Who has visited a Doctor of Osteopathy (D.O.)?

[PeterMP]

Keep doing what you're doing... you can't treat people who don't want to be treated. That's what I've learned from my years to treatment and study.

Hey, I agree. I've said in more than one alt. medicine thread, if what you are doing for you is working keep doing it (though I would go to a regular doctor and double check), but for something like pain management if osteopathy or accupuncture is working for you, then that's great.

My dad is knee pain from an injury in a car accident and he goes to accpuncturist, and when I see him, I ask how it is going, and then he tells me how it good it is, and I say that's great.

[Die Hard]

Osteopathy isn't for "pain management" (ie. symptomatic). If you don't understand that... then I'm sorry, you simply don't understand osteopathy.

Osteopathy was originally used to treat mental and pathological disorders. It wasn't until recently that most people back to use it for simple mechanical reasons for "back/neck" pain. But it's scope goes well beyond that.

[Bonez3]

I'm an MD, and work with a few DO's. I think there are great MDs and lousy MDs, and there are great DOs and lousy DOs. I think it is silly to generalize much about either. The quality of the person means more than the letters after the name.

Well put bcl... I know your a doc, I see your posts in a few other med threads.

I'm a DO, Internal Med, so I think you and I have some of the best insight. I'll simply echo exatly what you said. I trained directly next to MD students in med school rotations and in my residency. The profession is like mostothers, the more you put in the better you likely are.

It's true that DO schools have 'slightly' lesser MCAT scores than MD applicants, but usually just the cut below and their GPA's are prolly extremely competitive. Don't be mislead by others. My classes avg GPA in the sciences was astronomical. Further, MD schools will allow non-American trained students to matriculatre into their schools, so the 'top scores' philosophy is just not 100% accurate....anyway, finding a good 'doc' should not be based on the letters after the name.

An example that soemtimes you wouldn't know if you weree with an MD or DO was a 2006 Newsweek cover titled 'Hero MD', about a highly decorated military doc Richard Jaddick... In fact he is a DO

I love the scene in Good Will Hunting where he stated to the Harvard grad that for the cost of late fees and a library card he coulda got the same education. In US med schools, if you are motivated enough DO/MD you have no limits.

[Special K]

I thought the D.O. designation was for Orthopedic Surgeons... that's what mine is designated after his name.

I don't think so. My dad's an orthopedic surgeon, MD, and I've never seen nor heard of him using a D.O. acronym for orthopedics. I'm pretty sure it's exclusively for doctors of osteopathy.

Also, I'd like to echo bc105's statement that there are good MD's and lousy ones, just like with D.O.'s. Just because someone is a D.O. does not mean they are less able to care for the sick. And by the way, what's with all this massage talk? I've never met a D.O. who says s/he'll massage the sickness out of me. That seems to be a common misconception though.

[bcl05]

Something that may not be clear to the non-medical public is that the most important learning you get as a physician comes as a house officer during residency and fellowship (after medical school). DOs and MDs are eligible for the same residency programs. I am a residency program director (medical genetics), and have served on selection committees at a couple of fairly competitive institutions. DOs have a slight disadvantage compared to MDs for the most competitive training slots, but excellent candidates shine through wherever they may come from. When we consider applicants for our training program, we consider recommendations, personal statements, and academic potential far more than the place they got their degree from. I did my residency at the Mayo Clinic - a fairly competitive place to get into. The strongest person in my trainee class was a "foreign medical graduate" whose primary degree was a MBBS (they are often considered "second-tier" applicants for residencies). I'd trust her with my kids lives, no question. There were graduates there from Ivy league medical schools there with far less drive and ability.

I think residency/fellowship is far more important than medical school. There is far more variability in residency programs than in medical schools. All medical schools have to cover the same basic curriculum. The teaching styles vary, but most students have essentially the same foundation at graduation. The difference in the residency programs can be profound. The types of cases one sees at a high-level academic tertiary care institution are fundamentally different than what one might see at a small community hospital. When I consider physicians to care for me and my loved ones, I place vastly more emphasis on where they did their residency/fellowship training than where they went to medical school.

