freakofthesouth Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 NFL.com asked their analysts 'who is the #1 receiver in the NFL?' Art Shell reponded: "At this time, three weeks into the season, I would say Laveranues Coles of the Redskins. I don't think I'm going out on a limb with that. Coles is creating havoc. He caught seven passes the other day and thought he had a terrible game. With an attitude like that, he's going to be something special. He already is something special for Washington; a great addition to what Washington is doing this year in the passing game. He's the catalyst for what they're doing offensively. People know the ball is going to him and he's still making things happen. He's making the biggest impact for his football team." Also, on NFL.com, there is a poll of which receiver will have the most yards at the end of the season- Coles, Hines Ward, and others. Coles is DOMINATING the poll, w/ over 45% of the votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Agree with him 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTerps2002 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I love Coles heart.... That is what makes him special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I think we as Redskins fans should contribute money towards a nice thank you gift to the JETS owner Woody Johnson and their dolt of a GM Terry Bradway, thanking them for being so dumb as to not only low balling Coles on their contract offer but for only tendering him with only a 1st round pick as compensation. When then need to send an even bigger thank you to Daniel Snyder for having the balls to do what it takes to make this team better and doing something no other owner would have done. :applause: :respect: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Funny how his 13 mil signing bonus has disappered from conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by RTerps2002 I love Coles heart.... That is what makes him special AMEN:cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 why can't art shell get another coaching job in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigchuck Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Man ive been wondering the same thing about Art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBlue Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 What is sad is that Art Shell can't get another job yet freaking Dennis Erickson can?? Not sure if it is racism or just stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I don't happen to believe NFL owners are necessarily racist OR stupid when it comes to "minority hiring." Or in Bidwells' case, racist. They've seen Shell's record under Al Davis. And yet, every year, a number of struggling teams desperate for a turnaround don't even give him a sniff. There's gotta be a reason for that, and I've come to believe maybe whatever it is has as much to do with Art himself as anything we can pin on the owners. NFL owners have been slow to hire black head coaches, no doubt about it. But they ARE hiring them now, and nobody thinks twice about it any more. Seems to me it's quite possible that Art Shell's biggest problem may be Art Shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBlue Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Om NFL owners have been slow to hire black head coaches, no doubt about it. But they ARE hiring them now, and nobody thinks twice about it any more. Seems to me it's quite possible that Art Shell's biggest problem may be Art Shell. You may well be right about Shell, but I have to disagree that with your implication that racism does not exist in hiring head coaches in the NFL. 32 NFL teams and 3 black head coaches that I can think of (Lewis, Dungy and Edwards -- am I leaving anyone out?). Not exactly what i'd call a rush towards equality especially condidering the percentage of black players in the NFL. While I don't support the actions of Cochran's firm (i've had a few cases with his firm and I think his motives are purely pecuniary -- for him) and the silly settlement the NFL reached with them, I believe there certainly is a problem, just a very difficult one to solve. jmho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 IMO there is no doubt that most NFL coaches get selected from a pool made up mostly of the good old boys. Historically, you had to be white to get into the network - the same was true for most high level professions. While racism may not be as prevalent today, many owners are from the older generations where those antiquated views still hold some weight. It is also a factor that HCs generally get selected from the ranks of coordinators and until those positions are filled with more diverse people, there are fewer "qualified" minorities to choose from. I don't know about Shell, maybe he is an ass, but it is hard to come to a conclusion other than some level of racism when guys like Tice, Erickson, and Del Rio are head coaches when guys like Cottrell, Rhodes, Green(and until recently Marvin Lewis) aren't HC's. To me this is just another reason to be proud of SOS and DS for being the first NFL team to have two minority coordinators at the same time in history. If you take race and favoritism out of it I think minorities would have a lot more coaching positions in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 NBLue, again, I am absolutely not suggesting there HAS not been a problem with