The 2011 Draft: Middle to Late round QBs

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Bradfrod and Skeleton? Really?

[darrelgreenie]

Dalton, Ponder and Kaep under the radar QB according to Solomon Wilcotts:

(although I don't think Ponder counts as under the radar)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81e989b7/QBs-under-the-radar?module=HP_video

[darrelgreenie]

Kiper believes Mike Shanahan would be attracted to is TCU's Andy Dalton, whom Kiper expects to go early in the second round, anywhere from 33rd to 45th overall. Washington's second pick is 41st overall. As a senior, Dalton passed for 2,857 yards, 27 touchdowns, eight interceptions and was sacked eight times

Dalton "didn't throw many picks; he wasn't sacked much at TCU," Kiper said. "He was outstanding against the top ranked teams, about 70 percent. He was effective on third down. He gives you mobility, and that's what you need in that offense: to be able to throw on the run and with anticipation. I know he doesn't have a great arm or the great height (6-3). He's not 6-4, 6-5, and not the size of a [Ryan] Mallett or a Newton. But I certainly think he fit Mike Shanahan's offense as good as anybody."

[darrelgreenie]

Quarterback Andy Dalton during TCU's workout.

—

As I mentioned before, there were a number of high-profile attendees at Texas Christian workout on Friday, including 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh, and none of them could have been disappointed with the display of QB Andy Dalton.

Twenty players worked out at TCU’s new indoor facility, but Dalton was the star of the show. Dalton really lit it up in front of a crowd that included Harbaugh, Jaguars offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter and new Bengals offensive coordinator Jay Gruden. In all, there were 46 people from 26 teams in attendance.

Dalton made 50 passes and there was not a single uncatchable ball. He really made quite a showing for himself, and he likely will be a second-round pick now.

Dalton stayed on all of his combine numbers, and measured 6-foot-2 ¼, and 210 pounds. He is athletic and throws with great velocity. In addition to the great workout, it’s important to note that Dalton has been a winner, only losing three games during his college career to Oklahoma, Utah (the year the Utes beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl), and against Boise State in the 2010 Fiesta Bowl.

[Campbell's_da_man]

I don't believe any QB this year is worthy of our 10th pick, but I like Ponder with our 2nd round (41st) because he is more NFL ready now than the others, and he fits nicely within Shanny's system. As far as late round picks, I love the mobility and arm strength of Kaepernick, but he will need development for a year or two. If he is sitting there in the fifth round, he is a steal, and I also like Stanzi here as well. Dalton was more of a runner than passer, so I think defenses were more willing to give him the pass, which could have padded his numbers.

[darrelgreenie]

I love the mobility and arm strength of Kaepernick' date=' but he will need development for a year or two. If he is sitting there in the fifth round, he is a steal, and I also like Stanzi here as well. Dalton was more of a runner than passer, so I think defenses were more willing to give him the pass, which could have padded his numbers.[/quote']

You realize that Kaepernick ran far more often Dalton?

What you're saying about Dalton is far more true of Kaepernick.

Dalton's running wasn't a threat that teams tried to stop.

If anything 'pads' Dalton stats its playing in a spread offense behind a great OL.

[darrelgreenie]

A late, late round possible UDFA QB prospect that the Redskins spoke to at the East-West Shrine Game:

Quarterback Jerrod Johnson, who stood on his combine numbers, impressed during a positional workout run by Texans QB coach Greg Knapp.

Former Texas A&M quarterback Jerrod Johnson and his personal teacher said they believe Johnson answered questions about his arm strength during the Aggies' annual NFL pro day workouts Wednesday.

Johnson did not fully recover from shoulder surgery and lost his job as A&M's starter last season. On Wednesday, he earned a good review from a significant person from outside his camp, Houston Texans quarterbacks coach Greg Knapp.

"He has plenty of arm strength to make all the throws," Knapp said after watching Johnson in passing drills inside the McFerrin Athletic Center.

