More Republican Congressmen Face Town Hall Backlash Over Tax Breaks For Wealthy And Medicare Privatization

[Mad Mike]

asking nothing from the richest......we did away with progressive taxes while I slept?

Cut the bull****. You know damned well what I'm saying and there is nothing funny about it.

[Baculus]

As I said in another thread... to cut medicaid, medicare... To ask the poorest people in the country to sacrifice their health to cut the national debt while asking nothing from the richest is beyond deplorable. It's ******** EVIL.

That is all.

Post of the thread.

Totally. It's terrible.

[twa]

Cut the bull****. You know damned well what I'm saying and there is nothing funny about it.

I disagree and think you ignore reality....it does sound pretty though

[Mad Mike]

I disagree and think you ignore reality....it does sound pretty though

Please. By all means. Explain your "reality". Feel free to get help from Lombardi's_kid_brother.

[DRSmith]

I disagree and think you ignore reality....it does sound pretty though

You mean the reality of asking more from those who can not afford it while cutting taxes even more on the rich even though with taxes on the rich being historically low you still have high unemployment.

[twa]

Please. By all means. Explain your "reality". Feel free to get help from Lombardi's_kid_brother.

Main objection is the assertion of asking nothing from the rich who already contribute plenty

next would be classifying the cuts from health reform or the Ryan plan as evil and sacrificing the poor's health.

The poor here are relatively blessed and do more sacrificing of their health with their own choices in life.

My reality is there are limits to ones responsibility to others by govt fiat and plenty of funds available if you eliminate waste and fraud.

The tax the rich crowd simply enables more inefficiency (and no I am not rich)

added

a note on Twists chart....try to deduct the govt benefits received by the bottom half which includes SS,medicare,SCHIP ect ect to get a truer picture

as well as the death taxes the rich pay(the foolish ones)

[DRSmith]

Main objection is the assertion of asking nothing from the rich who already contribute plenty

next would be classifying the cuts from health reform or the Ryan plan as evil and sacrificing the poor's health.

The poor here are relatively blessed and do more sacrificing of their health with their own choices in life.

My reality is there are limits to ones responsibility to others by govt fiat and plenty of funds available if you eliminate waste and fraud.

The tax the rich crowd simply enables more inefficiency (and no I am not rich)

added

a note on Twists chart....try to deduct the govt benefits received by the bottom half which includes SS,medicare,SCHIP ect ect to get a truer picture

as well as the death taxes the rich pay(the foolish ones)

Yeah those suckers who made the lifestyle choice to get old, if those programs could be ended it would not longer anable those people who choose to get old.

As for those people who made the poor life choice of losing their job due to Wall Street collapse well those people just deserve to be crapped on.

So those people who actually spend their money they recieve and create demand and with it jobs so take a back street those people are who are do more damage to the economy by outsourcing jobs over seas, getting bonuses for getting bail out money (funny how no one on the right or on talk radio talks about the massive redistrubution of wealth that has happened from the middle and lower class to the upper class)

[twa]

Ah still leaving out ending 'as we know it'....which is happening regardless under health reform

I'll take freedom to choose which ins over a appointed panel of experts deciding for me any day

where is the truth?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/20/democratic-congressional-campaign-committee/democrats-say-republicans-voted-end-medicare-and-c/

[Mad Mike]

Main objection is the assertion of asking nothing from the rich who already contribute plenty

next would be classifying the cuts from health reform or the Ryan plan as evil and sacrificing the poor's health.

The poor here are relatively blessed and do more sacrificing of their health with their own choices in life.

My reality is there are limits to ones responsibility to others by govt fiat and plenty of funds available if you eliminate waste and fraud.

The tax the rich crowd simply enables more inefficiency (and no I am not rich)

added

a note on Twists chart....try to deduct the govt benefits received by the bottom half which includes SS,medicare,SCHIP ect ect to get a truer picture

as well as the death taxes the rich pay(the foolish ones)

Reality is: The rich were and are the continued beneficiaries of the Bush tax breaks. The poor survive hand to mouth, $100 a month can mean the difference between starving and eating. That's the situation people live in BEFORE this deficit crisis. Now some POS comes along and tells the poorest people in the nation they have to sacrifice basic medical care to cut the national deficit. But the richest and most capable of helping to reduce the deficit are not asked to contribute anything more even though it would not impact their lifestyle one iota. Yeah. That makes perfect sense... to a satanist.