hiring minority head coaches, but I am comfortable enough suggesting that today, in 2003, if there are still owners who would hesitate to hire a best-qualified kind of candidate based on skin color alone, he would be not only an utter fool, but one of very few left who would do so. The story when Cincinnati hired Marvin Lewis this year wasn't that Lewis was black, it was that he was the most qualified candidate and it was about damn time he got a job. When Herm Edwards got hired in New York a couple years ago, the story was not that be was black, but that he was the best qualified and impressive as hell in the interview and it was about damn time he got a job. Romeo Crenell will get a HC job soon, IF he interviews well. As will the gentlemen coordinating I believe in Buffalo (Wilson?) ... IF he interviews well. As will George Edwards, eventually, if he succeeds as DC here AND interviews well when the time comes. Seen without the context of what's gone before, I agree that the 3 out of 32 numbers are stark. But viewed in the context of how little play the "black" aspect of the last couple of black hires got, I think the days where this is the lead story when a black coach gets the nod are over. Says here that in 10 years, we'll be looking at black head coaches throughout the league, and nobody will notice their numbers or percentages of representation any more than anybody talks about the numbers of black coordinators today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFunky1 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by thinker I don't know about Shell, maybe he is an ass, but it is hard to come to a conclusion other than some level of racism when guys like Tice, Erickson, and Del Rio are head coaches when guys like Cottrell, Rhodes, Green(and until recently Marvin Lewis) aren't HC's. I'm not trying to poke a stick in the hornets nest, however... Rhodes turned down the Head coaching job in Washington when Dan fired Norv... Plus he has stated he likes being a DC better than an HC. Robiskie was given a chance and was unable to rally the troups (not totally his fault). Tice inherited (sp) the job when Green quit/was fired. Del Rio is technically a minority. Don't know enough about Cottrell as far as his qualifications or why he wasn't hired. Art Shell I believe deserves another chance. I won't say there is no disparity in HC or FO jobs... that would just be stupid. I do not however buy into the whole white owners don't want black coaches bit either. I wouldn't be surprised if some are racist. But I doubt the 29 owners who have white/other than black HC's on their team can't all be bigots and racists. Why the heck Dennis Erickson was hired back is beyond me... That owner/ownership group may be racist or just plain stupid. The lack of minority coaches is something that should be monitored and dealt with if shown that the choice of coach was not the best fit/hire, but rather a hire based on skin color. All things being equal the best man should be hired regardless of skin color. I hope more minority coaches get the shot to be HC of NFL teams and that they do well. I think it is best for football and sports in general to have the best man for the job at the helm. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Hey Bigchuck.... where the heck did you find that Coles picture? Can you give me a link? Or email me the full size pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Funny how his 13 mil signing bonus has disappered from conversations. Great observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDALERT Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Fellas, if you don't think that some owners would rather have a caucasian coaching his organization opposed to a Afro American. than most of you are seeing things with blinders on. It's the same way in the college ranks in hiring black coaches. Yes! alot of it still has to do with the "one of the good ole' boys syndrome) still instilled in alot of the older owners mind. Regardless of the most qualified issue. Lots of the minority coaches that are coordinators do get looked over for less qualified caucasian coaches or coordinators. One major factor here that also plays a major factor is opportunity. Most of the minority coaches are not in the coaches pool of coaches. So when the time comes around to pick outta the pool, they're not considered one of the "Good ole' boys(coaches) in the coaches pool. For Instance the hiring of black coaches on the college ranks. Outta all the major Universities, you can count on your fingers the number of black coaches coaching them. Regardless that a majority of the key players are minorities. So if a NFL owner (Snyder) for example wanted to go to the college ranks to hire a coach opposed to the "Good ole' NFL coaching pool". The college ranks is still flooded with caucasian coaches coaching major universities to hire levels with the majority of the star players being minorities. If you had a black coach coaching a major program such as the Florida Gators and most of the talent on that gator team is much better than some other programs they play against. What makes you think he couldn't do just as a good of a job as the caucasian coach. Any coach on that matter...but my point is that many black coaches don't get the opportunity to coach such programs and that's on the NFL level as well. So some points you made Om are valid, but opportunity is the key factor