Johnson also worked out at the combine, but the 6-5, 248-pounder came into A&M's pro day with much to prove.

"A lot of people had questions about my arm strength," Johnson said. "I had to show that my arm is back where it was. I think I definitely showed that today with some of my deeper throws and intermediate routes. I put good zip on the ball. I'm back to the guy that I've always been."

Johnson has been working out in Nashville under the tutelage of quarterbacks guru Zeke Bratkowski, who played and coached in the NFL.

"If they came just to see [Johnson's arm strength], they saw probably an A-plus performance, plus accuracy," Bratkowski said. "His ball was really tight. He threw some beautiful long passes from a lot of different foot positions and angles."

A couple of Johnson's long throws wobbled early in his session of about 50 passes. The scouts judged one throw to be off-target and one pass was dropped.

Johnson said he has been told that he could be selected late in the six-round draft or be signed as a free agent.

"It all just comes down to getting an opportunity," Johnson said. "I think I know the game as good as anybody."

Similarities between offenses run by A&M and the Texans were one reason Texans head coach Gary Kubiak sent Knapp to see Johnson throw and watch video with him".Coach Kubiak felt like there is smaller learning curve for Jerrod to learn our offense than maybe other quarterbacks," Knapp said.

Bratkowski said football intelligence is one of Johnson's best assets.

"That's such a big thing now," Bratkowski said. "If you can't decipher all the things that you're going to see and be able to make adjustments and those things, you are really working at a deficit."

http://www.aggiesports.com/football/Aggie-QB-has-solid-performance-at-NFL-pro-day

I wonder if the similarities between the Texas A&M's offense and the Houston's offense are the same reasons why the Skins had interest? Hmm.

[darrelgreenie]

Virginia Tech quarterback Tyrod Taylor is scheduled to visit the Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins and the Jacksonville Jaguars, according to an NFL source with knowledge of the situation.

Taylor is also slated to conduct a private workout for the New Orleans Saints on March 28 and the Miami Dolphins on March 30.

Taylor had breakfast with the San Diego Chargers before his Pro Day workout earlier this week and had an afternoon meeting with the Dolphins.

He's regarded as a third to fifth-round draft target for NFL teams and is being evaluated as a quarterback. Taylor does offer positional versatility, but is expected to play quarterback primarily.

"It's hard to pass on a guy's athleticism like that," a source said. "People are excited about him."

Taylor had an accurate throwing session at the NFL scouting combine, and the 6-foot-1, 217-pounder ran the 40-yard dash in 4.47 seconds and posted a 37 1/2 inch vertical leap, 10-06 broad jump and a 6.78 three-cone drill.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-source-Tyrod-Taylor-to-visit-Eagles-Redskins-Jaguars-to-work-out-for-Dolphins-Saints.html

---------- Post added March-20th-2011 at 12:21 AM ----------

Fifteen NFL teams went to the University of Delaware this week to work out quarterback Pat Devlin as well as defensive backs Anthony Walters and Anthony Bratton.............Devlin's Pro Day was attended by Cincinnati Bengals quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese and New York Jets assistant coach Matt Cavanaugh.

A Penn State transfer, Devlin is projected as a middle-round draft target.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Strong-workout-for-Delaware-defensive-backs-Pat-Devlin.html

---------- Post added March-20th-2011 at 12:24 AM ----------

University of California (PA) QB Josh Portis went 30-for-32 in passing drills during Pittsburgh's Pro Day Tuesday, March 15, according to NFL Draft Bible's Bo Marchionte.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=699962-nfl-josh-portis-takes-part-in-pro-day#ixzz1H6uPAG8V

The Miami Dolphins have scheduled a private workout with California (Pa.) quarterback Josh Portis for Tuesday, March 22, according to his agent's twitter account.

[Skins Talk]

Dalton, Ponder and Kaep under the radar QB according to Solomon Wilcotts:

(although I don't think Ponder counts as under the radar)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81e989b7/QBs-under-the-radar?module=HP_video

Yeah considering he was a touted as a high 1st rounder by a lot of people last year. Pretty safe under the radar pick.

