Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[ABQCOWBOY]

The point is not to discuss food stamps but rather to put the debate in context. 

 

Less than 1.5% of Americans will possibly lose their plan for not meeting minimum standards.

 

14% of Americans lost benefits via food stamp cuts.

 

This is completely false.  This less then 1.5% is not a realistic number.  Currently, approximately 4.5 to 5 million have lost insurance benefits but that number is going to rise dramatically.  Eventually, that number is going to rise significantly and we all know why.  Some estimates conclude that over 100 Million Americans will lose their coverages.  This number is going to get much worse in the coming months and years. 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Its not fun to watch.  Not at all.

 

You guys are acting like every day if the "big day" where something huge is happening.  Yet nothing is going to happen like that.  Obamacare is not going anywhere.

 

Now, if you want to make changes to the law that will prevent some of the problems, the GOP should do that, and you can debate if they are good or bad.

 

But, there is an insanity spreading around right now, that any minute Obamacare is going to collapse or somehow health care is going to reject Obamacare wholesale.  Its not going to happen.

 

This is not a day by day story.  Its going to take months and years to see what happens.  Everyone breathe in and relax.

 

It's not going to take that long for us to see what happens.  This thing, IMO, is doomed and in all likelihood, will cost the Democratic Party dearly in the coming elections.   They have committed the cardinal sin and that is to implement something that is so costly to the American People and then lie about it.   I see nothing good coming out of this. 

[twa]

The ineptitude is astounding. I feel like I'm watching a Redskins football game...

 

Obama threatens to veto bill that fulfills his promise of keeping your ins.

 

the crowd goes wild

[ABQCOWBOY]

The House just passed the bill to extend for a year.  Vote carried 261-157 with 39 Dems voting in favor of the bill.  Bailing water off the Titanic with a tea spoon.

Edited November 15, 2013 by ABQCOWBOY

[Larry]

To extend what? 

[chipwhich]

To extend what? 

 

Surely you jest....

[Elessar78]

The House just passed the bill to extend for a year.  Vote carried 261-157 with 39 Dems voting in favor of the bill.  Bailing water off the Titanic with a tea spoon.

When the GOP/Tea Party were buying time by delaying the initiation of the bill, what was that? Sticking your finger in a dike?

[ABQCOWBOY]

When the GOP/Tea Party were buying time by delaying the initiation of the bill, what was that? Sticking your finger in a dike?

 

When the Democrats sold this bill to the American people by lying about it, what was that, execution by design?

 

That door swings both ways but much more heavily towards the Presidents agenda IMO.   That is a fight the Democratic Party can't win IMO.  

[twa]

When the GOP/Tea Party were buying time by delaying the initiation of the bill, what was that? Sticking your finger in a dike?

 

I'd go with jousting at windmills.....surely you joust?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'd go with jousting at windmills.....surely you joust?

 

Have to be honest TWA, I see no good solution to this piece of..........  legislation.   I don't know if it will pass the Senate Floor or not but I would not be surprised to see it pass in the Senate.  It provides political cover for the Democratic Party through the next elections but honestly, I'm not sure it does anything.  It's only for a year.  Who is going to retool for such a short duration, only to have to go back and do it all over again in a years time?  I'm not even sure it can be done, even if we wanted it.  This is a mess, plain and simple.

[twa]

It certainly is a mess and there will not be much cover from any voter with half a brain, the ins companies will revolt unless paid off and the states are going to squeal.

 

meanwhile ins rates will still go up for most.

 

It will be fun seeing how charitable some Dem voters are with their own money

[chipwhich]

If this was a Republican mess, there would be 100 times the activity in this thread on this board......

 

All I hear is crickets.  See no evil.  Speak no evil.  Hear no evil.  Post no evil.

[Elessar78]

The political gamesmanship goes both ways. Only the ludicrously partisan would believe that the GOP/TP has not uttered one half-truth or full on lie in an attempt to get ACA repealed. 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The political gamesmanship goes both ways. Only the ludicrously partisan would believe that the GOP/TP has not uttered one half-truth or full on lie in an attempt to get ACA repealed. 

 

In retrospect, how do you find fault with anybody trying to reverse, what is clearly a terrible Law?

[deejaydana]

If this was a Republican mess, there would be 100 times the activity in this thread on this board......