[PeterMP]

We should be clear. A DO in this country is not the same as an osteopath in most other countries. The comments in this thread are related to a DO in this country, which (in most cases) is not what DieHard is talking about when he talks about an osteopath.

If you go to an osteopath in most other countries, you are going to get a very different experience then what you'd get seeing most DOs here.

[Die Hard]

If you go to an osteopath in most other countries, you are going to get a very different experience then what you'd get seeing most DOs here.

There are some doctors that practice "classical" osteopathy in the United States -- that's why I wanted to judge people's experiences. There just isn't a very large delegation for the reasons I stated previously. Classical osteopathy is practiced just as the founding father (A.T. Still) did... with manual assessment and treatment.

It's ironic that in the birthplace of osteopathy (US), it's also the only place in the world that sold out to the medical community and osteopathy isn't practiced as it was originally developed.

[Bonez3]

There are some doctors that practice "classical" osteopathy in the United States -- that's why I wanted to judge people's experiences. There just isn't a very large delegation for the reasons I stated previously. Classical osteopathy is practiced just as the founding father (A.T. Still) did... with manual assessment and treatment.

It's ironic that in the birthplace of osteopathy (US), it's also the only place in the world that sold out to the medical community and osteopathy isn't practiced as it was originally developed.

You're right Die Hard, it is a shame that 'D.O's' sold out to the medical community. However, being an 'osteopathic' physician there just isn't the proper time involved to allow for the integration of the manipulation aspect to osteopathy. Our whole body, holistic outlook can be applied other ways, but to spend 20-30 mins in a typical office setting on OMM, not realistic. However, as mentioned, some DO's 'specialize' in OMM and base their practice solely on that. I've done rotations with a few and it's real good stuff.

[Die Hard]

You're right Die Hard, it is a shame that 'D.O's' sold out to the medical community. However, being an 'osteopathic' physician there just isn't the proper time involved to allow for the integration of the manipulation aspect to osteopathy. Our whole body, holistic outlook can be applied other ways, but to spend 20-30 mins in a typical office setting on OMM, not realistic. However, as mentioned, some DO's 'specialize' in OMM and base their practice solely on that. I've done rotations with a few and it's real good stuff.

Agreed (on most parts). I think it would be feasible to provide for the demand if more people entered the field.... but I also understand the drawbacks of the decision that I mentioned previously.

I'm always amused by this story. The Clinic/School Curriculum Director at our school is an actual D.O. that lives and practices in Delaware -- although he now has premernant residency in Canada for the ongoing business development of our school. He graduated from the Philadelphia College of Osteoapthic Medicine (PCOM) and eventually became part of their faculty. He has worked and studied alongside Lawrence Jones, D.O. (Strain-Counter Strain) and Frank Mitchell Sr, D.O. (Muscle Energy)... as well as being trained by John Wernham himself in England.

When he was teaching the medical osteopathic students at PCOM.. he said that they were never truly interested in manual diagnosis/treatment and he was met with skepticism because they didn't believe it was possible. So he went to a school for the blind and borrowed some of their braille pieces and brought them to class. He put them in front of the students and asked them to read it... and they all admitted that they couldn't. They didn't understand where he was going with it Of course, he asked them that if he taught them how to read and interpret them if they would eventually understand?! :-)

[Bonez3]

I would say a good portion of my med school class was less than interested in OMM. Not uncommon. It's true that most choose DO schools because they didn't get into allopathic schools. One of the jokes I liked (although not really funny ) was that OMM was punishment for doing poorly on the MCATS.

Anyhow, I liked OMM and performed well on it. Now I'm in IM and really find it difficult to apply. Further, the more time that passes that I don't use it, I 'lose it' so to speak, and that's what happends to most DO's.

There is a definite role for CAM (complimentary & alt medicine) and OMM is in there. I think for a great portion of musculoskelatal pathology OMM prolly has as much efficacy as standard of care pharmacological interventions or act synergistically with them. I hope you do well with it in the future.