here and it's not given to black coaches as it is to caucasian coaches on both levels (NFL-NCAA). So what happens is the cycle continues until barriers are broken or the older owners start coming outta of they're old way of thinking. When the owners satrt seeing other teams winning or making progress or just giving a Black coache the chance to prove himself. Not saying that everyone has a chacne to prove themselves, but the black coaches still carry the stigma that most owners have instilled in their minds. (you make the call).. This seems to be what's starting to happen. Some owners are seeing other programs and professional team owners taking chances and giving black coaches a opportunity and things are working out okay. Without the old sterotype thinking getting into the minds of other owners or playing a major part of the decision making. So they take a chance... The same happen with the Redskins owner. Daniel Snyder is a younger owner that's not really hard core stuck on old traditions IMO. I don't think he has the "good ole' boy thinking. Yes! he was going to hire Rhodes and gave Terry Robiskie a chance. But he was still stuck on eventually getting Steve Spurrier to coach the team. But that's not my point, my point is below.. The Washington Redskins were the last NFL team to start signing and letting black players play with the Organization back in the day. But once they saw that other teams were winning and progressing with these black players and they realized they continued to lag behind. They had to start giving up on that "Good ole' boy type of thinking. But it took awhile and some teeth pulling before they finally did so. That's the same thing that's going on with hiring black coaches by many owners and NCAA chancellors and presidents. But things are slowly changing and will even more once some of the older troops relinquish the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 One ... it's caucasian. And Two ... REDALERT, we're not realy disagreeing, that I can tell. we're just coming at it from different directions. You're talking about your interpretation of the the history that led here, and I'm talking about the present and where I think the future is going. And we both agree where we're going is the direction we want to go. So I think I'm done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDALERT Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Om, didn't mean to hit a nerve or anything. I was just voicing my opion on the topic and conversation that was at hand. Calm down dude.....:40oz: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigchuck Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by Die Hard Hey Bigchuck.... where the heck did you find that Coles picture? Can you give me a link? Or email me the full size pic? Here ya go. Just did a google search and boom. Heres the link www.angelfire.com/extreme4/dannys_site/images/lcoles.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratoman Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by bigchuck Man ive been wondering the same thing about Art. maybe he doesn't want to be a head coach, he!! why isn't denny green a head coach some where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by REDALERT Om, didn't mean to hit a nerve or anything. I was just voicing my opion on the topic and conversation that was at hand. Calm down dude.....:40oz: Dude, next to "calm" in the dictionary there's a picture of me. I'm scratching my head over how what I wrote somehow struck you otherwise. And I ain't had a drink all night. My bad on that. We're cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDALERT Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Go skins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Originally posted by stratoman maybe he doesn't want to be a head coach, he!! why isn't denny green a head coach some where? Extremely valid point. Has anyone ever actually heard or read that Art Shell wants to coach again? He coached under Reeves and disappeared. Maybe on his own accord..... Denny Green apparently loves to flyfish and play drums in his jazz band. He's actually damn good from what I have heard. Seems as if he's enjoying life away from the NFL. Someone mentioned Ray Rhodes. Few other guys are out there showing promise. But hey, maybe at the same time we don't hear enough about them. There are many sides to this. Believe me I have heard them. Maybe if Willingham gets his players at Notre Dame and has a few good seasons, it's off to San Fran for him after that, or maybe, he decides to stay in South Bend or retire and spend time with his family after suceeding in one of the highest pulpits of NCAA coaching!!!!!!!! I don't deny that there are questionable factors in hiring NFL coaches, but there is a reason minorities have that title. They are fewer in numbers. Therefore less of them to choose from. So it's really too easy of a topic to make a big stink about...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Didn't Art Shell play a prominant role in the players union? If so, his negotiations, stances, and rhetoric could have tainted his relationship with the owners. Notre Dame's hiring of Willingham was a huge step forward for minority hiring. It is the most visible coaching position in NCAA football. I want to see him do well....but I hate Notre Dame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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