added January-7th-2013 at 03:35 AM ----------

By the way, this conversation is getting stale. Just admit you tried passing off bogus stats and be done with it. We spend way too much time talking about this clown.

[Laron Burgundy]

If there are exceptions every year, wouldn't that seem to counter that Luck is a great qb with only one year of evidence? Certainly this could be his 2011 Skelton. It's a silly stat to use as a comparison between qbs because it is often not reliant on the qb at all. How bout that 2006 sexy Rexy at 5-1 in close games?

But if you are so confident that Luck is the more clutch qb, and that Cam is just not a winner, then let's get a sig bet going for next year. Certainly a simple view of history says your view is right, that Cam just doesn't win games and Luck took the 2-14 Colts to 11-5. Heck, the Colts get KC, Oakland, Jags (x2), Titans (x2) and Arizona, I'm practically gifting you 7 wins. Meanwhile Carolina only has 3 games against teams with top 10 picks. Next year if Carolina doesn't win more games than the Colts then I'll use a non-obscene sig of your choice for 3 months and vice versa for you if I win the bet, deal?

[pjfootballer]

One thing that has to bother you is the end of the year runs. Like our Wizards, Cam seems to only put it together after the season is lost. They were 2-8 in 2011 and won 4 of their last 6. This year they were 2-8 and won 5 of their last 6. It's like too little too late. He needs to learn to be able to win games at the beginning of the year and not waiting until the end. I mean, when you are 2-8, you have nothing to lose and can start playing more loose.

[Bubble Screen]

One thing that has to bother you is the end of the year runs. Like our Wizards, Cam seems to only put it together after the season is lost. They were 2-8 in 2011 and won 4 of their last 6. This year they were 2-8 and won 5 of their last 6. It's like too little too late. He needs to learn to be able to win games at the beginning of the year and not waiting until the end. I mean, when you are 2-8, you have nothing to lose and can start playing more loose.

Yeah, man, I've definitely noticed that. In his brief NFL career, he seems to only play well when there is no pressure. That's definitely gotta change if he's gonna take that next step.

Btw, did you hear Marc James today? He was busting on Richardson for bringing Rivera back before hiring a GM. And he's right. That's just assinine. Don't get me wrong, I thought they should give Rivera at least one more year, too. However, I thought they'd hire the GM first. Now, what GM is gonna want to take that job, knowing that he can't make all the decisions? The Panthers have always done everything ass backwards. That explains why they've only been to the playoffs 3 times. Remember Richardson RAISING ticket prices the year after they finished 1-15?..

[pjfootballer]

Yeah, man, I've definitely noticed that. In his brief NFL career, he seems to only play well when there is no pressure. That's definitely gotta change if he's gonna take that next step.

Btw, did you hear Marc James today? He was busting on Richardson for bringing Rivera back before hiring a GM. And he's right. That's just assinine. Don't get me wrong, I thought they should give Rivera at least one more year, too. However, I thought they'd hire the GM first. Now, what GM is gonna want to take that job, knowing that he can't make all the decisions? The Panthers have always done everything ass backwards. That explains why they've only been to the playoffs 3 times. Remember Richardson RAISING ticket prices the year after they finished 1-15?..

I listened and they were talking about some guy with the Giants who is "friends" with Ron Rivera. That won't go over well if they start off bad again and he'll have to fire his "friend" after being on the job less than a year.