Everyone on this board should by now know of my obsession with cars. Ferrari, Lambos, Porsche.... I dream of having a stable of exotics like so many of the ultra wealthy have. I may envy them but I don't resent them for it. More power to them. But here's the reality as told by a wealthy collector of cars... These wealthy car collectors will spend 1 million plus on a Veyron. Up to 5 or more million on rare collector cars. And they do it because they can without the slightest impact on their life. They will not skip a vacation, live in a smaller house, give up their yacht... they can do it and give up nothing. Again... more power to them. But the fact is that they can do it because they are the beneficiaries of the American dream. So don't act like they get nothing in return for the taxes they pay. And don't act like pitching in a little more during a "national crisis" is going to be a burden on them.

Bottom line. If you think it's unfair for the richest two percent to pitch in a little more in a what you yourself consider a crisis, while asking the poorest to accept less of what is already minimal health care, I'm forced to question your sanity, intelligence, and moral compass. Here's the book for you.

BTW here's a quote from the article you posted above:

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) analyzed Ryan’s proposal and found that it will save the government money. But it does so by asking future Medicare beneficiaries to pay more for insurance.

"A private health insurance plan covering the standardized benefit would, CBO estimates, be more expensive currently than traditional Medicare. Both administrative costs (including profits) and payment rates to providers are higher for private plans than for Medicare," the CBO concluded.

[twa]

MM when I see the poor smoking, drinking,doing drugs and fat as sows your pleas ring a bit false.

funny that Ryans plan gives the poor more than they have at the present and reduces benefits to the wealthy.

I have no problem with raising taxes,but not just to piss away

[Mad Mike]

MM when I see the poor smoking, drinking,doing drugs and fat as sows your pleas ring a bit false.

funny that Ryans plan gives the poor more than they have at the present and reduces benefits to the wealthy.

I have no problem with raising taxes,but not just to piss away

Seriously. Every time you open your mouth I like you less.

The poor are all drunks and drug users? Really. That's your argument? And to suggest that the Ryan plan gives more to the poor than they have right now is a flat out LIE. I just showed you a quote from your own source that proves it.

Dude. You are un ••••••• believable. :doh:

[twa]

Seriously. Every time you open your mouth I like you less.

The poor are all drunks and drug users? Really. That's your argument? And to suggest that the Ryan plan gives more to the poor than they have right now is a flat out LIE. I just showed you a quote from your own source that proves it.

Dude. You are un ••••••• believable. :doh:

You are not moving up on my scale either

the CBO left out the 7K+ MSA for the poor that is in the bill in their calculations....as I already mentioned

perhaps you should read more and assume less?

[twist]

a note on Twists chart....try to deduct the govt benefits received by the bottom half which includes SS,medicare,SCHIP ect ect to get a truer picture

as well as the death taxes the rich pay(the foolish ones)

Way to move the goalposts, we were talking about progressive taxation and now were talking about benefits received by the government.

The chart is of total taxation which includes estate taxes.

How would we quantify benefits received by the government? The wealthy often benefit a great deal more from there being a government and it is by no means linear with income.

A man with a trucking company will benefit a great deal more from there being roads that I would for instance.

But forget all that and answer the following: What does it gain any of us regular people to tax capitol gains at a considerably lower rate than an average personal income and what does it gain us to cut taxes on the top brackets of income and make up the difference by slashing Medicare?

[twa]

But forget all that and answer the following: What does it gain any of us regular people to tax capitol gains at a considerably lower rate than an average personal income and what does it gain us to cut taxes on the top brackets of income and make up the difference by slashing Medicare?

Why should you gain more?

I don't feel entitled to others money,and the poor pay no income tax(most working poor even get a tax bonus)

Even Obama says there are billions of waste in medicare

[DRSmith]

Ah still leaving out ending 'as we know it'....which is happening regardless under health reform

I'll take freedom to choose which ins over a appointed panel of experts deciding for me any day

where is the truth?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/20/democratic-congressional-campaign-committee/democrats-say-republicans-voted-end-medicare-and-c/

Yes as you get older see how much choice you have and the decision is the insurance companies to pay or not

[twist]

Why should you gain more?

Generally everyone gains when the average person succeeds, where as, when only the exceptional person succeeds, most people fail.

I don't feel entitled to others money,and the poor pay no income tax(most working poor even get a tax bonus)

I already discussed total tax burden which is differn't than federal income taxes.

Even Obama says there are billions of waste in medicare

So we should wish to switch to a more wasteful and less efficient system like the Ryan plan?

[Baculus]

Why should you gain more?