DG what do you think about Ponder? I can't say I get too excited about him.

[darrelgreenie]

Yeah considering he was a touted as a high 1st rounder by a lot of people last year. Pretty safe under the radar pick.

DG what do you think about Ponder? I can't say I get too excited about him.

Here's my thoughts on Ponder from before, I haven't changed my opinion of him that much because his pro day confirmed my previous opinions on him:

-Although I like Ponder I think the 2nd round is kinda high for my taste.

I put him in the same tier as Stanzi and consider both to QBs that could run Kyle's offense but could be had in the 3rd if of course we had a pick.

My reasoning on Ponder/Stanzi:

I'm fairly rigid once I make my assessments of QBs so for me I a 2nd tier (Stanzi, Dalton, Ponder) prospect can't leapfrog and become or bypass a 1st tier prospect.

In the 1st tier I have QBs that have unique physical skills that give them a leg up in the league chiefly ability to throw the football and playmaking ability.

In my eyes you either have those or you don't, not having them doesn't preclude the other prospects form being successful NFL QBs but imo those premium physical abilities are what separates the 1st tier of QBs.

Here's my view of Ponder / Stanzi:

While Ponder's isn't a great athlete he's a better one then people realize (better then Stanzi imo) and I suspect has a better arm then people think.

*For some reason especially around draft time people start talking about elite arm strength as if its the average in the NFL but its not.

There are plenty of good QBs w/ average arm strength; hence the term average but I digress.

I think Ponder has adequate NFL arm strength at least as much as Colt McCoy.

He has good size.

He's a senior in an pro-style offense those 2 traits are bug pluses for him.

As a senior he should be more of leader, playing in a pro-style offense he has experience doing some pre-snap reads and following progressions from under center while executing 3-5-7 step drops.

Ponder's footwork is clean and light, he has a solid consistent throwing motion.

He's been well protected and has experince getting to his 2nd and 3rd progressions.

But.

He has those injury concerns w/ his shoulder.

Despite being a 4 year player in a pro-style offense doesn't have bigtime production or efficieny numbers.(compared to Locker w/ only 2 years in a pro-style offense w/ limited talent the efficeincy numbers aren't significanlty different imo)

Stanzi shares the same traits I mentioned as positives for Ponder.

But, imo Stanzi has classic over the top throwing motion w/ the bigger arm then Ponder and proto-typical size w/o injury concerns.

Early in this draft thread I had to remind my boy Steve that 'pick 6 rick' was up there w/ everyone's darling Andrew Luck from an efficiency stand point.

And although Stanzi is also well protected he wasn't given the Fort Knox type protection afforded to Andrew Luck.

Although the great american isn't a great athlete he moves around pretty good and can throw on the run.

The main thing keeping him from the top tier QB in my eyes is lack of elite arm strength and limited playmaking ability.

But seems like a post 2nd round-mid-round QB that can come in and execute your offense w/ efficiency maybe even as rookie (ala Kyle Orton).

Neither here nor there but his over the top throwing motion and size and number remind of Brady (note I'm not saying he's the next Brady).

[The Tris]

Jerrod Johnson would be worth bringing in as an UDFA, and nothing more. Has there ever been a successful NFL QB that was benched his senior year and the team's offense just took off afterwards?

I think there are two elite QB prospects, and then there is a tier of about six QBs that I would consider the "middle" group, and then there are late round/UDFA guys.

Gabbert

Newton

_____________

Ponder

Dalton

Kapaernick

Locker

Stanzi

Mallett

____________

McElroy

Devlin

Tolzien

Enderle

Weber

Potts

Portis

Of that second tier, I think at least two will go in the first round. I also think that if we are interested in one of those guys - be it Locker or Ponder or even Kapaernick, we are going to need to either trade down into the 20s from 10, or trade up from 41. The only guy I am confident will be there at 41 is Stanzi.