 

All I hear is crickets.  See no evil.  Speak no evil.  Hear no evil.  Post no evil.

isn't that the truth. I recall debating, somewhat casually on my side, JMS who steadfastly posted that you could add 1) 30 million folks to an entitlement while 2) adding/enhancing to the robust quality of the service AND 3) ALSO make it cost less while doing so. He probably could have had a seat on the Obama team if he wanted to as he would have fit right in w/that logic.

Edited November 15, 2013 by deejaydana

[Elessar78]

In retrospect, how do you find fault with anybody trying to reverse, what is clearly a terrible Law?

Because I don't think it's a terrible law.

 

96% of American businesses have fewer than 50 employees—so they're not affected by ACA. 

 

90% of the companies of the remaining 4% of companies ALREADY offer health insurance. Sure they may face higher premiums, but rising premiums have been a mainstay for these companies already. 

 

So, you're left with 3% of American companies who are in that gray area where they are, possibly, negatively impacted. 

[Elessar78]

isn't that the truth. I recall debating, somewhat casually on my side, JMS who steadfastly posted that you could add 1) 30 million folks to an entitlement while 2) adding/enhancing to the robust quality of the service AND 3) ALSO make it cost less while doing so. He probably could have had a seat on the Obama team if he wanted to as he would have fit right in w/that logic.

Not sure what JMS said but, in classic Conservative style (the party that, by name, doesn't want anything to change and stay the way it is), the GOP offer no solutions. They are perfectly content to continue down the same path even though health care expenditures have been a runaway train.

 

All they've done is huff and puff that this is the terrible idea, it's the wrong approach—where's the Conservative solution (well, there's the whole Heritage Foundation angle)? It's all limited to soundbite politics/fear mongering—"socialism", "free market", blah, blah. 

[chipwhich]

Not sure what JMS said but, in classic Conservative style (the party that, by name, doesn't want anything to change and stay the way it is), the GOP offer no solutions. They are perfectly content to continue down the same path even though health care expenditures have been a runaway train.

 

All they've done is huff and puff that this is the terrible idea, it's the wrong approach—where's the Conservative solution (well, there's the whole Heritage Foundation angle)? It's all limited to soundbite politics/fear mongering—"socialism", "free market", blah, blah. 

 

No offense Elessar, but probably the dumbest excuse is the "well at least we did something" argument.

It's a terrible idea, and a DISASTER.  And it's going to get worse.  There is nothing anyone can do at this point now that everyone realizes how bad it is but sit and watch the wreck.

[twa]

Because I don't think it's a terrible law.

 

96% of American businesses have fewer than 50 employees—so they're not affected by ACA.

I take it you are not familiar with the IRS ruling on franchises? ....in short you are wrong

http://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/irs-issues-proposed-rule-aca-play-or-pay-requirements

and with the fact ACA affects the ins offered by even those deemed exempt.

[Elessar78]

And how many large employers don't meet the minimum standards? 

 

What This Means for Employers

The release of the long-awaited proposed rules provides a degree of much-needed clarity for employers facing the 2014 trigger of the play-or-pay penalty. However, the challenge to prepare for full implementation of ACA remains great. The proposed rules confirm the flexibility and safe harbors outlined in previous guidance. Yet, employers must contend with significant administrative burdens and make key strategic considerations in the months ahead.  

 

[twa]

And how many large employers don't meet the minimum standards?

I would guess quite a few, the number of policy cancellations could be a clue,as well as the rate hikes.

[chipwhich]

My company insurance didn't meet the standards, the adjusted them don't you know to add stuff like the free birth control.  It meets the standards now, but this all happened last year in preparation for the law.  Rates went up too.

[Elessar78]

I would guess quite a few, the number of policy cancellations could be a clue,as well as the rate hikes.

Like I've said multiple times, ridiculous rate hikes with no end in sight was already part of the game with nothing being done about it. 

 

Don't like it? Propose something better. The GOP candidate did not propose anything given  the platform would've been perfect. The House has not proposed anything.

 

I find all this discussion about a law fatiguing. All any of us can do is sit back it watch it fail, sputter along, or roar to life. It's disingenuous to say any of us know how it will pan out. The first hurdle is getting young people to sign up. If they don't, this law is a non-starter. 

 

Frankly, don't know how much I care if Subway or Denny's has to lay off people. We can use less of these franchises anyway making crap food and making us fat. Maybe, in a world of unintended consequences this will be a huge positive one. 

[twa]

You're tired?    there are a number of things those motivated can do about a piss poor law

 

 

take a seat and rest dem bones

[Elessar78]

such as? go out and vote? been there done that.