I don't feel entitled to others money,and the poor pay no income tax(most working poor even get a tax bonus)

Even Obama says there are billions of waste in medicare

Yes, that is a problem -- people ripping off Medicare, which is why such abuses need to be regulated. As a note, the usual suspect for such fraud are private companies . . . the "free market" championed by Republicans.

Unlike "ObamaCare," the PPACA, I see little evidence that the Ryan budget attempts to combat such fraud. The Republicans always talk about "tort reform," but when it comes to combating Medicare waste, they suddenly claim that such regulations will prove to be "ornery," or comparing comparative-effectiveness reviews as "death panels."

---------- Post added April-28th-2011 at 12:05 AM ----------

MM when I see the poor smoking, drinking,doing drugs and fat as sows your pleas ring a bit false.

funny that Ryans plan gives the poor more than they have at the present and reduces benefits to the wealthy.

I have no problem with raising taxes,but not just to piss away

What a cliched, ignorant position to assume. You sound like a junior Rush Limbaugh; "little Rush" seems like a good nickname.

[DRSmith]

What a cliched, ignorant position to assume. You sound like a junior Rush Limbaugh; "little Rush" seems like a good nickname.

I think dittoheads is good as as they seem to do repeat whatever talk radio tells them is the truth after they get their speaking points the whatever right wing special interest group has given to speak about

[twa]

Generally everyone gains when the average person succeeds, where as, when only the exceptional person succeeds, most people fail.

So we should wish to switch to a more wasteful and less efficient system like the Ryan plan?

The average person succeeding is dependent on taking more from others?....I think you are looking in the wrong place for success or define it differently than I.

Is the Ryan plan more wasteful and inefficient?....convince me,the incomplete CBO report is less than so.

[DRSmith]

The average person succeeding is dependent on taking more from others?....I think you are looking in the wrong place for success or define it differently than I.

Is the Ryan plan more wasteful and inefficient?....convince me,the incomplete CBO report is less than so.

A good strong social sefety net with good regulation allows people to succeed, trickle down has been a complete failure

[twa]

Let me know when we get one, we encourage waste and inefficiency rather than success

[DRSmith]

Let me know when we get one, we encourage waste and inefficiency rather than success

Maybe instead of demonizing the public sector in effort to make those in private sector richer off government contracts the right could see to fix the puvblic safety net without advocating giving everything to the private sector

[Larry]

or comparing comparative-effectiveness reviews as "death panels."

Actually I remember reading a news article about some study that had just been published, that looked at several common medical procedures. (The one I remember was coronary bypass surgery.)

They looked at a bunch of people who had been recommended for bypass surgery (and the other procedures). And divided their sample into those who had the procedure, and those who declined the procedure. And compared the two groups' survival rates. (I think the study went like four years.)

And what they discovered was that the people who had the procedures had roughly the same survival rates as the people who declined the procedure.

Now, they mentioned that the ones that died, didn't always die from the same thing that the procedure was supposed to fix. That in some cases, the procedure fixed condition X, but then the patient died from condition Y, two years later.

One thing that particularly stuck in my head: Of the people who had coronary bypass surgery, and then they died, anyway? Half of them died from an infection they got while they were in the hospital.

Still, to me, it's an interesting question: If people who have coronary bypass, don't live any longer than people who don't have it, . . .

[twist]

The average person succeeding is dependent on taking more from others?....I think you are looking in the wrong place for success or define it differently than I.

Not really, you advocate a system that funnels all the resources to a select few who already control most of them at the expense of everyone else.

The government acts towards this end just as it would act toward mine.

I advocate a system where by the risks and benefits of being in a society are shared more equally by all.

Is the Ryan plan more wasteful and inefficient?....convince me,the incomplete CBO report is less than so.

Private insurance/medicine is much more inefficient and wasteful if you go back and read my first post in this thread, we waste almost 600-800 billion in this country to get worse overall health results.

You want to dump Medicare spending into that same private sector and we would see the exact same thing happen there.

More cost for everyone, especially seniors and worse overall health.

As I said before we could have Medicare for EVERYONE with more overall benefits for less overall government expenditure (and we could do it while cutting taxes) but no one is willing to do that because it's SOOOO inefficient, and people like you who like it when people are given a massively bad deal for the sake of subsidizing the medical profession would have an aneurism.

[twa]

Still, to me, it's an interesting question: If people who have coronary bypass, don't live any longer than people who don't have it, . . .

Quality of life matters though

my father refused a heart transplant and lived 10 yrs before keeling over (I think he made a good choice)

my wife has had 7 bypasses and other major surgeries (I think she made the right choices)

I need new knees(it ain't happening till I can't function)

depends on what you want and need out of life and can deal with.