I wouldn't take anyone from the "late" group before our 5th round pick.

[Skins Talk]

Jerrod Johnson would be worth bringing in as an UDFA, and nothing more. Has there ever been a successful NFL QB that was benched his senior year and the team's offense just took off afterwards?

I think there are two elite QB prospects, and then there is a tier of about six QBs that I would consider the "middle" group, and then there are late round/UDFA guys.

Gabbert

Newton

_____________

Ponder

Dalton

Kapaernick

Locker

Stanzi

Mallett

____________

McElroy

Devlin

Tolzien

Enderle

Weber

Potts

Portis

Of that second tier, I think at least two will go in the first round. I also think that if we are interested in one of those guys - be it Locker or Ponder or even Kapaernick, we are going to need to either trade down into the 20s from 10, or trade up from 41. The only guy I am confident will be there at 41 is Stanzi.

I wouldn't take anyone from the "late" group before our 5th round pick.

You have Mallett below Stanzi? I don't like the guy, but I think he's better than Locker, Stanzi, Kaepernick and Dalton.

[The Tris]

You have Mallett below Stanzi? I don't like the guy, but I think he's better than Locker, Stanzi, Kaepernick and Dalton.

Specifically for our offense, and because of his character concerns (which based on what I have read for 2 years, are real, not manufactured), I think Mallett is a player we should not target unless he has a huge fall. I put him at the end of the 2nd tier because of his undeniable physical abilities as a pocket passer. But I do not think he has as good a chance of becoming an elite passer as the other 5.

I think Mallett has the best arm in this draft class. Unfortunately, that is but a single conponent of what makes an elite QB.

[ouvan59]

McElroy because he has always won.

There is something about QB's that win consistently that can't be judged by a stop watch or video.

Do you mean like Danny Wuerffel?

[Newera]

Mallet is either going to be really good. Or a bust. No in between with him. My sneaky suspicion is "Good."

[The Tris]

Mallet is either going to be really good. Or a bust. No in between with him. My sneaky suspicion is "Good."

I think a logical case can be made for both extremes. I happen to be on the other side.

Why do you think he will pan out? Who do you think is a comparable QB to him in today's NFL? Many have referenced Drew Bledsoe when discussing Mallett - do you think Bledsoe would be an effective QB in today's NFL?

[BayouBrave86]

We need Gabbert or Cam. Ryan M. is going to be a bust.

[marauder22]

If I remember correctly, the first game McElroy ever lost was this year, going back to Junior High. There is just something about that to me.

I like his accuracy. Nothing else is that great. He is no Tom Brady, but I agree with ASF that McElroy could be a great sleeper pick.

McElroy only started one year in H.S.(His senior season).

[darrelgreenie]

Jerrod Johnson would be worth bringing in as an UDFA, and nothing more.

Jerrod Johnson is very interesting prospect in my eyes because prior to his shoulder injury he was one of the best QBs in college football and he has the aforementioned familiarity with the Houston Texans offense which gives him a familiarity with Kyle's offense. (from post #82)

Similarities between offenses run by A&M and the Texans were one reason Texans head coach Gary Kubiak sent Knapp to see Johnson throw and watch video with him".Coach Kubiak felt like there is smaller learning curve for Jerrod to learn our offense than maybe other quarterbacks," Knapp said.

His junior year:

59.6%

30 TDs

8 INTs

Its a long video but even if you skim through it you can see: his playmaking and arm strength but you can see the ball going where he it needs to you can also see he drops the ball down slightly before he brings it up towards his ear to throw.

If Jerrod Johnson was never injured what type of prospect would he have been?

The medical is a huge issue for Johnson and if the shoulder checks out Johnson could be a mid-round value that's available late in the draft if not via UDFA.

(Kyle Orton- and IIRC his benching wasn't injury related)

[The Tris]

if the shoulder checks out Johnson could be a mid-round value that's available late in the draft if not via UDFA.

The problem is, the shoulder is not checking out, and he has not recovered any of his arm strength. He was the weakest armed QB at the E/W Shrine Game - which is a big deal when you are 6-6 250.

We are now 2 days from the one year anniversary of his surgery, with little noticable progress - not a good sign.

[darrelgreenie]

The problem is, the shoulder is not checking out, and he has not recovered any of his arm strength. He was the weakest armed QB at the E/W Shrine Game - which is a big deal when you are 6-6 250.

We are now 2 days from the one year anniversary of his surgery, with little noticable progress - not a good sign.

The most recent reports I've seen are from his pro-day where the reports were basically opposite of what you're saying, you can just scroll up to read it.

So If you have other info I'm happy to see it.

If you bring him in and his shoulder doesn't get any better then you've lost a 6th-7th or an UDFA slot, big deal.

If you bring him in and his shoulder is 100% healed or healing sufficiently to become 100% then you get a QB with as much talent as QBs taken much higher in the draft.

[darrelgreenie]

Iowa QB Ricky Stanzi also did himself some good Monday with a workout that was superior to his performance at the NFL Scouting Combine. Stanzi (6-4 1/8, 224) ran 4.93 twice in the 40, had a 34-inch vertical, a 9-7 broad jump, and ran 4.56 and 7.23 in the short shuttle and 3-cone drill, respectively, to go with 16 bench-press reps. He definitely helped his stock, which is good since he had an audience of QB coaches that included Carolina and Baltimore.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/03/21/clayborn-stanzi-improve-stock-at-iowa-pro-day/

[The Tris]

The most recent reports I've seen are from his pro-day where the reports were basically opposite of what you're saying, you can just scroll up to read it.

I hadn't seen anything from his pro day. I would be surprising for him to have a miraculous recover in the time between the E/W Shrine Game where he was pretty bad (Jan 22nd) to his pro day (Mar 10th)

....Ok, I went and looked for some stuff, and the best I could find was from a TAMU fan site:

Johnson seems to have regained his 2009 season form, hitting receivers in stride on deep routes. He still struggles at times with his short and intermediate range accuracy, but there's no doubt he possesses the requisite arm strength to play ball at the next level. His footwork looked particularly improved, throwing bullets to his wideouts while rolling out to either side.

Pretty stark difference in just over six weeks from:

For a QB who is 6-6 and 250 pounds, Johnson has a surprisingly below-average arm. This was apparent from Day 1. His ball doesn't have a lot of zip or pop and falls apart in the air. He made poor decisions when improvising on the run, which resulted in bad throws and picks. This was something we saw on film as well and that's not a good trend. His struggles in decision making, his poor arm and his struggles as a game manager mean he's likely a free-agent prospect.

He easily had the least zip on his throws of any of the quarterbacks in attendance, and when that includes an option quarterback like Navy's Ricky Dobbs, that's a bad sign. You hate to see it because Johnson's a quarterback who's done basically everything you could ask as a coach, but he's just not the same quarterback. He finished 6-of-12 for 54 yards, but he had a pair of turnovers. His interception was essentially a duck, caught by Iowa State's David Sims. His accuracy was there on most throws, but when it takes a half second or so longer to get there compared to the rest of the quarterbacks in attendance, that's a problem.

Again - nice little project UDFA, no denying the chance at some upside, but I wouldn't spend a pick on him.

[darrelgreenie]

I hadn't seen anything from his pro day. I would be surprising for him to have a miraculous recover in the time between the E/W Shrine Game where he was pretty bad (Jan 22nd) to his pro day (Mar 10th.............................................Again - nice little project UDFA, no denying the chance at some upside, but I wouldn't spend a pick on him.

My mistake I thought you read Post #82 which was from Texas A&M's pro-day.

The combo of Johnson's returning arm strength and knowledge of Kyle's system make's him an intriguing prospect.

Did you watch the clip; if so what do you think of his throwing motion?

[Diesel__44]

Everybody wants to find the next Tom Brady but it ain't happening. It's just not going to happen, sorry.